(02-25-2017, 01:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And a long list of teams that have done worse than the Bengals also have signed lots of high priced free agents.

But at least you will not blame Marvin for losing because he was never given the talent he needed, correct?  I mean you can't possibly rip Marvin for not being able to win with a loaded roster if you admit that the front office's refusal to sign top quality talent is the problem, right?

Done worse than the Bengals??? The  Bengals have he longest playoff winless drought in the NFL.

The Bengals are the absolute worst in the NFL at winning playoff games.

Come on man on the Marvin stuff. He's 0 and 7 in the playoffs. 7 times he's made it there and lost all 7.

I will say it's an organizational failure.

(02-25-2017, 03:59 PM)McC Wrote: What'd he make?  2 mil?  And was cut, right?  This is their bailiwick.  Sometimes, some of these guys pan out.  Great.  But how many of them do?  And certainly none of them have put us over the top.    The Bengals usually end up with guys no one else really wanted.

So you want us to sign expensive FAs? We tried that back in the days of Antwan Odom and Antonio Bryant. That didn't workout too well so we are trying plan B. It has worked better. 

(02-25-2017, 03:59 PM)McC Wrote: What'd he make?  2 mil?  And was cut, right?  This is their bailiwick.  Sometimes, some of these guys pan out.  Great.  But how many of them do?  And certainly none of them have put us over the top.    The Bengals usually end up with guys no one else really wanted.

Just imagine how good this team would have been 2 years ago...the 12-4 team if they actually had a good Center that they signed?

(02-25-2017, 04:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you want us to sign expensive FAs? We tried that back in the days of Antwan Odom and Antonio Bryant. That didn't workout too well so we are trying plan B. It has worked better. 

That's another straw man.

We want the Bengals to sign 1 or 2 top tier free agents.

Over the past 5 playoff appearances, the Bengals had a lot of cap space most years. The teams also had fatal flaws. Some couldn't cover TE's. Some had a bad center, etc.

Just imagine if they added that 1 Top 3 tier free to sure up a weak spot on the roster.

Instead...the Bengals haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

(02-25-2017, 04:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you want us to sign expensive FAs? We tried that back in the days of Antwan Odom and Antonio Bryant. That didn't workout too well so we are trying plan B. It has worked better. 

Did I say that anywhere?  Instead of a 2 mil 30ish guy, how about a 5 mil guy coming into his prime?  Cuz you were stupid a couple times, you pack it in?

Better than what?  No playoff wins then, none now.  I fail to see the difference.

The Bengals are always about comfort zone. If being in it won't get you there, maybe step outside it and see what happens.

(02-24-2017, 05:50 PM)J24 Wrote: You do understand that the majority of these big deals ends in complete failure and usually end up getting cut in a year or two into the deal. I am not saying don't  compete in free agency but it has been proven that  going all in during the first day is not a good strategy. There is nothing wrong with dumpster diving when it comes to free agency.

Do you TRY to block out the 40 years of failure or have you subconsciously created a block in your brain where shitty strategies that have 40 years of negative info behind them sound good to you?

As a small market team we have to do more than dumpster dive. Am I saying go to the extreme and pull a Miami Dolphins and sign 3 of the top 4 free agents like they did when they sign Mike Wallace and others? HELL NO


But dumpster diving as weve done for years is also an extreme that does not breed success. And its extremely cheap



There is absolutely something wrong with dumpster diving when you haven't won a playoff game since 1990 and the last time you were in the superbowl was when Jerry Rice and Joe Montana were still playing. Mike Clown is notoriously cheap and would rather pay his own average to mediocre vets above market deals to keep fans off his back rather than pay someone whose actually in their prime to come in here and make an impact.

(02-25-2017, 04:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you want us to sign expensive FAs? We tried that back in the days of Antwan Odom and Antonio Bryant. That didn't workout too well so we are trying plan B. It has worked better. 

So 2 failures in 40 years means never try it again?



Sounds like something a shitty organization would do



Oh wait this IS a shitty organization

nvm

(02-25-2017, 04:07 PM)McC Wrote: Did I say that anywhere?  Instead of a 2 mil 30ish guy, how about a 5 mil guy coming into his prime?  Cuz you were stupid a couple times, you pack it in?

