(07-26-2015, 11:39 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd try to hang on to Leake (he's having a slightly down year - which could lower his price) and trade Bruce, Chappy and Byrd.

If we manage to keep Leake and load up on prospects, this team could go right back to contending in 1-2 years.

I'd so love to see them unload Bruce but I'm hoping there's some way they can hang onto Chapman.

GM should be fired! They got peanuts for an All-Star caliber player. Sad day to be a Reds fan. I've been one for 44 years.

(07-27-2015, 02:14 AM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: GM should be fired! They got peanuts for an All-Star caliber player. Sad day to be a Reds fan. I've been one for 44 years.

An all star caliber player who is a free agent next year and we had no chance to re-sign him.

What value would his 11 starts in the 2nd half this year give us?

We got a former first round pick who has already proven he can pitch in the majors.

And two additional high upside pitchers.

How is that peanuts?

It looks like the Reds did Johnny wrong. This is terrible news for this franchise and for Price. How in the sam hell do you not tell your homegrown all-star he has been traded before anyone else?

Beyond that, I don't mind the prospects we got back. We got Finnegan until 2020 before Arb rights kick in. That's nice. He should be a solid # 4 pitcher or so.

(07-27-2015, 12:15 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd so love to see them unload Bruce but I'm hoping there's some way they can hang onto Chapman.

No way no how. He should will give us a better return than most players we have to offer, and it's not like he's to valuable when we're losing 8-3, 7-2 most games.  

(07-27-2015, 08:14 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: An all star caliber player who is a free agent next year and we had no chance to re-sign him.

What value would his 11 starts in the 2nd half this year give us?

We got a former first round pick who has already proven he can pitch in the majors.

And two additional high upside pitchers.

How is that peanuts?

They should have given the money to Johnny instead of Homer and everyone that knows anything about baseball knows that. How's the big league/big hyped prospect Lorenzen fairing? I'll tell you how; -32 in FBB in his last outing. How about Axelrod?...-28 in FBB. DeScalfani?  None of these kids have done enough to prove anything at the next level. Look I'm not saying that one or two of these kids won't pan out but I am upset about losing the teams best starter.

If I'm trading Chapman, I want a team's # 1 or #2 position player prospect. They get him the rest of this year, the post season, and all of next year.

(07-27-2015, 04:26 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: They should have given the money to Johnny instead of Homer and everyone that knows anything about baseball knows that. How's the big league/big hyped prospect Lorenzen fairing? I'll tell you how; -32 in FBB in his last outing. How about Axelrod?...-28 in FBB. DeScalfani?  None of these kids have done enough to prove anything at the next level. Look I'm not saying that one or two of these kids won't pan out but I am upset about losing the teams best starter.

Well that's a separate issue. You're living in the past.

In the here and now, with Homer signed and no money for Cueto, this was a great trade.

(07-27-2015, 12:15 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'd so love to see them unload Bruce but I'm hoping there's some way they can hang onto Chapman.

I love Chappy, but he's our most valuable trade piece. They could get more for him than they got for Cueto, mainly because he has 1.5 years left on an affordable contract. A losing team with the best closer in baseball is like having nice wheels on a junk car. As great as Chappy is, we're better off loading up on good prospects.

(07-27-2015, 09:19 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: It looks like the Reds did Johnny wrong. This is terrible news for this franchise and for Price. How in the sam hell do you not tell your homegrown all-star he has been traded before anyone else?

Beyond that, I don't mind the prospects we got back. We got Finnegan until 2020 before Arb rights kick in. That's nice. He should be a solid # 4 pitcher or so.

Yeah that was bush league how he found out. Not classy at all. Not only was it shameful that the Reds didn't tell him, I also think it was an a-hole move for Cingrani to just casually tell him like that. Shame on both the Reds FO and Cingrani.

As for the haul we got in return, I love the fact that these guys all have 4-5 years of control left. We could have cheap starters and relievers for years to come.

(07-27-2015, 05:04 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Well that's a separate issue. You're living in the past.

In the here and now, with Homer signed and no money for Cueto, this was a great trade.

It was not a great trade!  It may be an ok trade but that is yet to be determined. A friend of mine who is a lifelong KC fan was at the game in KC the day the trade was made. I informed her of it while she was at the game. Her and her family were ecstatic!! They are all very knowledgeable baseball fans and they weren't upset in the least with the players they lost to aquire JC.
That tells me plenty about this trade.

