(03-16-2017, 05:56 PM)Au165 Wrote: This is why I think it is so funny people like to add on set numbers to everyone's stop watch. If a 20 year scout clocks him at 4.5 and another one clocks him at a 4.55 the team is going with their guy of 20 years who says he is a 4.5 guy. There are teams who hand time the combine then hand time pro days and see no difference, that is one way they like to compare the preparation to see how serious they took each event or if they improved from one to another.

I stand by what I said, Williams is plenty fast to separate and play as a #1 in the NFL. I am not even saying he is a fit in Cincy, but he is good enough to be.

And I still stand by what many scouting reports have said and what I've seen from watching videos of him. He won't have an easy time separating vertically on the field. Williams wins via jump balls and using his size to create a large catch radius. Simply put, he's a big possession receiver.

Here is a good breakdown of Williams vs Davis.
https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/mike-williams-vs-corey-davis-2017-nfl-drafts-best-wr/

Specifically, Davis is a faster WR with much better route running. Williams is a clunky WR that wins purely with his size and leaping ability. 
I think Corey Davis is more similar to AJ Green than Williams.
Joe Goodberry tweeted that the reason AJ Green is so special is not because he's big with ball skills. It's because of his agility, flexibility, and route running as a bigger WR. 
https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/842483532429737989

If Williams is the type of WR you think would help this team the most, that's your opinion. I think this team needs more speed (faster than Williams), and a WR like that will be more beneficial to this team overall.

There is a way to get past all of this combine/pro day speed comparison controversy. Have colleges start using electronic timing. It's not like they can't afford it.

I will admit that Williams was one of the more impressive players I saw in the bowl games. At least in the ones I saw. I would prefer Davis and probably Ross even if we go wr in 1. We can get dudes that that are similar in size, speed and catch radius later. Than can block some too. They're called tight ends ?

Williams is a good player. There's no doubt. But I don't really view him as a top 10 player.

Davis and Ross are better route runners. Bot are faster. Both are more explosive in their cuts.

Williams does some things well, he is a tough competitor. But what does he add to the Bengals? Another big guy to make jump balls. Cool. That doesn't open things up down the field the much.

(03-16-2017, 02:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Daniel Jeremiah tweeted out that a scout had Mike Williams at 4.58 and 4.56 on his two 40-yard runs. This is as expected, as Okeana said, take the times run at pro day and tack on about .5. That would put Mike Williams right in that low 4.6 range. Maybe he really is just under 4.6, but he sure isn't sub-4.5. More like upper 4.5's to low 4.6's.

https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks/status/842380619329941504

Brandt 4.51, maycock 4.55. I think hes in the 4.50-4.55 range mostly.

(03-16-2017, 03:55 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: He would not/should not replace Green. 

Aj has 3 super elite years left.

(03-16-2017, 04:16 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Replacement? Already looking ahead to the 2020 season?

As in williams be the number 2 while j is still in hia prime, then reverse the roles after 3 years.

(03-16-2017, 04:21 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I don't think Charlton will be in play at #9.  Maybe if we move down, but I don't see that at 9.

I hope not but then that only leaves barnett, who if he runs another 4.9, will not bw in play at 259 pounds.

(03-16-2017, 07:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If Williams is the type of WR you think would help this team the most, that's your opinion. I think this team needs more speed (faster than Williams), and a WR like that will be more beneficial to this team overall.

I didn't say he was better for this team, im simply saying he is better period than Davis. Davis makes a majority of his plays running by slot corners. I watched 5 games of Davis and five of Williams. Williams will beat press man in the NFL against good CBs I don't know if Davis can as he has never had to for the most part.

My rule for first round WR is they have to be able to play on the outside and they have to be able to beat press man, I know Williams can do both because I have seen him do it all day against good CBs. One thing people should go back and look at is how bad Watsons deep ball was at times this year. A part of people thinking he lacks separation is because they were poorly thrown balls. Also something to note is he is a chain mover, his true best route is his slant on 3rd down he already is pro ready at using his body to shield the defender from the ball in this situation.

I don't want the Bengals going WR round one, but I think a team who is desperate to build a receiving group should start with Williams. He is best compared to Dez Bryant, and most teams would be happy with him as your #1.

I like Cooper Kupp in the 4th but I doubt he's there. I would rather have one of the top 3 TE's than MW.

I would be all for J. Ross if Dalton didn't under throw so much.

(03-17-2017, 12:46 AM)TKUHL Wrote: I would be all for J. Ross if Dalton didn't under throw so much.

I think Ross is all flash and offers little in the intermediate area. He lives on CBs bailing on his go route to go curl. He works very little to the inside of the field. I am really confident he will struggle to get off press because that's what Alabama did to him. What separates good college WRs from good pros, you have to be able to beat really good press corners.

(03-17-2017, 12:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think Ross is all flash and offers little in the intermediate area. He lives on CBs bailing on his go route to go curl. He works very little to the inside of the field. I am really confident he will struggle to get off press because that's what Alabama did to him. What separates good college WRs from good pros, you have to be able to beat really good press corners.

