(03-14-2017, 08:09 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: 34's response to Carlos pretty much says it all...

Welcome to our Groundhog Day. RT @Carlos_Dunlap I don't see the plan but guess that's not my role to either.

— 34inXXIII (@34inXXIII) March 14, 2017

The more things supposedly 'change'...the more they seem remain the same. 

I finally saw enough of Groundhogs Day to get the reference and sadly it's accurate.

(03-14-2017, 11:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Didn't say he couldn't have an opinion. Just said it's not his role to understand the plan. 

Sorry, but I don't understand the logic.  On teams with clear championship aspirations, everyone knows the plan.  The plan is to win a title, period.  Everyone has a role to play to that sole end.  Given the Bengals run of lukewarm success during Dunlap's tenure, Carlos is right to wonder why the FO has produced two consecutive offseasons of inaction.  There is no obvious commitment to sustaining the lukewarm success.  The team has went from the bottom of the upper tier to middling at best.  As a competitor, this would be confusing, and grounds for questioning the hell is going on?  That was the obvious intent of the tweet.  Given Mike Brown's historical run of ineptitude, it's logical to question the team's plan and motives.  A plan to sustain does not appear to be in hand.  Rather, the focus seems to be on rolling over cash for future  "expenses".

Hey Carlos, nothing to here, just move along. These are not the plans you are looking for. Darth ebenezer says to just trust the process and one day he will rule the nfl.

Believe in the force of the comp pick!

(03-14-2017, 11:53 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I give you a hard time about some of your post but I will also give credit when you are right, and this is spot on. Prior to Dalton's freak injury he was playing like an MVP and this team looked ready to go places.

But then we drafted for the future instead of trying to win it while the window was still open by drafting two OL when we had a solid OL and other immediate pressing needs. Namely a pass rusher.  

It seems FO knew this window was closing as well. Fair enough we are in rebuild mode now for sure.

Hopefully it is quick with good draft picks. Yet we have not had real good picks since Gruden left, but still hoping. 

To Carlos, the plan is to have half the team on rookie contracts and save lots of money.  

(03-15-2017, 12:24 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote:  On teams with clear championship aspirations, everyone knows the plan.

No they don't.  And they even say so when asked on radio or TV.

(03-14-2017, 11:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just 15 months ago we had a roster that could have been a serious championship contender if Dalton had not gotten injured.

And since 2015, we have lost 8 of those 22 starters. 3 of those 8 were 27 or younger when we lost them.

And "could" have been a contender. But we never know for sure. 2005 "could" have been a Super Bowl run. So could 2015.

Remember 2013 where we had a REALLY good team and played against a team that barely beat a team of backups to make the playoffs? We even went undefeated at home for the first time since their last Super Bowl appearance. They beat 6 teams that were at .500 or better. They beat the reigning Super Bowl champs.

But they lost in a very bad game against the Chargers. Nothing is for certain.

I'm 25 years old. The Bengals have not won a playoff game since I've been alive.

(03-15-2017, 12:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No they don't.  And they even say so when asked on radio or TV.

If you think the players on teams with singular goals and the best systems (e.g. Patriots, Spurs, Chelsea, Team Sky, Cardinals) don't know that the one and only goal is a title, and that each guy has a role to fill, then you're kidding yourself or delusional.  Players who buck the team, role-based ethos are shown the door.  Underachievers are cast aside. "The Process" for these organizations, is to continually search for the best possible roster to achieve the single goal, given their constraints.  The Brown family does not exhibit this approach.

(03-14-2017, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not a genius, or an expert at much of anything, but I can recognize the significance of some things when they happen.  Now that Whit has left the team, Dunlap is not pretty much a senior leader on this team.  One of the worst things that this team could do, in it's now fragile state, is to upset the veteran leadership that remains.  If the Bengals organization loses the confidence of guys like Dunlap, Atkins, and AJ Green, they might as well cash it in, and move onto selling used cars. 

  

Wait... They havent done that already?

(03-14-2017, 09:14 PM)09ItsOurTime Wrote: Those are also the 2 least likely people to say anything. I truly beleive that's half the reason they drafted Andy, they knew he would be a good kid and keep to himself.

Dalton I agree, but Green was pretty pissed last season over being kept out. He's also a top 5 player at his position,  I could see him having enough at some point. 

(03-15-2017, 12:54 AM)Go Cards Wrote: But then we drafted for the future instead of trying to win it while the window was still open by drafting two OL when we had a solid OL and other immediate pressing needs. Namely a pass rusher.  

It seems FO knew this window was closing as well. Fair enough we are in rebuild mode now for sure.

Hopefully it is quick with good draft picks. Yet we have not had real good picks since Gruden left, but still hoping. 

To Carlos, the plan is to have half the team on rookie contracts and save lots of money.  

I agree to a point, not sure they were planning on a full blown rebuild mode. I think honestly, they really believed they could get Fisher and Ced and groom them to take over for White and Andre and move forward without missing a beat. They weren't counting on the two rookies struggling and looking lost at times.

As for the pass rusher, they didn't want to admit they screwed up with Clarke and Hunt so...they stuck to their guns with those two.

