(03-09-2017, 06:38 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Oh please.  You think we're going to the Super Bowl with this O line?  Last place is where we're going.  

remind me again where last year's oline took us???

I'd rather overpay a pinch for Kirkpatrick than go into the season with a suspended Pacman, Dennard and WJIII as our CB options.

Tbh, it's debatable that we overpaid. The CB market is on the rise, and much like Dalton's contract, it will probably look better in a couple years.

Kirk was definitely our best CB last year and his individual stats (passer rating against, YPA allowed, etc) were pretty damn impressive.

(03-09-2017, 08:39 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I would have rather paid Whitworth to throat punch the offensive line coach....

Atleast a ***** slap would of been nice.

(03-09-2017, 08:45 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Doesn't really seem like it...I would imagine the deals between LaFell and Dre would still allow about $2.5 per year for Sexy.

But, if they release Adam Jones, that could get them close to $10 million remaining and could go after a LT.  Please, don't fool yourself to think Ogbuehi can start at LT just because he was drafted (stupidly) in the first round.  

(03-09-2017, 08:47 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: With only $23 guaranteed, there is no way he regresses.  I wasn't his biggest fan early, but he has improved each year and he knows our system.  This was the right move.

Did anyone else hear the steelers were looking at him?  Yeah, that would have been fun.  I like them struggling at CB, thank you. 

Hope you are right here SHRacer. You make some good points.

Kirkpatrick could improve and if we brought in a player like Clady or Wisnewski i would feel much more confident.

(03-09-2017, 08:57 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: And this thread is proof positive, why I don't even post here anymore, not do I check every hour like I used to. For 8 straight years. And its not the mods' fault either.

This has gone from the BEST board of any NFL team, to easily the worst internet time one can spend.

Such negativity and outright vitriol for something you should have fun discussing. And coming from people whom I considered comrades and, hell, friends.

Bunch of loser mentalities you all have.

I have always been a positive poster but i have to tell it like it is Truck. Losing Whitworth was the one move we
could not of made, it was a no brainer to at the very least give him the Franchise tag and try to replace Z to keep
our O-line somewhat solid. We could then fill the rest of the holes pretty easily in the Draft and go BPA early.

It is a loser mentality that MB has and he thinks it is a winner.

Now that we have Dre K locked up, we can dump A Jones and have a little more cap room to work with for an FA at OL and/or LB. Hopefully the FO is on the same page on this one.

(03-10-2017, 02:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd rather overpay a pinch for Kirkpatrick than go into the season with a suspended Pacman, Dennard and WJIII as our CB options.

Tbh, it's debatable that we overpaid. The CB market is on the rise, and much like Dalton's contract, it will probably look better in a couple years.

Kirk was definitely our best CB last year and his individual stats (passer rating against, YPA allowed, etc) were pretty damn impressive.

Agreed. Good re-signing. I'm very happy we kept DreK. However, I do see the other side of the argument. Between Dennard, WJ3, Shaw, Russell, and that new kid they signed a couple of weeks ago, there's at least some depth at CB. While most is unproven, there is depth. On the OLine, we don't have the same depth. I'm just hoping we don't reach in the draft because of our ineptitude with free agency.

(03-10-2017, 02:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd rather overpay a pinch for Kirkpatrick than go into the season with a suspended Pacman, Dennard and WJIII as our CB options.

Tbh, it's debatable that we overpaid. The CB market is on the rise, and much like Dalton's contract, it will probably look better in a couple years.

Kirk was definitely our best CB last year and his individual stats (passer rating against, YPA allowed, etc) were pretty damn impressive.

Hell, we're rolling with unproven at Andy's blindside, season's already toast, may as well get experience at DB while we're at it.  Dre ranked 50th overall, according to a poster here, but is getting paid the 10th best paycheck at CB.  Overpaid.  If you're gonna start the dumpster fire, quit trying to put it out with a squirt gun.....at this point, lets dump some jet fuel on it, and see just how hot she'll burn......