Better than what?  No playoff wins then, none now.  I fail to see the difference.

The truth, just cause they made a couple mistakes doesn't mean you can't get it right once.

If we just brought back Whitworth, brought in a cheap FA like Wisnewski we would of improved.

If we did this and brought in a guy like Calais Campbell, shit.

We would instantly be a team the Steelers would not overlook anymore.

(02-25-2017, 01:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals have spent over the league salary cap for the last 2 years.

Ouch, maybe it really is hopeless then.

(02-25-2017, 04:07 PM)McC Wrote: Did I say that anywhere?  Instead of a 2 mil 30ish guy, how about a 5 mil guy coming into his prime?  Cuz you were stupid a couple times, you pack it in?

Better than what?  No playoff wins then, none now.  I fail to see the difference.

Yeah...that's another fallacy. EVERY Top 1-2-3 Tier free agent that we sign is going to turn into Antonio Bryant because it happened once.

Note: I don't consider Odom a Top Tier free agent as he was a backup most of his time with the Titans. We just paid him as if he were one. He had 12.5 sacks in 4 years in Tennessee.

Interesting thing on Odom...he's only 35 now. He was out of the league when he was 29.

(02-25-2017, 05:19 PM)Housh Wrote: Do you TRY to block out the 40 years of failure or have you subconsciously created a block in your brain where shitty strategies that have 40 years of negative info behind them sound good to you?

As a small market team we have to do more than dumpster dive. Am I saying go to the extreme and pull a Miami Dolphins and sign 3 of the top 4 free agents like they did when they sign Mike Wallace and others? HELL NO


But dumpster diving as weve done for years is also an extreme that does not breed success. And its extremely cheap



There is absolutely something wrong with dumpster diving when you haven't won a playoff game since 1990 and the last time you were in the superbowl was when Jerry Rice and Joe Montana were still playing. Mike Clown is notoriously cheap and would rather pay his own average to mediocre vets above market deals to keep fans off his back rather than pay someone whose actually in their prime to come in here and make an impact.

Exactly! And the Bengals put most of their emphasis on drafting...yet they have one of the smallest scouting departments in the NFL. (Next someone will chime in that our scouts are twice as good as the Patriots scouts so we don't need as many.) The truth of the drafting matter is that the Bengals had 2 great drafts (Dalton, Green, Boling, and Dunlap, Atkins) and a good draft before that with Maualuga, MJ, Huber, and Andre Smith. They've been living off of those drafts in reputation.

We haven't had a draft that I'd consider above average since 2012. These past 3 drafts have yielded very little...with the 2015 draft potentially being epically bad. (A 3rd Round pick in the 2015 draft - PJ Dawson was waived already. He was a Comp Pick too.)

Maybe that small scouting department hurts them in evaluating free agent fits too? Maybe that's why a guy like Antonio Bryant doesn't get checked out when he has a major knee injury?

I wouldn't exactly say the Steelers are big spenders in free agency, but guys they bring in like Mike Mitchell usually always pan out. They have A LOT more scouts than we do.

(02-25-2017, 05:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The truth, just cause they made a couple mistakes doesn't mean you can't get it right once.

If we just brought back Whitworth, brought in a cheap FA like Wisnewski we would of improved.

If we did this and brought in a guy like Calais Campbell, shit.

We would instantly be a team the Steelers would not overlook anymore.

They'll likely sign a guy that got waived like Nick Mangold who made 6 or 7 Pro Bowls and was a dominant Center and fans will start talking Super Bowl. That will be our AJ Hawk or Dansby signing.

And Mangold may be an upgrade to Bodine as he is so bad.

Mangold has 11 years of NFL wear and tear on his body and missed 8 games last year.

That will be the Bengals aging veteran with a big name signing.

(02-25-2017, 05:21 PM)Housh Wrote: So 2 failures in 40 years means never try it again?



Sounds like something a shitty organization would do



Oh wait this IS a shitty organization

nvm

Here's a fact...modern free agency in the NFL began in 1992. Before that, players just didn't switch teams as much. The CBA then made it more conducive.

