(03-12-2017, 12:06 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's easy to say that Mangold would be an immediate upgrade, but he has never attended a Bengals practice.  OL is one unit where you most definitely want consistency, they need to work well as a unit.  The management of this team really did not look at the ramifications of losing both of the steadiest players on that line.  The team will suffer as a result.

It's easy to say because our current C is terrible.  

Sure, he has "never attended a Bengals practice", but the man is an 11 year veteran, 7x Pro-Bowler and 3x All-Pro caliber O-lineman.  You don't think he'd quickly adapt to the nuances and personnel of a different team?  Take the young guys under his wing as much as he could?  

If there was ever a guy that knows what it takes to build a cohesive unit it would be a guy like Mangold.

(03-12-2017, 12:13 AM)JumboTron Wrote: It's easy to say because our current C is terrible.  

Sure, he has "never attended a Bengals practice", but the man is a 11 year veteran, All-Pro caliber O-lineman.  You don't think he'd quickly adapt to the nuances and personnel of a different team?  Take the young guys under his wing as much as he could?  

If there was ever a guy that knows what it takes to build a cohesive unit it would be a guy like Mangold.

Is there even any assurance that Mangold has even made a 100% recovery?  What did he play last year, 2 maybe 3 games?

(03-12-2017, 12:18 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is there even any assurance that Mangold has even made a 100% recovery?  What did he play last year, 2 maybe 3 games?

Let me ask you this:

If Mangold is 100% healthy, would he be an upgrade over Bodine in your mind?

(03-12-2017, 12:20 AM)JumboTron Wrote: Let me ask you this:

If Mangold is 100% healthy, would he be an upgrade over Bodine in your mind?

Absolutely.  I believe that I stated a few posts back, that had not so many pieces changed on the OL, that I would have been all in favor of the Bengals bringing him in.

(03-12-2017, 12:23 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Absolutely.  I believe that I stated a few posts back, that had not so many pieces changed on the OL, that I would have been all in favor of the Bengals bringing him in.

So you cede that Magold is a better player. 

Again, the absence of veterans means there is a void. Correct?  

So not only does Mangold exceed Bodine in both talent, but also NFL experience.  That alone will have the younger guys attention.  Just because that experience was not logged with Cincinnati does not mean that the unit would not form a cohesive bond and play at a high level.

(03-12-2017, 12:31 AM)JumboTron Wrote: So you cede that Magold is a better player. 

Again, the absence of veterans means there is a void. Correct?  

So not only does Mangold exceed Bodine in both talent, but also NFL experience.  That alone will have the younger guys attention.  Just because that experience was not logged with Cincinnati does not mean that the unit would not form a cohesive bond and play at a high level.

Cede??  I cede nothing.  I stated originally that I was for Mangold, I just think that situationally, replacing 4 OL spots is worse than replacing 3.  Are you just trying to stir up shit?? 

(03-12-2017, 12:41 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Cede??  I cede nothing.  I stated originally that I was for Mangold, I just think that situationally, replacing 4 OL spots is worse than replacing 3.  Are you just trying to stir up shit?? 

Poor choice of words on my part and for that I apologize, I should have said: You recognize that Mangold is better.

I assure you that I am not "trying to stir up shit".  I, like you, just want to get this crap-fest we call a O-line in better shape and the addition of a guy like Mangold would do exactly that in terms of experience and talent regardless of age.

(03-12-2017, 12:41 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Cede??  I cede nothing.  I stated originally that I was for Mangold, I just think that situationally, replacing 4 OL spots is worse than replacing 3.  Are you just trying to stir up shit?? 

(03-12-2017, 12:48 AM)HarleyDog Wrote:

I am what I am 

(03-12-2017, 12:46 AM)JumboTron Wrote: Poor choice of words on my part and for that I apologize, I should have said: You recognize that Mangold is better.

I assure you that I am not "trying to stir up shit".  I, like you, just want to get this crap-fest we call a O-line in better shape and the addition of a guy like Mangold would do exactly that in terms of experience and talent regardless of age.

No offense taken.  Yes, this OL is in much disarray right now.  For sure, Mangold is better than Bodine, especially if he's fully recovered.  I mean an ankle can nag the heck out of a guy playing OL.  After having plenty of time to get it repaired and rest up, he could come back and have a career season.  However, bringing him in, is a move that I just don't see the Bengals making. 

Prior to losing Whit and Zeitler, I could have imagined the Bengals attempting to convince Paul Alexander that his "golden boy" needed replacing.  However, in light of recent events, I think that there are bigger fires to put out..

So far Breno Giacomini and Mangold look like the best cut vet OL out there then so far, is there one better? Also Dumerville makes sense as a 3rd down pass rusher and you could still justify taking a DE early and even dare we say cut MJ if need be. Thing is MJ may be more likely to get reps. I trust Guenther with how to use Dumerville (if healthy and he'd even sign) but I just hope Marvin wouldn't do anything crazy like with him.