(03-10-2017, 02:06 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Agreed. Good re-signing. I'm very happy we kept DreK. However, I do see the other side of the argument. Between Dennard, WJ3, Shaw, Russell, and that new kid they signed a couple of weeks ago, there's at least some depth at CB. While most is unproven, there is depth. On the OLine, we don't have the same depth. I'm just hoping we don't reach in the draft because of our ineptitude with free agency.

They could've kept Kirk and also made some good signing for the o-line. It wouldn't have killed them.

I've seen plenty of good guards, tackles and centers getting signed. Meanwhile, the Bengals are taking their usual status-quo casual approach.

It's as if they truly believe the o-line will be just fine. Or that Mike Brown STILL doesn't believe the o-line is worth investing in.

(03-10-2017, 02:03 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd rather overpay a pinch for Kirkpatrick than go into the season with a suspended Pacman, Dennard and WJIII as our CB options.

Tbh, it's debatable that we overpaid. The CB market is on the rise, and much like Dalton's contract, it will probably look better in a couple years.

Kirk was definitely our best CB last year and his individual stats (passer rating against, YPA allowed, etc) were pretty damn impressive.

Yeah and not as much guaranteed money as i originally thought like SHRacer said.

Kirkpatrick was also the best last year at not getting beat deep. I am sure our two deep Safety set helped with this but
Adam got beat deep quite a few times, so it wasn't just that. After a day of processing it is still possible that we could be
competitive if we make a move or two to help the OL in FA. Have to cut Adam and Maualuga to do so though.

I think Fisher played good in his 4 games we still have Boling Wasserman may be ok. Ogbuehi may be better due to the simple fact he's his second full year removed from acl injury. worry more about defensive line if a run were to go in the draft and were stuck drafting a running back

(03-10-2017, 02:06 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Agreed. Good re-signing. I'm very happy we kept DreK. However, I do see the other side of the argument. Between Dennard, WJ3, Shaw, Russell, and that new kid they signed a couple of weeks ago, there's at least some depth at CB. While most is unproven, there is depth. On the OLine, we don't have the same depth. I'm just hoping we don't reach in the draft because of our ineptitude with free agency.

Benwikere who played very well in his rookie season. Lots of talent at CB and depth and Coyle is a good Secondary coach.

Nice post Muskie. We cannot reach, we usually don't but some might call Ogbuehi a reach which at the time i argued with.

Hindsight is 20/20.

(03-10-2017, 02:12 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: They could've kept Kirk and also made some good signing for the o-line. It wouldn't have killed them.

I've seen plenty of good guards, tackles and centers getting signed. Meanwhile, the Bengals are taking their usual status-quo casual approach.

It's as if they truly believe the o-line will be just fine. Or that Mike Brown STILL doesn't believe the o-line is worth investing in.

MB cannot be THAT stupid can he?

After the O-line just destroyed our season and the fact the O-line keeps his QB investment in tact?

(03-10-2017, 02:10 PM)Wyche Wrote:  Dre ranked 50th overall, according to a poster here, but is getting paid the 10th best paycheck at CB.  Overpaid.

I don't believe that. Last I saw he was 26th overall , and one of the best against the long ball.

(03-10-2017, 02:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't believe that. Last I saw he was 26th overall , and one of the best against the long ball.

The best at not getting beat deep. The best last year.

This is a great thing to be the best at as well.

As much flack as i gave Kirkpatrick in 2015 he was much improved last season.

I have to look at the positives as i have stated the negatives that could happen.

With less guaranteed money he will still have to try and play well to stay on, if he fell off again he could be cut.

At first i thought this deal would of made Dennard or Shaw re-signing unlikely but that is not the case.

(03-10-2017, 02:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The best at not getting beat deep. The best last year.

This is a great thing to be the best at as well.

As much flack as i gave Kirkpatrick in 2015 he was much improved last season.

I have to look at the positives as i have stated the negatives that could happen.

With less guaranteed money he will still have to try and play well to stay on, if he fell off again he could be cut.

