(03-04-2017, 05:35 PM)kevin Wrote: I really think Bengal Fans over rate this as if every team in the NFL wants to trade a first round pick for our 5th round pick back up QB, so they can bench their QB and make McCarron their Franchise QB for the next 10 years.  What has he done so fantastic and wonderful to fill Fans heads with this notion.  I will add he is low cost in 2017 and gives us a better back-up than the clunkers we became use to.  Remember all the raving about that QB that could run a little but no passing arm. I think his name was Jackson or something.  Just what you need a QB that can't throw. Look, this isn't college.  We have McCarron who is a great back-up. Probably his last year here. If Dalton gets injured we will regret trading him.  He isn't costing much money to keep him one more year. 

If dalton gets injured our season is over anyways so why keep him when u can get better than a 4th rounder for him. Dalton hadnt missed a sibgle game until he got injured so i doubt he geta injured anyways

I think AJ is better than many give him credit. Also, in the few games he played, we seen glimpses of improvement. The thing is, when you throw a backup qb in there, he doesn't just settle in after the first game. It takes a good 1/2 season to gain your confidence and even longer to gain the rapport and timing of your receivers. I think good teams know this and will value AJ much higher than we do. I hate to see him go because if the OL doesn't get fixed, we are going to need him. Yet, like many have said, after next year we get nothing for him and he walks. This angle is also known by the other teams who may want AJ. Patience will be key here in getting a deal done for an AJ trade. However, not the kind of patience we have seen in the past where we do nothing. Doing nothing with AJ is similar to playing Russian roulette with 6 bullets in the chamber.

(03-04-2017, 03:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The team that gets McCarron better have a good O-line. If he has time he could be really good actually.

I never played QB, but I would guess making quicker reads is one of those things that can only be improved by playing more snaps.

Or not.  Some QBs just never get it.

That is why teams are having such a hard time judging guys like McCarron and Garopollo.  They've only thrown about 100 passes each.  

(03-04-2017, 03:30 PM)phil413 Wrote: The upside of dealing for AJ is you get him for pennies, 

Rep.

To me this is why NFL teams love to get guys still on their rookie contracts.  McCarron will make less then $700K this year.  So while trading for a guy with only about 100 career attempts is a gamble, money wise it is the safest thing to do, assuming you don't give up a first round pick.

Judging college QBs is very difficult.  Every year there are high draft picks that flop.  Some are drafted too high based on desperation, but even good teams have a hard time finding a good backup.

(03-04-2017, 06:45 PM)phil413 Wrote: Cleveland's #52 or 65 makes sense value wise and a conditional pick next year.  Hue saw him firsthand, and they have a lot of picks. 

To me this is what it all boils down to.

1.  That #52 pick is the Brown's fourth pick in the draft.  Most bad teams have a couple of big holes they want to fill with their first 2 picks.  The Browns would be able to address 3 big needs in the first 33 picks and still get McCarron

2.  The Hue connection.  I think this is a big point Jim was trying to make in his excellent article.

(03-04-2017, 06:45 PM)phil413 Wrote:   Regardless, Cincy is doing nothing wrong by letting the market come to them and they do have plenty of suitors as you say. 

Rep.  

Bengals often get ripped for not going "all in" and looking to the future instead of trying to "win now".  But if the team really feels it is in a position to win now they should keep McCarron unless they get some ridiculous offer including a first rounder or multiple good picks.

First,
Thank you all, as always, for taking the time to read and share and then getting into this discussion in such a measured way. If any of you listen to our BBP or follow me on Twitter you know how I get kind of crazy with the fanatical “AJ McCarron guy” that is out there. This is perhaps the best discussion I’ve seen on this topic in what is about to become my third season covering the team. Thank you for that

@BengalChris - In the NFL, talent holes around a QB can prevent that QB's success. 

Definitely. So many horror stories. McCarron/Garoppolo would gladly take the starting job in Cle or SF believing they’re good enough to turn it around (just like the head coaches) but the evidence suggests they’d just get snowed under.

@Kevin - What has he done so fantastic and wonderful to fill Fans heads with this notion.  I will add he is low cost in 2017 and gives us a better back-up than the clunkers we became use to.

I’m in this boat. He did OK in his first NFL action. He was a true rookie. Did OK. Think about it: that Bengals team was going to the Super Bowl with Dalton. I firmly believe that. McCarron beat a bad 49ers team and a Ravens club that was playing out the string. He’ll always have the “but the Bengals were on the verge of winning a playoff game!” And that alone is enough to make people think “what if.” He directed that drive. He made that throw to Green. He’ll always have that. But in the end, think of how good that ’15 team was. And it still ended up where it did. I personally like McCarron. I think if he went to a team with a solid RB and line, he could have some success. But toss him in that Browns backfield? Oy. It’s why Jackson hasn’t pushed for that deal, IMO.

@Nate -  AJM will have it even worse cause he holds onto the ball for fricking ever from what we saw when he did start

Smart football watching and memory.

We should get something for the guy why he has some value.

This.

@Phil413 - Hue saw him firsthand, and they have a lot of picks.

Yet haven’t called with a suitable offer. What does that say? Maybe he would do it for a 5th. Maye?
They carried Driskel all year for a reason, but he came in the week before Week 1. He has never run the Bengals offense. Only scout team and throwing to a stationary receiver on game days. He is a total unknown, outside of fitting the physical profile. Makes me think they might take McCarron into camp unless someone wows them.

@McC - I don't know how good he would end up being but I like his heart and that is a big deal.

I’ll have a story coming up in a couple weeks where McCarron talks to me about this. He knows his physical limitations. But he truly believes his heart/competitiveness is an X-factor. As our own columnist Paul Daugherty wrote this fall, McCarron definitely has “it.” But honestly – it takes more than that to win games consistently in the NFL. We’ll all know in the near future.

@fredtoast - I never played QB, but I would guess making quicker reads is one of those things that can only be improved by playing more snaps.

Or not.  Some QBs just never get it.

Ding. Here’s some background for you on this story that didn’t make it:

Kyle Shanahan, on what he’s looking for on tape in a QB:

“Really how quick they process things. You can tell talking to people who’s capable of processing a lot, but the smartest people aren’t always the best quarterbacks either. You can over-process things. It’s how quick they react in pocket. Do they watch the rush? Are they fearless? If they’re watching the rush at all and things like that, it’s very hard to make the reactions you need to make in this league with how quick those windows close. You want to see how quick their decisions-making is – not on the board, but in the pocket when they’re under duress.”

(03-05-2017, 12:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I never played QB, but I would guess making quicker reads is one of those things that can only be improved by playing more snaps.

Or not.  Some QBs just never get it.

That is why teams are having such a hard time judging guys like McCarron and Garopollo.  They've only thrown about 100 passes each.  

Very true, cannot disagree with this.

It is a gamble, but i think a QB needy team would be willing to take a gamble on either of these guys.

One thing McCarron has going for him over Garopollo is he wasn't in Belichick's system, all of their QB's look good.

My take is dealing for AJ is almost the same as taking a guy in the draft. You really don't know how it's gonna work. You have some limited tape on AJ to go off of and that's more than any potential first rounder. Some teams that might be enough to want to make a deal for him, others may lean towards just going for a rookie. I would say that having his rights for an extra year makes a deal for him more attractive. This years draft class is pretty bad, but next years will be a lot better. The time to deal AJ would be now. I don't buy the whole "Were not actively shopping AJ", yeah they may not be calling teams to make deals, but it's no big secret that we've made him available.