I thought this might have played into it as well...

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/1/2/1908973/schefter-marvin-lewis-demanding-upgraded-training-facilities-and

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5981214

I do recall this happening. Marvin was demanding an upgrade to the practice facilities and was sort of holding out on signing his extension BEFORE Carson's issues came to light. Again, this may be speculation, but it seemed like Marvin Lewis demanded changes or he was going to walk and then once he caved in Carson wanted to be traded.

Doesn't anyone remember this? Unless it's an outright lie I have to say it is kind of odd Bengals fans are so supporting of Marvin stomping his foot and making demands when we hold such things against Carson. Then again, Marvin folded like a good employee and we all seem to have forgotten that he threatened to "quit" on the Bengals, as well.

Maybe Carson wanted out because Marvin got an extension. Maybe Carson wanted out because Marvin caved in on his (their?) demands. Maybe the whole thing with Marvin wasn't true or was blown out of proportion. Who knows, I just think it's interesting this aspect never got more attention.

(07-28-2015, 04:54 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Do you guys think it was only about coaches or about players as well? Do you think he maybe was against the T.O. signing and wanted Chad gone as well?

Definitely the coaches (most likely Marv). I'm pretty sure it's fairly obvious by now, but what happened happened. Nothing we can do about it now.

I strongly believe the main reason CP9 quit was because ML was staying ! But I'd say he wasn't happy with a lot of other things as well, Brat, not going after this player or that in FA, and on and on.

(07-28-2015, 06:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would anybody believe a word this guy says?

If memory serves the preseason before he quit was the preseason of the lockout (moves couldn't be made).

He was here for more than 1 season.  They really didn't do much to improve the team via free agency.  That 2005 team was a couple players away from being a perennial power.

(07-28-2015, 09:08 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: He was here for more than 1 season.  They really didn't do much to improve the team via free agency.  That 2005 team was a couple players away from being a perennial power.

The crazy thing is they probably did more via FA back then than now. Folks that come to mind:

Roy Williams
Tank Johnson
Ben Utecth
Antonio Bryant
Lavereus Coles
Ced Benson
Terrell Owens
Antonio Chatman
Antwan Odom

(07-28-2015, 09:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The crazy thing is they probably did more via FA back then than now. Folks that come to mind:

Roy Williams
Tank Johnson
Ben Utecth
Antonio Bryant
Lavereus Coles
Ced Benson
Terrell Owens
Antonio Chatman
Antwan Odom

There's a who's who of great free agency signings.

(07-28-2015, 05:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I remember a reporter asking Carson if he thought the Bengals could win with the current coaches in place (this was after 2008) and he said "no". It was unusually bold for Palmer to say that.

When Marv was brought back after 2010, Palmer was asked for his thoughts and said "no comment". It seems pretty clear to me that his problem was with either Marv or Brat. Or both.

It has to be Marvin. Brat was let go at the end of January and Marvin stayed. If he was loyal to Marvin as in had trust in him to take them all the way, then I can't see him or any player of any sport wanting to retire.

Personally I am fine with Carson these days. I dont hold any grudges against him and I hope he lights it up next year taking the Cards deep (if healthy that is a team to watch).  He gave the Bengals front office a monstrous middle finger, and he had every right to do so. I don't like my employer at all, and not a fan of the direction they seem to be taking which is just nowhere. So yeah, I can definitively relate to a point on being frustrated with the job. And since I dont like MB anyways, I'm fine with it.

Too many people are mad at Carson like a bad breakup with a girlfriend. For me it was obvious he was very unhappy with the front office rewarding Marvin with an extension after a miserable season (these extensions seem to continue don't they? Hey Marvin you lost your 6th playoff..extension!!! I digress) Carson has been training his ENTIRE life to be on a winning Super Bowl team. So why should he stick with a front office that is happy with just being competitive. He wanted more and I don't blame him. I wished he never left because he was one of my favorite players on the team, but hold no animosity towards him for wanting more. If you trained your entire life for a goal and someone was holding you back for a shot at it Im sure you would want to move on too.

