The patriots players, like all other players, do not know their teams plans. Let's not be ridiculous here. The patriots players are afforded the luxury of knowing what ever the plan is will formulated with a championship run first and foremost. Bengals players, not so much.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(03-15-2017, 09:16 AM)jj22 Wrote: I'm not sure why folks don't think it's important for employees to know the plan when significant changes are being made. That's how companies mess up morale in real life and in sports teams obviously.

You must not have much experience in "real life".  In "real life" Upper management makes the decisions and they very rarely let the workers know what they are doing before they do it.

Same with football teams.  Like I said before, if you ask any of the Patriot players what moves teh front office was going to make this offseason I bet every one of them wo9uld say that they do not know.

(03-15-2017, 08:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The Brown family doesexhibit this approach.  That was how they were able to make the playoffs so many years in a row and put together a roster in '15 that was championship quality.

Just because the Brown family does not hand over executive control to players and/or message board members does not mean they are not trying to win.  Just because they do not do everything you want does not mean they are not trying to win.  Just a year ago people like you were claiming that if the Bengals did not cut Dre Kirkpatric then they did not want to win.  Fans have been claiming that Bengals did not want to win because they continued to keep Peko on the payroll, but now a team that just won the Super bowl a year ago agreedto pay him more than the Bengals did.  MOst of the people around here who claim that it is so impossible for them to be wrong that the only way you coiuld disagree with any of their football opinions is if you did not even want to win usually have no idea what they are talking about.

If you were to ask any of the Patriots after the Super bowl who the team is going to acquire and who they were going to get rid of they would have all said that they did not know what the plan was for thjis offseason.  They know that it is not there job to run the front office.

That being said those same Patriot fans know with out a doubt what the plan is & that is to win now. They don't second guess their FO because they have proven they know what they are doing. The Bengals FO has yet to show those results.

(03-15-2017, 09:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You must not have much experience in "real life".  In "real life" Upper management makes the decisions and they very rarely let the workers know what they are doing before they do it.

And it ends in some pretty bad work environments. As I'm sure we all know. Everyone hates when the big wigs have these great plans that effect them, yet they get left out of the process. It's just bad business.

(03-15-2017, 09:53 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: The patriots players, like all other players, do not know their teams plans.  Let's not be ridiculous here.  The patriots players are afforded the luxury of knowing what ever the plan is will formulated with a championship run first and foremost.  Bengals players, not so much.  

Exactly.  The Patriots win every year without letting the players know what the plan is.  So Carlos needs to shut up and play.  That is the way it works with every team in the league.  Dunlap has been lucky enough to ply on a team that has made the playoffs 5 of the 7 years he has been playing for them.  If he thinks all of that happened by accident with no plan by the front office then he is clueless.

(03-15-2017, 09:57 AM)jj22 Wrote: And it ends in some pretty bad work environments. As I'm sure we all know. Everyone hates when the big wigs have these great plans that effect them, and leave them out of the process. It's just bad business.

Actually, no, it does not.  The only time it is a problem is when some underling thinks he should be making the decvisions insteda of the boss.

It is not "bad business" at all.  If you had more experience with the real world then you wuold realize that that is how it works even in the most successful businesses in the world.  If all a business cared about was not hurting the feelings of the employees then it would be out of business real soon.

What causes bad work environments is employees who think they are the boss.

(03-15-2017, 09:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Exactly.  The Patriots win every year without letting the players know what the plan is.  So Carlos needs to shut up and play.  That is the way it works with every team in the league.  Dunlap has been lucky enough to ply on a team that has made the playoffs 5 of the 7 years he has been playing for them.  If he thinks all of that happened by accident with no plan by the front office then he is clueless.

You may use my point that way if you wish. My point is more about teams not wanting 53 twitter accounts saying our team is going after so so. Tampering issues, revealing strategy etc. patriots players can look at their moves and see the logic, and effort put into them. Our players our scratching their heads thinking wtf?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(03-15-2017, 10:05 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote:  patriots players can look at their moves and see the logic, and effort put into them.  Our players our scratching their heads thinking wtf?