The Bengals haven't won a single playoff game since modern free agency began.

(02-25-2017, 04:07 PM)McC Wrote: Did I say that anywhere?  Instead of a 2 mil 30ish guy, how about a 5 mil guy coming into his prime?  Cuz you were stupid a couple times, you pack it in?

Better than what?  No playoff wins then, none now.  I fail to see the difference.

Sure you said it, when you countered the LaFell signing with how much he costed. Folks have given plenty examples of players we've brought in. It's just folks are happy, so they'll move the target. We recently brought in Michael Johnson and he was one of the top DEs available that year. Matter of fact he chose us over Minny. 

The thing is folks have to pick one thing to complain about to make their point(s) valid. As we have witnessed in this very thread folks are mad with 4 comp picks in the upcoming draft. We have been one of the more successful/competitive organizations in the NFL the last few years. But if an outsider came into this forum they would swear we are looking up at the cellar dwellers every year. 

(02-25-2017, 06:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They'll likely sign a guy that got waived like Nick Mangold who made 6 or 7 Pro Bowls and was a dominant Center and fans will start talking Super Bowl. That will be our AJ Hawk or Dansby signing.

And Mangold may be an upgrade to Bodine as he is so bad.

Mangold has 11 years of NFL wear and tear on his body and missed 8 games last year.

That will be the Bengals aging veteran with a big name signing.

Yeah, this looks likely, just have to hope Mangold has something left.

(02-25-2017, 07:23 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, this looks likely, just have to hope Mangold has something left.

We do it every year and get our hopes up and the guys usually have nothing left in the tank or very little.

With that said...Bodine is so bad that Mangold at 50% of what he once was is probably still a sizeable upgrade.

(02-25-2017, 08:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We do it every year and get our hopes up and the guys usually have nothing left in the tank or very little.

With that said...Bodine is so bad that Mangold at 50% of what he once was is probably still a sizeable upgrade.

True, normally i would be pumped for this pickup but from the past you have to temper expectations.

Still, would be solid.

We add a young Center in the draft to be coached up like Elfein, Toth, Orlovski etc and the future has some reason to be seen.

But we all know PA has to be replaced by someone decent for us to see something great.

I said it before but when i watched Bodine at NC he looked to be a decent Guard. He might have some value, just not at Center.

(02-24-2017, 07:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I assume we just let them walk to keep costs down. Acting like you give a crap about comp picks is a nice way to keep fans off your ass...for a while.

Bingo.

(02-25-2017, 03:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What do you consider Brandon LaFell?

A cheaper replacement for Marvin Jones and/or Sanu?

(02-25-2017, 04:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So you want us to sign expensive FAs? We tried that back in the days of Antwan Odom and Antonio Bryant. That didn't workout too well so we are trying plan B. It has worked better. 

I see. So once you make a couple dumb signings that don't work out, you should forever swear off mid-tier FA's? Someone should let the Patriots know.

Btw, Odom and Bryant were also cheaper replacements for players that left (Justin and Housh).

(02-25-2017, 04:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Just imagine how good this team would have been 2 years ago...the 12-4 team if they actually had a good Center that they signed?

Not a good argument. Andy still throws that pick, he still breaks his thumb, and oir season is still lost.

(02-25-2017, 04:07 PM)McC Wrote: Did I say that anywhere?  Instead of a 2 mil 30ish guy, how about a 5 mil guy coming into his prime?  Cuz you were stupid a couple times, you pack it in?

Better than what?  No playoff wins then, none now.  I fail to see the difference.

Seems to work well for the packers with lack of free agent signings.

(02-25-2017, 06:13 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: They'll likely sign a guy that got waived like Nick Mangold who made 6 or 7 Pro Bowls and was a dominant Center and fans will start talking Super Bowl. That will be our AJ Hawk or Dansby signing.

And Mangold may be an upgrade to Bodine as he is so bad.

Mangold has 11 years of NFL wear and tear on his body and missed 8 games last year.

That will be the Bengals aging veteran with a big name signing.

Hell bring back jeff saturday. He would be an upgrade.