(03-11-2017, 07:04 PM)phil413 Wrote: Rather than wail and moan about the offseason or comp pick strategy, what cut FA's are still out there that the team would spend this 2-3million on and still secure these picks they plan for?

 

The fact is that we have about $24M in cap space.

Are we extending Eifert? Are we extending Dennard? Are we extending Hill? Are we extending Burfict? Will we be extending McCarron? All these guys are free agents next year and as it stands, without the rookie deals, the Bengals will be heading into the 2018 season with about $50M in cap space. Given that Mikey will cut that down to about $18M with his fake cap, we can expect another year like the last two - talent exit. Call it TalExit.

(03-12-2017, 02:28 AM)BengalChris Wrote: The fact is that we have about $24M in cap space.

Are we extending Eifert? Are we extending Dennard? Are we extending Hill? Are we extending Burfict? Will we be extending McCarron? All these guys are free agents next year and as it stands, without the rookie deals, the Bengals will be heading into the 2018 season with about $50M in cap space. Given that Mikey will cut that down to about $18M with his fake cap, we can expect another year like the last two - talent exit. Call it TalExit.

I think most of us are on the same page of being frustrated that they float these numbers to us though Hobspin, but the fact is this is how they operate.  We can moan about it every thread or we can share ideas with how we'd make the most of what's real.  What's real is they won't spend anywhere close to that on this open market, will likely only extend one of those guys you mentioned this offseason (Burfict or Eifert) and have already dug themselves into playing the comp pick game.  I just wanted to see some ideas for adding talent with the parameters this team uses...crazy or not.  

Another idea for a thread could be, which self imposed rule will Mikey and Co. drop using first.  Being okay with substantial dead money? Dropping the comp pick strategy?  Sign vets to realistically compete vs young players they're banking on?  Not spinning a budget publicly to act like they're out of money?  Being willing to break from the "big money position" strategy that uses high assets (picks and pay) on certain positions?  I feel like that would make us more mad, but either way focusing on one issue at a time, these are Mikey's rules and I actually an intrigued by Mangold vs Clady discussions....sad or not. 

(03-12-2017, 02:44 AM)phil413 Wrote: I think most of us are on the same page of being frustrated that they float these numbers to us though Hobspin, but the fact is this is how they operate.  We can moan about it every thread or we can share ideas with how we'd make the most of what's real.  What's real is they won't spend anywhere close to that on this open market, will likely only extend one of those guys you mentioned this offseason (Burfict or Eifert) and have already dug themselves into playing the comp pick game.  I just wanted to see some ideas for adding talent with the parameters this team uses...crazy or not.  

Another idea for a thread could be, which self imposed rule will Mikey and Co. drop using first.  Being okay with substantial dead money? Dropping the comp pick strategy?  Sign vets to realistically compete vs young players they're banking on?  Not spinning a budget publicly to act like they're out of money?  Being willing to break from the "big money position" strategy that uses high assets (picks and pay) on certain positions?  I feel like that would make us more mad, but either way focusing on one issue at a time, these are Mikey's rules and I actually an intrigued by Mangold vs Clady discussions....sad or not. 

The comp pick game could work but only on the condition that there are consistently good drafts. From the list of comp picks the Bengals have selected no one has turned out for the team as a legit starter.

If something isn't working ... well.

I'm not done complaining about Mike Brown and his poor decisions.

(03-11-2017, 07:34 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: On the O-line, Mangold, Fluker, Vollmer (not sure about his health) and Giacomini could be options from released players, that should all be affordable.

On defense, maybe Dumervil as a pass rusher or Paul Soliai as a cheap vet backup to Billings.

Some other released players of note that are still out there: RB's Peterson and Charles, CB/S's Revis and Webb, and DL Odrick. Looks like the slot corner Roby-Coleman is still available as well. He's still young at 25, and has played pretty well at times but is very small guy.

As to the oline, I think Johnson and Hopkins have looked good in the times I've seen them on the field, and Westerman should be given an opportunity as well.  So in my mind it all comes down to whether Ced can play LT.  In his limited snaps at it last year he looked comfortable there.

As for the dline I see no reason to add anyone via FA.  Sims, Atkins, Billings, Hardison, and Williams are fine on the interior, and we still have Dean and Thompson on the roster if needed.  On the outside we'll be adding at least one in the draft, including most likely the 9th pick.  If we want another veteran swing guy, go back to either Hunt or Gilberry for one more season as a stop gap.

Would not mind a addition of Dontari Poe. He's better suited as 4-3 DT. Would be a upgrade over Peko
Poe can command double teams on his size alone
I do like Cordelle Patterson. He's been a underachieving as a WR but as a KOR he's a absolute beast.
If Rex bolts than who's your other returner ?
Sign Patterson cut James Wright who IMO gives this offense nothing
Having Patterson and Erickson would give a special teams coach a dilemma