It's just another thing about this team that will drive you nuts. If they make a mistake (which every team does, not every pick is going to be a star) they are so afraid to admit the mistake and move on from it. Instead we keep guys around for much longer than they should be, as they waste roster spots. That is almost as annoying as the lack of planning in FA.

(03-15-2017, 12:08 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Ok, Ok I yield. It is the role of a 28 year old Defensive lineman to know the overall plan of the team.

Right. Because that's exactly what we're saying 

I'm having a early intuition we will win a playoff game, only real loss I see here is whitworth, we gotten a little better by dansby and peko and nugent leaving. We will at least win 1 playoff game on our 50th anniversary. But the pats are stacked. They look like their going back to the superbowl.

(03-14-2017, 11:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Didn't say he couldn't have an opinion. Just said it's not his role to understand the plan. 

I thought the plan was to win the Super Bowl. Carlos doesn't see them trying to execute the plan.

(03-15-2017, 01:57 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: If you think the players on teams with singular goals and the best systems (e.g. Patriots, Spurs, Chelsea, Team Sky, Cardinals) don't know that the one and only goal is a title, and that each guy has a role to fill, then you're kidding yourself or delusional.  Players who buck the team, role-based ethos are shown the door.  Underachievers are cast aside. "The Process" for these organizations, is to continually search for the best possible roster to achieve the single goal, given their constraints.  The Brown family does not exhibit this approach.

The Brown family doesexhibit this approach.  That was how they were able to make the playoffs so many years in a row and put together a roster in '15 that was championship quality.

Just because the Brown family does not hand over executive control to players and/or message board members does not mean they are not trying to win.  Just because they do not do everything you want does not mean they are not trying to win.  Just a year ago people like you were claiming that if the Bengals did not cut Dre Kirkpatric then they did not want to win.  Fans have been claiming that Bengals did not want to win because they continued to keep Peko on the payroll, but now a team that just won the Super bowl a year ago agreedto pay him more than the Bengals did.  MOst of the people around here who claim that it is so impossible for them to be wrong that the only way you coiuld disagree with any of their football opinions is if you did not even want to win usually have no idea what they are talking about.

If you were to ask any of the Patriots after the Super bowl who the team is going to acquire and who they were going to get rid of they would have all said that they did not know what the plan was for thjis offseason.  They know that it is not there job to run the front office.

(03-15-2017, 06:33 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I thought the plan was to win the Super Bowl.   Carlos doesn't see them trying to execute the plan.

Carlos does nnot see it because he has not seen who they are going to draft and sign in free agency.

And like all other good teams the bengals don't tell their players exactly who they are going to keep and/or releaase.  that is because it is not the players job to be scouts and make front office decisions.

Fans attacking Dunlap after already trying to lay the foundation for blame on Dalton when the Oline struggles next offseason. Anything to protect "the process" (that's gotten us nowhere).

I'm not sure why folks don't think it's important for employees to know the plan when significant changes are being made. That's how companies mess up morale in real life and in sports teams obviously.

It's made mainstream news.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/15/bengals-carlos-dunlap-i-dont-see-the-plan/

The comments about the Bengals "plan" everywhere you read about this lets you know how folks are feeling about the Bengals future outlook (not good). Seems like everyone sees the disaster taking place but a selective few here on the board.

It's funny how we are happy about a players speaking out publicly when we agree with him, but if we don't then he is a distraction and a cancer to the team. What happened to keeping this kind of thing in house? I'd say this shows lack of leadership and maturity on Dunlap's part, agree with his message or not.

When you're hungry, you're easily pissed off. Glad the players care about winning. Now, to get the FO on board.

(03-15-2017, 08:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The Brown family doesexhibit this approach.  That was how they were able to make the playoffs so many years in a row and put together a roster in '15 that was championship quality.

Just because the Brown family does not hand over executive control to players and/or message board members does not mean they are not trying to win.  Just because they do not do everything you want does not mean they are not trying to win.  Just a year ago people like you were claiming that if the Bengals did not cut Dre Kirkpatric then they did not want to win.  Fans have been claiming that Bengals did not want to win because they continued to keep Peko on the payroll, but now a team that just won the Super bowl a year ago agreedto pay him more than the Bengals did.  MOst of the people around here who claim that it is so impossible for them to be wrong that the only way you coiuld disagree with any of their football opinions is if you did not even want to win usually have no idea what they are talking about.

If you were to ask any of the Patriots after the Super bowl who the team is going to acquire and who they were going to get rid of they would have all said that they did not know what the plan was for thjis offseason.  They know that it is not there job to run the front office.

If the plan was to have a shitty season and then follow it up by getting worse, then kudos.  They have achieved it.  Stupid Carlos, thinking there is a plan.

How dare you compare the Bengals to the five time world champs.  They have next to nothing in common.  That is just insulting to doing it the right way.  And Patriots players don't have to ask.  They know the plan--to win yet another SB.

If you think one of the best players on this team being concerned about where the team is headed is no big deal, then you  have swallowed one too many Hobspins.  At least he gets paid for his nonsense.

(03-14-2017, 11:18 PM)milksheikh Wrote: Carlos Dunlap is one of the best personalities on the team and guys on the team.

I don't know what to say... Bengals gotta have a A+ draft and finish FA strong to contend in the growing AFC.

Truth......