(03-04-2017, 02:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sucks they have the worst O-line coach in the league though 

We actually have one of the better O-line coaches in the league.

(03-06-2017, 11:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: We actually have one of the better O-line coaches in the league.

Well, he must be having a bad four years then, cuz the last two of "his guys" have been utter failures.  The book might not be closed on CedO but it really looks like it is on Jefro.  And you can't exactly put Fisher down as a feather in PA's cap yet either.

Coaching is like playing in that, just because you were good, that doesn't necessarily mean you still are.

(03-04-2017, 05:11 PM)J24 Wrote: Fisher and Winston were not nearly as bad as It was before it. Of course Fisher had his share of issues but he played much better than og and still has upside. Also Andre Smith was rated a 39 last season by PFF  so he still wasn't good but in fairness better than OG.

Right, but I was comparing the 2015 Bengals o line to the 2016 Bengals o line.  Andre Smith in 2015 was better than Ced/Fish/Winston in 2016.  Winston played hard, and wasn't too bad....just a little ways past his prime.  I liked the bit of improvement we saw from Fish near the end of the season, if he can continue to build upon that....we should be ok at RT.

(03-06-2017, 11:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: We actually have one of the better O-line coaches in the league.

No way Fred, you even admitted that he wasn't that good in your thread.

What he has done with Bodine is coach him into one of the worst starting Centers in the league.

Probably the worst starting Center. He had us trade up for this guy, his call, his coaching. Terrible pick and we have
yet to even attempt to improve this position even with Bodine stinking up the place. As a matter of fact he called it
a witch hunt when fans and analysts pointed out this poor play, no accountability just favoritism.

Then he starts Ogbuehi last year when he clearly was not ready to start. Og single handedly pretty much destroys
our season early and PA continues to start him. This should of gotten PA fired. It is bad enough you don't coach the
first round pick up into something even remotely decent but to then continue to start him to the detriment of the
team is beyond words.

Fisher also went from being a promising rookie to looking bad last year under PA.

PA might of done well in the past in coaching up pass protection but as of late he has been one of if not THE worst
Offensive Line coaches in the NFL. The worst run blocking coach and has made the worst decisions lately.

(03-06-2017, 12:58 PM)Wyche Wrote: Right, but I was comparing the 2015 Bengals o line to the 2016 Bengals o line.  Andre Smith in 2015 was better than Ced/Fish/Winston in 2016.  Winston played hard, and wasn't too bad....just a little ways past his prime.  I liked the bit of improvement we saw from Fish near the end of the season, if he can continue to build upon that....we should be ok at RT.

My bad 2015 Andre Smith was rated a 39 by PFF not last season.

(03-06-2017, 03:20 PM)J24 Wrote: My bad 2015 Andre Smith was rated a 39 by PFF not last season.

Ahhh, I must say, that is surprising.....I would not have thought that.  We know how Ced ranked, but do you have any PFF numbers on Fish and Winston from last season?  I'm curious to see how vastly improved they were over Ogbuehi.  Thanks for the clarification.  I guess Og was SO bad, he made Smith look better (in my mind) than he actually was!

Still no deal in place and starting tomorrow, other teams can begin negotiating with Whit's agent.

I'm officially concerned. 

(03-06-2017, 03:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Still no deal in place and starting tomorrow, other teams can begin negotiating with Whit's agent.

I'm officially concerned. 

Need him signed today for heck sake!

Do it.

(03-06-2017, 03:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: No way Fred, you even admitted that he wasn't that good in your thread.

What he has done with Bodine is coach him into one of the worst starting Centers in the league.

Probably the worst starting Center. He had us trade up for this guy, his call, his coaching. Terrible pick and we have
yet to even attempt to improve this position even with Bodine stinking up the place. As a matter of fact he called it
a witch hunt when fans and analysts pointed out this poor play, no accountability just favoritism.

Then he starts Ogbuehi last year when he clearly was not ready to start. Og single handedly pretty much destroys
our season early and PA continues to start him. This should of gotten PA fired. It is bad enough you don't coach the
first round pick up into something even remotely decent but to then continue to start him to the detriment of the
team is beyond words.

Fisher also went from being a promising rookie to looking bad last year under PA.

PA might of done well in the past in coaching up pass protection but as of late he has been one of if not THE worst
Offensive Line coaches in the NFL. The worst run blocking coach and has made the worst decisions lately.