(07-27-2015, 05:11 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: It was not a great trade!  It may be an ok trade but that is yet to be determined. A friend of mine who is a lifelong KC fan was at the game in KC the day the trade was made. I informed her of it while she was at the game. Her and her family were ecstatic!! They are all very knowledgeable baseball fans and they weren't upset in the least with the players they lost to aquire JC.
That tells me plenty about this trade.

They were ecstatic because Cueto will give them a chance to win a world series and they were probably happy to give up the players to get that chance.

So to them, Cueto = World Series.

Of course they'd be thrilled with that.

But they aren't going to keep Cueto after this year.

Neither would we.

If we kept him, we'd be walked away with a comp first round pick.

These three players are better than that comp pick.

As a rental trade, we weren't going to get a #1 prospect for Cueto. That isn't how rental trades work.

So, maybe you are looking at the trade as "Great talent to KC, good talent to CIN"  and considering it uneven, but we get to keep that good talent. They lose that great talent. We weren't going to get long term great talent for short term great talent. 

I'm sorry you were unhappy that we traded a guy who wasn't going to remain on the team nor would we gain anything from him being on the team for the rest of this year, but it was a good trade, if not a great trade.

It's hard to quantify prospects because so many of them are long term and must work out in order for them to reach their potential. But I guarantee at least 1 of these players will be a solid contributor to the Reds in the next few years. I expect 2 of them to be long term Reds fixtures, either in the bullpen or in the back of the starting rotation.

(07-27-2015, 05:32 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: They were ecstatic because Cueto will give them a chance to win a world series and they were probably happy to give up the players to get that chance.

So to them, Cueto = World Series.

Of course they'd be thrilled with that.

But they aren't going to keep Cueto after this year.

Neither would we.

If we kept him, we'd be walked away with a comp first round pick.

These three players are better than that comp pick.

As a rental trade, we weren't going to get a #1 prospect for Cueto. That isn't how rental trades work.

So, maybe you are looking at the trade as "Great talent to KC, good talent to CIN"  and considering it uneven, but we get to keep that good talent. They lose that great talent. We weren't going to get long term great talent for short term great talent. 

I'm sorry you were unhappy that we traded a guy who wasn't going to remain on the team nor would we gain anything from him being on the team for the rest of this year, but it was a good trade, if not a great trade.

It's hard to quantify prospects because so many of them are long term and must work out in order for them to reach their potential. But I guarantee at least 1 of these players will be a solid contributor to the Reds in the next few years. I expect 2 of them to be long term Reds fixtures, either in the bullpen or in the back of the starting rotation.

We're on the same page brother. I am a fairly knowledgeable baseball fan ask Pinheads he can confirm that. We should be in contention for a WS as well but this GM is doing a poor job imho. Glad to have the prospects and I completely agree and see your point. However, not at all happy with management and the direction they are taking.  You seem to be ok with rebuilding what was a team on the cusp of a championship just 3 years ago.
At the moment I'm none to thrilled about it.

(07-27-2015, 05:43 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: We're on the same page brother. I am a fairly knowledgeable baseball fan ask Pinheads he can confirm that. We should be in contention for a WS as well but this GM is doing a poor job imho. Glad to have the prospects and I completely agree and see your point. However, not at all happy with management and the direction they are taking.  You seem to be ok with rebuilding what was a team on the cusp of a championship just 3 years ago.
At the moment I'm none to thrilled about it.

I see what you're saying. In retrospect, Bailey was a dumbass move. But then again, so was Phillips. But you can't dwell on the past.  I'm just glad we got something for him.

I was expecting one of two things to happen:
1. We don't trade him. Get a comp pick in the draft and don't see that player produce for 3 to 4 years, if ever.
2. We wait too long, Hamels, Kazmir and Samardzija get traded and we're left picking up left overs from whoever will have us.

So getting three guys with real potential was very exciting for me.

I am bummed too that we seemed to fail so astronomically, and I think the management is pretty terrible, especially Brian "*****" Price, but I was very pleased with the return on this trade.

Now we need to trade Leake for a solid offensive player and we can maybe get back on track in a few years.