At first i thought this deal would of made Dennard or Shaw re-signing unlikely but that is not the case.

I'm very interested to see what will happen with Dennard. It feels like JJo to me. I know that Dennard has not produced at that level, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him become healthy if he leaves. That's not a knock on the team, just seems to be our luck.

I'm hoping Dennard and WJ3 can get some significant playing time this season. I think WJ3 is the future. He and DreK on the outside with Dennard in the slot or nickel CB. I like Shaw and hope he sticks around. I think Russell could be good as well.

You can never have too much depth at CB and I think our corners could be a real strength soon.

(03-10-2017, 02:32 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'm very interested to see what will happen with Dennard. It feels like JJo to me. I know that Dennard has not produced at that level, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him become healthy if he leaves. That's not a knock on the team, just seems to be our luck.

I'm hoping Dennard and WJ3 can get some significant playing time this season. I think WJ3 is the future. He and DreK on the outside with Dennard in the slot or nickel CB. I like Shaw and hope he sticks around. I think Russell could be good as well.

You can never have too much depth at CB and I think our corners could be a real strength soon.

It is a passing league and you are right you can never have too much depth at CB.

The one thing is if all of these guys are playing well and Shawn continues to not play great we could move Shawn to Nickel LB
and Shaw to Safety and we could have one hell of a Secondary under Coyle. Shaw is very good in coverage and plays physical.

Also like Derron Smith a lot at depth at Safety. Ballhawk, just needs to learn to tackle.

(03-10-2017, 02:32 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'm very interested to see what will happen with Dennard. It feels like JJo to me. I know that Dennard has not produced at that level, but it wouldn't surprise me to see him become healthy if he leaves. That's not a knock on the team, just seems to be our luck.

I'm hoping Dennard and WJ3 can get some significant playing time this season. I think WJ3 is the future. He and DreK on the outside with Dennard in the slot or nickel CB. I like Shaw and hope he sticks around. I think Russell could be good as well.

You can never have too much depth at CB and I think our corners could be a real strength soon.

Dennard is a tough one to figure out. He showed a lot of potential when he first got here but the combination of 3 things has really hampered is development: 

1) Constant Injury

2) A lot of good players in front of him on the depth chart

3) Sub-par performance (usually as nickel) when he has gotten on the field.

I hate that it has turned out this way so far, but it is what it is.

(03-10-2017, 02:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is a passing league and you are right you can never have too much depth at CB.

The one thing is if all of these guys are playing well and Shawn continues to not play great we could move Shawn to Nickel LB
and Shaw to Safety and we could have one hell of a Secondary under Coyle. Shaw is very good in coverage and plays physical.

Also like Derron Smith a lot at depth at Safety. Ballhawk, just needs to learn to tackle.

I like Smith a lot as well. Shaw could be a nice fit at S, but I'd like to see Smith get a chance. The situation with Shawn was self inflicted. He didn't get much playing time and then they had to make a rush decision. Perfect example of why the Bengals need to start working these young guys in on defense instead of waiting until the last minute and being forced to make a decision.

On a different note, it's hilarious to me that the NFL continues to become more and more of a passing league yet our coaching staff wants to stay old school and run the ball. Obviously you need both, but we never do anything to improve our run blocking. If Ogbuehi and Fisher do not progress like we need and hope, it doesn't matter who our RBs are.

I think we need to let Dalton air it out more. I think we need to keep up with the rest of the league instead of trying to stick to the same plan we've been using the last 30 years.

(03-10-2017, 02:51 PM)treee Wrote: Dennard is a tough one to figure out. He showed a lot of potential when he first got here but the combination of 3 things has really hampered is development: 

1) Constant Injury

2) A lot of good players in front of him on the depth chart

3) Sub-par performance (usually as nickel) when he has gotten on the field.

I hate that it has turned out this way so far, but it is what it is.

Exactly. The kid is kind of an enigma. I think the talent is there, he just has to stay healthy and on the field.