Unfortunately, I don't know how much of that is PA and how much is Marvin. Given that we have a tendency not to pull players until it's too late, I've never laid that on PA's doorstep. Same with the drafting. We've had a few unimpressive years... hard to just throw all that on the position coaches. Some, sure.

(03-06-2017, 04:08 PM)Benton Wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know how much of that is PA and how much is Marvin. Given that we have a tendency not to pull players until it's too late, I've never laid that on PA's doorstep. Same with the drafting. We've had a few unimpressive years... hard to just throw all that on the position coaches. Some, sure.

That is true. We can't really know for sure but i am pretty sure it is a mixture of both of them.

We have some good coaches though. Geunther, Urban and Simmons to name a few. The thing is it happens there too.

With Geunther, Peko and MJ start ahead of players that are aguably better in Sims and Clarke last year. Maualuga started
last year and was terrible. But atleast Paulie G turned it around after the bye and is why i think he is a good coach, Paulie
makes adjustments and will change it up if it is not working.

Urban had Core waiting in the wings and not even dressing almost all season when we clearly needed a deep threat.

Core comes in late and impresses just like many of us thought he might.

I don't find these moves to be a coincidence. Have to blame the HC most of all.

(03-06-2017, 04:08 PM)Benton Wrote: Unfortunately, I don't know how much of that is PA and how much is Marvin. Given that we have a tendency not to pull players until it's too late, I've never laid that on PA's doorstep. Same with the drafting. We've had a few unimpressive years... hard to just throw all that on the position coaches. Some, sure.

I'd say you can put it on a position coach if he stood on the table for the guy.  He went to bat for guys at the two most important spots on the line and was wrong on both.  I'm saying that gets him a big hunk of blame.

And he's not just a position coach.  He's the Assistant HC. He got this title when Marvin got the job.  I'd say he carries a lot of weight, both literally and figuratively. 

Hopefully, he has stopped judging OLinemen by how easily they can knock his old weeble ass over, at least.

(03-06-2017, 04:33 PM)McC Wrote: I'd say you can put it on a position coach if he stood on the table for the guy.  He went to bat for guys at the two most important spots on the line and was wrong on both.  I'm saying that gets him a big hunk of blame.

And he's not just a position coach.  He's the Assistant HC. He got this title when Marvin got the job.  I'd say he carries a lot of weight, both literally and figuratively. 

Hopefully, he has stopped judging OLinemen by how easily they can knock his old weeble ass over, at least.

All true, very frustrating.

It's good news, but if it was one of the other I would have signed big Z

(03-06-2017, 11:27 AM)fredtoast Wrote: We actually have one of the better O-line coaches in the league.

You are one of the most informed posters on this board and you know more about this stuff than me - but do you really believe this?

Maybe 10 years ago, but not now.

Year after year the Steelers defense easily handles our o line and they have been controlled to dominated in every one of Marvin's playoff losses.

(03-06-2017, 05:19 PM)bengals67 Wrote: You are one of the most informed posters on this board and you know more about this stuff than me - but do you really believe this?

Maybe 10 years ago, but not now.

Year after year the Steelers defense easily handles our o line and they have been controlled to dominated in every one of Marvin's playoff losses.

I don't think he really does believe that.

Especially after last year even Fred is starting to question PA a touch.

(03-06-2017, 03:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Still no deal in place and starting tomorrow, other teams can begin negotiating with Whit's agent.

I'm officially concerned. 

You should be.

(03-06-2017, 05:34 PM)Wyche Wrote: You should be.

If we lose Whit this team will start to implode. The only player that i could see even playing LT on this
team is Fisher and he just came off a bad year. We will have to add a LT in FA or draft Cam Robinson at
9 which takes us out of the BPA conversation so we can get a good pass rusher.

This would be such a terrible mistake in so many ways.

(03-06-2017, 05:34 PM)Wyche Wrote: You should be.

 Nah, Marvin assured us everything if fine...





Seriously though, I hope like hell they get something worked out with Whit, because the thought of this O-line without him and Zeitler is frightening.

(03-06-2017, 06:03 PM)Bengalholic Wrote:  Nah, Marvin assured us everything if fine...





Seriously though, I hope like hell they get something worked out with Whit, because the thought of this O-line without him and Zeitler is frightening.

Trying not to think about that, thank you very much.

(03-06-2017, 03:51 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Still no deal in place and starting tomorrow, other teams can begin negotiating with Whit's agent.

I'm officially concerned. 

Why does anyone expect anything signed before he is officially able to gauge his value on the market?

I'm quite certain his agent is going to collect the offer values and take them back to the FO to see what can be done to match them.