(03-10-2017, 06:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: ....you forgot the just plain shitty o line coach.

I keep trying to forget him lol. 

(03-10-2017, 05:55 PM)Wyche Wrote: Ah....but the year before they offered him Clint Boling money, aka lowballed him, and were forced to exercise the 5th year option.  Had they just ponied up a little dough then, and extended him like they said they were gonna do, we wouldn't be in this current predicament.  We could have probably inked him in the 8-10 mil range....just a hunch.

Gotta remember that he had missed 9 starts in '13-14 and had several  other games where he looked bad playing through injury.  Injuries were a big question mark at that point in time.

Maybe they could have gotten him for 8-10 mill, maybe not.  If they had, he would have screwed himself out of a lot of money, and his agents would have done a poor job.

(03-10-2017, 12:06 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: We heard that the Bengals wouldn't even try to re-sign Zeitler because the market will dictate that he is worth about $10-12m a year and the Bengals don't think a Guard should be valued that high. My issue with this line of thinking is every year, every position's "value" will increase. Whomever is a solid Guard next year and is a free agent may easily surpass Zeitler's contract. I bet you that by year 3 of his contract, his value will be average. Unless the Bengals draft a solid Guard who will be good but not great, they will have to ultimately pay big bucks to get one. Are we to expect that any of our draftees who become very good to great will only remain on the team if we can get them to re-sign with us at a discount? I sure hope not. To be fair, they have signed past players to big contracts (Palmer, Green, Dalton).

What happens if Westerman (or even Boling) is a washout and gets Dalton hurt? Isn't the QB position arguably the highest value on the team? Would it not be prudent to invest in protection of your high value asset? The Left Tackle position is the highest value on the offensive line and this makes sense. The current replacement we have looked terrible last year at what should have been an easier position.

I'm not saying they should have paid Zeitler what he got from the Browns even though they have the money to do so. However, the Bengals are going in with way too many unknowns on the offensive line, a position group that wasn't strong to begin with. The two best players in a weak group are now gone. Their replacements (so far) are a guy who hasn't played a snap and a first round pick who was awful last year. If I'm Andy Dalton, I'm seriously doubting my teams commitment to me. Sure, they may make a move to sign someone, but who's left that is an improvement? TJ Lang? Ask the Cowboys how important an offensive line is after seeing how Ezekiel Elliot had the success he had in Dallas.

I do agree with the Bengals philosophy of not diving into free agency and sign a ton of players. It rarely works. The Browns will be a better team next year, but I don't think they will be close to making the playoffs and how hard is it to improve from 1-15? That said, signing a player that fits here and there is wise as opposed to worrying about comp picks for the next year. I just hope that when the draft comes they don't reach for a position of need. The draft is a crapshoot and relying solely on draft choices is not prudent.

Sorry for the long winded post. I don't think I'm saying anything that wasn't already said but maybe someone who disagrees can explain where I'm off. I won't be offended.

In a nutshell, the value is not what Mike says it is.  It's what somebody's willing to pay.

(03-10-2017, 06:51 PM)Whatever Wrote: Gotta remember that he had missed 9 starts in '13-14 and had several  other games where he looked bad playing through injury.  Injuries were a big question mark at that point in time.

Maybe they could have gotten him for 8-10 mill, maybe not.  If they had, he would have screwed himself out of a lot of money, and his agents would have done a poor job.

Not in 2014 dollars they wouldn't have.....the Bengals BUNGALED this, no two ways about it.

(03-10-2017, 07:54 PM)Wyche Wrote: Not in 2014 dollars they wouldn't have.....the Bengals BUNGALED this, no two ways about it.

The salary cap rises far faster than the rate of inflation.  If your agent advises you properly, you'd be dumb to sign a deal that pays you $8 mill a year when the next year you will make $8.5 mill and are able to get an $11-12 mill a year deal after that.  The players and agents know the cap and top end player salaries go up every year, too.  The only reason for him to sign early for less money is fear that his play wouldn't allow him to get that big second contract, insurance against career ending injury, or helping the team with the salary cap, none of which appeared to be high on Z's priority list.

(03-10-2017, 06:14 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This is what the Bengals fail at and something I have bitched about over and over.

Why they screw around and let players actually hit the point of FA.

Sign them with a year left. Sure, that first year may seem like they are near the top of their position $$$ wise, but then a funny thing happens. The cap goes up, and guys get bigger and bigger contracts, meanwhile you have a guy locked up for 4 or 5 years who is a top guy at his position that is being paid near the middle of the pack.

Other teams seem to understand this concept, but Mikey...nope he can't commit to anything besides a mediocre head coach. 

Player's agents are also using this concept by rejecting extensions, somewhat neutralizing the owners. If you're good enough to attract more than one team, the money always increases.

(03-10-2017, 01:45 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Willie was re-signed twice to contracts that paid him $6m per year and then was cut because he wouldn't take a pay cut. Levi was signed to an extension that paid him $5m per year and was cut when Andre was drafted. I understand the cap was lower at the time, but the Bengals weren't exactly breaking the bank for their top performing offensive lineman. Andre was re-signed on the cheap because he misjudged his market value. The Bengals didn't overwhelm him with a deal, the market just wasn't there for him. Zeitler wasn't even offered a contract (per Hobson) and Ogbuehi is still under his rookie contract.

I stand by my statement that the Bengals do not value OLine, especially compared to skill positions. The team themselves have said that they do not value interior OLine. While I also agree that the Browns severely overpaid for Zeitler's services, the Bengals didn't even try.

You could make a case they place value on OT. They definitely do not place value on OG or C. Other than Steinbach/Zeitlar when did they ever drafted an OG or C in top two rounds? I cannot even remember them using the third round for interior lineman other than Boling In the ML era.