For better or for worse the one thing Brown won't do at least where it becomes public is to let players dictate front office moves and when Palmer demanded the trade MB stayed pat and was willing to let Palmer retire in obscurity or so it was thought by some.
The entire thing was handled badly by all in my opinion, but it turned out that it was a pivotal time because the divas disappeared and the Palmer trade with the Raiders turned out quite well.
I liked Palmer, but he's gone and we have Andy and a glorious 0-4 playoff record.

(07-28-2015, 06:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why would anybody believe a word this guy says?

If memory serves the preseason before he quit was the preseason of the lockout (moves couldn't be made).

They could fire coaches.......right?

(07-28-2015, 11:59 PM)Wyche Wrote: They could fire coaches.......right?

Most likely; however, it would have probably been a pretty stupid move in such a period of uncertainty. 

(07-29-2015, 12:05 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Most likely; however, it would have probably been a pretty stupid move in such a period of uncertainty. 

One way of looking at it......or, it could be viewed as the perfect opportunity to start anew, being as they couldn't meet with the team, or have OTAs anyway.  Seemed to be the mindset regarding the offense anyway.....what with the Bratkowski sacrificial lamb and all.  4-12?  Seems legit for an extension......

So no one is addressing Marvin Lewis stating he'd quit if he didn't get his way before Carson did? I figured that would happen.

(07-28-2015, 11:09 PM)GodFather Wrote: So why should he stick with a front office that is happy with just being competitive. He wanted more and I don't blame him.

If you trained your entire life for a goal and someone was holding you back for a shot at it Im sure you would want to move on too.

If any of this were true then he would never have played for Oakland.

(07-29-2015, 01:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If any of this were true then he would never have played for Oakland.

No, the Raiders were playing really well when he joined. They had a legitimate shot at making the playoffs that year and would've if they won the last game of the season. Palmer has seen enough to realize success for him wasn't going to happen in Cincinnati. Bengals still haven't won a playoff game with Marvin Lewis and he just got another extension. Id say Carson feels like a genius with his decision in hindsight.

(07-29-2015, 01:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If any of this were true then he would never have played for Oakland.

Why wouldn't he? He knew Hue. That division wasn't the greatest. They were 4-2 when he came over. Went 4-5 when he started. Sure, wasn't great, but there was certainly potential. Raiders went 8-8 and had a good foundation going until Hue left.

I mean, they were 7-4 after week 12 of the season. It wasn't like they were 2-9.

(07-29-2015, 01:48 AM)GodFather Wrote:  Id say Carson feels like a genius with his decision in hindsight.

The Bengals have been to the playoffs 4 straight years while Carson's teams have only made the postseason once.

(07-29-2015, 01:49 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Why wouldn't he? He knew Hue. That division wasn't the greatest. They were 4-2 when he came over. Went 4-5 when he started. Sure, wasn't great, but there was certainly potential. Raiders went 8-8 and had a good foundation going until Hue left.

I mean, they were 7-4 after week 12 of the season. It wasn't like they were 2-9.

He left a team that had been to the playoffs twice in 6 years for a team that had not even had a winning season in 9 years.

(07-29-2015, 02:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: He left a team that had been to the playoffs twice in 6 years for a team that had not even had a winning season in 9 years.

It wasn't necessarily about Oakland; it had more to do with leaving Marvin. He was probably under the impression that a coaching change was necessary in order to take the next step. Considering Marvin hasn't won a playoff game in 15 years here, he might be right, or not.

Bad coach and mediocre QB will get you only so far. Dalton is mediocre and so was Palmer for most of his career.

If Carson Palmer would have stayed and the Bengals made the same exact moves they have made since that horrible last season...including drafting Andy Dalton, what do you think would have been the outcome of these past four seasons?