Lol makes my reason so elementary. I just don't think any of the WR's this year are top 10 talent. With Dalton I would rather have a big body tall TE that can run routes than just a speed guy. I think we go DE at 9 anyway but the closer the draft gets the more I think they will suprise us with another CB or OT. If it's not going to be a DE or stud LB then suprise us with a trade back for a RB/TE or then maybe a WR.

(03-17-2017, 01:22 AM)TKUHL Wrote: Lol makes my reason so elementary. I just don't think any of the WR's this year are top 10 talent. With Dalton I would rather have a big body tall TE that can run routes than just a speed guy. I think we go DE at 9 anyway but the closer the draft gets the more I think they will suprise us with another CB or OT. If it's not going to be a DE or stud LB then suprise us with a trade back for a RB/TE or then maybe a WR.

I agree with you in that this years group of WR isn't Julio/AJ, it could end up closer to the Kevin White Perriman year. I don't think any of the WR's should be on Cinci's radar in the 1st.

(03-17-2017, 12:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: I think Ross is all flash and offers little in the intermediate area. He lives on CBs bailing on his go route to go curl. He works very little to the inside of the field. I am really confident he will struggle to get off press because that's what Alabama did to him. What separates good college WRs from good pros, you have to be able to beat really good press corners.

Ross struggled in the Alabama game, but he's also got tape of having success against press man against guys like A'doree Jackson.  He can improve in that area, but it's not like he can't beat press man.  He also only needs to beat press man once to make a huge impact on the game.  Plus, how many teams are going to feel comfortable putting their #2 CB in press man against Ross?

Williams answered his speed questions.  Obviously, he's a double move guy, but he's not slow.  He's shown the most at beating press man and is the best with 50-50 balls. However, he's the worst of the three with his routes.  You have to give him points for being clutch and coming up big in big games against elite competition, however.

Davis hasn't faced much press coverage, and will have the steepest learning curve of the three.  His hands are a concern, with 16 drops over the last three years.  People think he's faster than Williams, but we don't know that and won't know it before the draft.  Several guys at the combine were surprisingly slow and it's easy to look comparatively fast playing MAC competition.

(03-17-2017, 12:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: Ross struggled in the Alabama game, but he's also got tape of having success against press man against guys like A'doree Jackson.  He can improve in that area, but it's not like he can't beat press man.  He also only needs to beat press man once to make a huge impact on the game.  Plus, how many teams are going to feel comfortable putting their #2 CB in press man against Ross?

Williams answered his speed questions.  Obviously, he's a double move guy, but he's not slow.  He's shown the most at beating press man and is the best with 50-50 balls. However, he's the worst of the three with his routes.  You have to give him points for being clutch and coming up big in big games against elite competition, however.

Davis hasn't faced much press coverage, and will have the steepest learning curve of the three.  His hands are a concern, with 16 drops over the last three years.  People think he's faster than Williams, but we don't know that and won't know it before the draft.  Several guys at the combine were surprisingly slow and it's easy to look comparatively fast playing MAC competition.

This seems like a relatively fair assessment.

I think a lot of teams will test Ross early with press man until he shows he can beat it. I think teams will use bunch formations and motion to free him from press off the line early, but the gimmick will get exposed eventually and he will have to prove he can do it on his own. If he can do that, I can see the D Jax comparisons, but if not I think he ends up more Tavon Austin.

I agree that Williams Routes aren't great, but I'd also argue he runs a more diverse route tree than the other guys. He is not a burner, but had adequate enough speed to get separation against a who's who of draftable CBs this year. I continue to look at him as a Dez Bryant type of ceiling guy, not a top 5 WR but a low end top 10.

Davis really scares me the more tape I watch. Everyone played him in off coverage it seemed. It is easy to run crisp routes and look good when you have an 8 yard cushion every play. A lot of his best plays came out of him in the slot running against non power 5 #3 cbs, this also really scares me. I think he has the biggest risk of the three of flaming out, but could also be the next AB. I have heard there is a big split in the scouting community on him, some love him some want nothing to do with him.

(03-17-2017, 12:44 AM)TKUHL Wrote: I like Cooper Kupp in the 4th but I doubt he's there. I would rather have one of the top 3 TE's than MW.

Kupp is my favorite prospect in this draft because he's from my school, but the Bengals will not take him. Most teams are going to pencil him in as a slot guy. We took our slot guy last year in Boyd.

Not stoked about WR in the 1st, but we could do worse than Mike Williams.

(03-17-2017, 04:10 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Kupp is my favorite prospect in this draft because he's from my school, but the Bengals will not take him. Most teams are going to pencil him in as a slot guy. We took our slot guy last year in Boyd.

He is going to be penciled in as slot guy because he is stereotyped as a white WR. He actually can play #2 and be successful in the NFL.

Adding wr talent isn't a bad thing for this club. We've seen the drop off when Green gets hurt.

Just so everyone knows..... His player comp is keenan allen. A body catcher who wins 50/50 balls and uses his body to gain seperation but dosent run great routes. Keenan allen ran a 4.75 40 time. I wonder how much better keenan allen would be if he was as fast as williams??