(03-10-2017, 02:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't believe that. Last I saw he was 26th overall , and one of the best against the long ball.

Could be.....I've seen him ranked anywhere from 18th to 50th.  Either way, that ain't 10th best paid numbers.

(03-10-2017, 02:51 PM)treee Wrote: Dennard is a tough one to figure out. He showed a lot of potential when he first got here but the combination of 3 things has really hampered is development: 

1) Constant Injury

2) A lot of good players in front of him on the depth chart

3) Sub-par performance (usually as nickel) when he has gotten on the field.

I hate that it has turned out this way so far, but it is what it is.

I think they're playing him out of position.  If memory serves, he was good at MSU by using the sideline as a defender, kinda hard to do in the slot.

(03-10-2017, 02:54 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I like Smith a lot as well. Shaw could be a nice fit at S, but I'd like to see Smith get a chance. The situation with Shawn was self inflicted. He didn't get much playing time and then they had to make a rush decision. Perfect example of why the Bengals need to start working these young guys in on defense instead of waiting until the last minute and being forced to make a decision.

On a different note, it's hilarious to me that the NFL continues to become more and more of a passing league yet our coaching staff wants to stay old school and run the ball. Obviously you need both, but we never do anything to improve our run blocking. If Ogbuehi and Fisher do not progress like we need and hope, it doesn't matter who our RBs are.

I think we need to let Dalton air it out more. I think we need to keep up with the rest of the league instead of trying to stick to the same plan we've been using the last 30 years.

Well, there you go with another reason PA just keeps biting us in the ass. Terrible at coaching up run blocking.

But we all know my stance with PA, he should of been gone right after the season, it was obvious what our problem
was last year and him and Marv stuck with that problem to the detriment of the team. We could of corrected these
problems like Geunther did on Defense and we would of had a shot at the Playoffs if we adjusted earlier.

I still want us to be balanced. Why not try and follow the Falcons way of last year? If we can solidify the interior O-line
Dalton can have a pocket to step into. If we draft a Center in the 2nd or 3rd and Westerman is good at RG and these
two young OT's improve like i believe then not all is lost.

John Ross in the first, Talented DE or LB in the 2nd, John Toth in the 3rd and we might actually of improved.

We still don't know how this will play out but i really like the prospects of this Defense with this Secondary, Billings
and a pass rusher added to the fold.

On Offense we will see, but we have to hold out some hope. I really liked the Westerman pick.

(03-10-2017, 03:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, there you go with another reason PA just keeps biting us in the ass. Terrible at coaching up run blocking.

But we all know my stance with PA, he should of been gone right after the season, it was obvious what our problem
was last year and him and Marv stuck with that problem to the detriment of the team. We could of corrected these
problems like Geunther did on Defense and we would of had a shot at the Playoffs if we adjusted earlier.

I still want us to be balanced. Why not try and follow the Falcons way of last year? If we can solidify the interior O-line
Dalton can have a pocket to step into. If we draft a Center in the 2nd or 3rd and Westerman is good at RG and these
two young OT's improve like i believe then not all is lost.

John Ross in the first, Talented DE or LB in the 2nd, John Toth in the 3rd and we might actually of improved.

We still don't know how this will play out but i really like the prospects of this Defense with this Secondary, Billings
and a pass rusher added to the fold.

On Offense we will see, but we have to hold out some hope. I really liked the Westerman pick.

Yeah, my opinion of Alexander the Great is he should've been let go many years ago, but that's never going to happen.

I liked the Westerman pick too. I think we got good value there and I'm hoping he can be a good replacement at RG.

I can't wait to see what Billings adds this year. He and Atkins could be incredible up the middle. If there are any legs to the McCarron/Richardson trade, that would be nice too.

I'd really like to see us get Foster in the first. I'm so tired of seeing us get beat by TEs because we have slow LBs. We really need more speed there.

Getting a burner at WR would be nice, but I'd really like to see what we have in Core. I'm worried that if we draft a vertical guy this year, he's just going to get buried and wasted. I think there is a lot of potential there.