And our front office was scratching its head and saying WTF when a guy who claimed he was going to make a run at the NFL single season sack record ends up with only 8.

If Carlos wants to send a message to the fans it should be an explanation of why he had such a drop off in production instead of ripping the front office.

Will Clarke had a better sack ration (one every 96 snaps) than Dunlap did last year (one every 102 snaps).  So why aren't all the angry fans accusing Dunlap of "not wanting to win"?

(03-15-2017, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And our front office was scratching its head and saying WTF when a guy who claimed he was going to make a run at the NFL single season sack record ends up with only 8.

If Carlos wants to send a message to the fans it should be an explanation of why he had such a drop off in production instead of ripping the front office.

Will Clarke had a better sack ration (one every 96 snaps) than Dunlap did last year (one every 102 snaps).  So why aren't all the angry fans accusing Dunlap of "not wanting to win"?

I didn't take carlos' statement as ripping the organization. If you did that's your right, I suppose. And comparing sack ratios of a situational pass rusher to a full time player doesn't seem to jive. Let's see Clarke do it game in and game out, all game. Would eliminate the need for a high draft pick a pass rusher that could help fill the gaping holes on our o line


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(03-15-2017, 09:57 AM)jj22 Wrote: And it ends in some pretty bad work environments. As I'm sure we all know. Everyone hates when the big wigs have these great plans that effect them, yet they get left out of the process. It's just bad business.

Many companies talk about wanting to include the people who make their brand. But usually it's just lower level (the bulk of the company's workforce) talking to middle management, who has to implement the plans by upper management.

(03-15-2017, 10:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually, no, it does not.  The only time it is a problem is when some underling thinks he should be making the decvisions insteda of the boss.

It is not "bad business" at all.  If you had more experience with the real world then you wuold realize that that is how it works even in the most successful businesses in the world.  If all a business cared about was not hurting the feelings of the employees then it would be out of business real soon.

What causes bad work environments is employees who think they are the boss.

It certainly is bad business. Maybe you are a big wig that makes decision that effect lower level staff, decisions effecting the job that they do when they are the experts and should be consulted. You probably make the decisions and hang your employees out to have to defend all your bad decisions. This is the real world. And it's interesting to see someone (you) not know they do that to folks all the time. But they just sit and count their money, they really don't care about us common folk. Must be nice to be the ones making decisions that effect those employees while having those employees take attacks from customers and clients when they had no say in the "plan". The big wigs never get the pushback. I always said if they did they'd make better decisions. But it's life.

Shame on those employees though right. Stay in their lane and take the assault from clients and customers about bad changes while the "boss" spends the day in "meetings" with no idea that the front line is under attack.

(03-15-2017, 10:24 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I didn't take carlos' statement as ripping the organization.  If you did that's your right, I suppose.

Okay then, what did you think his comment was supposed to mean?  Everyone except you sees that it was meant as a rip on the team because he is claiming they have no plan to improve the team.

And why would you just "suppose" that I would be allowed to have an opinion different from yours?  What more proof do I have to show you before you will be sure that I have the right to have an opinion different from yours?

(03-15-2017, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And our front office was scratching its head and saying WTF when a guy who claimed he was going to make a run at the NFL single season sack record ends up with only 8.

If Carlos wants to send a message to the fans it should be an explanation of why he had such a drop off in production instead of ripping the front office.

Will Clarke had a better sack ration (one every 96 snaps) than Dunlap did last year (one every 102 snaps).  So why aren't all the angry fans accusing Dunlap of "not wanting to win"?

So now you're hating on Carlos.  Typical.

Carlos, there is no plan.  There is no pursuit of titles.  There is a litany of bullshit fed to us on a daily basis by a bunch of con artists and incompetents who, if they actually did have a plan beyond giving friends and family highly paid jobs in a business about which they know little,  are too incompetent to ever carry it out.