(07-26-2015, 01:07 PM)kevin Wrote: OK, it just came on internet as an unofficial, but kind of official report by Fox News that it looks like Royals just got Cueto.......Well, the Royals and the Pirates and Tampa suffered in last place for decades, so I love it when the small market fans catch a break. Royals already having a great year, and Cueto could win them the World Series. Good for those long suffering fans. A great baseball town of The Kansas City Monarchs and great Negro League legends not allowed in all white MLB before Mr. Jackie Robinson...I think Satchel Paige was a KC Monarch and also Buck O'Neill. ......Kansas City was such a small market door mat the last few decades, I'm happy for their fans having a good year.

Is St. Louis a small market team?  Cause KC is a bigger city than St. Louis, population wise, and almost 2 times as big as Cincy.  Difference between a  small market team and a team that does not spend.

(07-27-2015, 05:32 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: They were ecstatic because Cueto will give them a chance to win a world series and they were probably happy to give up the players to get that chance.

So to them, Cueto = World Series.

Of course they'd be thrilled with that.

But they aren't going to keep Cueto after this year.

Neither would we.

If we kept him, we'd be walked away with a comp first round pick.

These three players are better than that comp pick.

As a rental trade, we weren't going to get a #1 prospect for Cueto. That isn't how rental trades work.

So, maybe you are looking at the trade as "Great talent to KC, good talent to CIN"  and considering it uneven, but we get to keep that good talent. They lose that great talent. We weren't going to get long term great talent for short term great talent. 

I'm sorry you were unhappy that we traded a guy who wasn't going to remain on the team nor would we gain anything from him being on the team for the rest of this year, but it was a good trade, if not a great trade.

It's hard to quantify prospects because so many of them are long term and must work out in order for them to reach their potential. But I guarantee at least 1 of these players will be a solid contributor to the Reds in the next few years. I expect 2 of them to be long term Reds fixtures, either in the bullpen or in the back of the starting rotation.

All accounts that I have read said we got good value in the trade.  That's great considering we would have gotten basically nothing next season, so I can't be mad about that.  Cueto was probably the best pitcher I've ever seen pitch here, but no way we were re-signing him next year.  Now if they could only get some decent pieces for Chapman and Leake...

(07-27-2015, 05:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I love Chappy, but he's our most valuable trade piece. They could get more for him than they got for Cueto, mainly because he has 1.5 years left on an affordable contract. A losing team with the best closer in baseball is like having nice wheels on a junk car. As great as Chappy is, we're better off loading up on good prospects.

Yeah that was bush league how he found out. Not classy at all. Not only was it shameful that the Reds didn't tell him, I also think it was an a-hole move for Cingrani to just casually tell him like that. Shame on both the Reds FO and Cingrani.

As for the haul we got in return, I love the fact that these guys all have 4-5 years of control left. We could have cheap starters and relievers for years to come.

Oh I know. I'm sure we're pretty much in for a fairly large scale rebuild. I just keep hoping beyond hope that somehow we can plug in a couple position players and contend next year. Unrealistic, I know.

(07-27-2015, 04:26 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: They should have given the money to Johnny instead of Homer and everyone that knows anything about baseball knows that. 

At the time they gave Bailey that contract Cueto was coming off an injury riddled season.  Even I thought he might never be an effective starter again.

(07-29-2015, 11:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: At the time they gave Bailey that contract Cueto was coming off an injury riddled season.  Even I thought he might never be an effective starter again.

That Bailey contract is brutal no matter what was going on with Cueto at the time.

Homer isn't bad, but that contract is/was, uh......let's call it interesting.

(07-28-2015, 09:50 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: All accounts that I have read said we got good value in the trade.  That's great considering we would have gotten basically nothing next season, so I can't be mad about that.  Cueto was probably the best pitcher I've ever seen pitch here, but no way we were re-signing him next year.  Now if they could only get some decent pieces for Chapman and Leake...

We got good value mainly because we have control of them thru their prime years. Now if we can pull a Cardinal thing and get one or maybe two to become upper-echelon players, well.....  

I am excited to see what we get for Chappy as well. I'm hoping for a top 50 (say LF or CF player) and maybe another young, promising RP.

Royals fan's are ecstatic after JC's debut in KC tonight. Yea! Cincy got unproven prospects and the Royals got an ace..blah,blah, I've heard it already. Two years removed from a Cincy pennant run this fire sale makes me feel sooo good right now and I'm just chomping at the bit to go out buy season tickets and Reds gear right now.
I wonder who's jersey I should buy? Hmmm...I'm thinking nobody that will be on the roster for next season.