Here's the plan, Carlos.  Stick with what hasn't been working for three decades, keep defrauding the fan base, who, in Fred World, has no right to expect anything for the huge investment the county made in the franchise.  A billion dollar entity run by a delusional curmudgeon whose greatest accomplishment was being born, scorning his consumers year after year and delivering heartbreak at every turn.

The window is slammed shut, Carlos.  You know it, we know it.  Everyone knows it, even though some refuse to admit it.  This is the backwards slide, our new world, looking up at the Browns.  And Mike will still have the billion dollar assert and he will continue to run it like a lemonade stand compared to his peers.

Shut up, Carlos. Fred doesn't think you have the right to care.

(03-15-2017, 10:28 AM)jj22 Wrote: It certainly is bad business. Maybe you are a big wig that makes decision that effect lower level staff, decisions on the job that they do when they are the experts and should be consulted. You probably make the decisions and hang your employees out to have to defend all your bad decisions. This is the real world. And it's interesting to see someone (you) not know they do that to folks all the time. But they just sit and count their money, they really don't care about us common folk. Must be nice to be the ones making decisions that effect those employees while having those employees take attacks from customers and clients when they had no say in the "plan". The big wigs never get the pushback. I always said if they did they'd make better decisions. But it's life.

1.  I have never been in a mangament position in my life.

2.  I have worked at some successful businesses and the good employees know how it works.  The underlings who always think they know more than the bosses are the ones who are usually the problem.

And the front line employees always know more than the boss. Hate to break it to you. Who do you think the boss runs to when they need to know something? Right.....

Hell most of us trained them.

(03-15-2017, 10:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: 1.  I have never been in a mangament position in my life.

2.  I have worked at some successful businesses and the good employees know how it works.  The underlings who always think they know more than the bosses are the ones who are usually the problem.

Where did Carlos say he knew more than the bosses?  And this is not the USSR.

(03-14-2017, 09:31 PM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Whit left at the end of his contract as a free agent.  Carson pretended to retire and quit on the team.  Big difference.

Not really, Palmer was just as fed up as we are now.....folks forget they pulled the same stunt with his o line, and trotted out a bunch of turds to replace the aging vets.  He got tired of bloody noses and wrecked elbows, would be my guess.  Dalton won't re-sign if things don't change, hide and watch.

(03-15-2017, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Okay then, what did you think his comment was supposed to mean?  Everyone except you sees that it was meant as a rip on the team because he is claiming they have no plan to improve the team.

And why would you just "suppose" that I would be allowed to have an opinion different from yours?  What more proof do I have to show you before you will be sure that I have the right to have an opinion different from yours?

He didn't say they have no plan. He didn't say their plan sucks or they're clueless. He simply said he didn't see their plan. I wish he hadn't posted it at all. But now it's out there, publicly. I didn't take that as a rip. My opinion.

And I didn't say anything about you not having the right to your opinion or that your opinion should be the same as mine.

I also suppose someone pissed in your wheaties this morning and I know I won't be wasting any more time in this topic until later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(03-14-2017, 11:53 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I give you a hard time about some of your post but I will also give credit when you are right, and this is spot on. Prior to Dalton's freak injury he was playing like an MVP and this team looked ready to go places.

Hard to go anywhere with Mediocre Marv and His Merry Band of Tenured Bums at the helm.....and that's SOLELY at the doorstep of Mike Clown.

(03-15-2017, 10:37 AM)jj22 Wrote: And the front line employees always know more than the boss. Hate to break it to you. Who do you think the boss runs to when they need to know something? Right.....

Hell most of us trained them.

Where do you work where cashiers set set prices and make decisions on product selection?  Where do stock boys make decisions on corporate expansion? Where do burger flippers determine the size of the work force and the wages they earn.  Where do janitors design and implement marketing plans?

All you have proven by your comments is that you have have never had a real job.