(03-16-2017, 04:21 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Uh no. No he wouldn't. Hill has the vision of a fruit bat and hits the hole softer than a 75-year old who forgot to take his little blue pill.

Jeremy may be more "talented" and built as a running back, but Burkhead is smarter and more determined. Hill has gotten lazier and/or weaker since his rookie season.

This made me spit coffee although it is 100% accurate.

(03-17-2017, 08:45 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Thanks for the link...I didn't know Doc was moving on.  Nice article.  I have always enjoyed him.  Anyone know where he is going?  Maybe that is why he felt free to take some shots?

It is one of the most liberating experiences....when you have a new job, and are leaving your old one.  You get to completely speak your mind without any fear of retribution.  You have to be careful, though, as if you get to experience this euphoria more than a couple times....well, it kind of sticks with you.  People always say they want honest feedback.  They don't.  Especially in business.  Haha.  

I can relate to Doc's self career-limiting actions to have a permanent home.  I have lived, and will live my life out in Centerville, Ohio.  It's my home.  I have been offered really good positions in Chicago, Boston, and Nashville (that one was really tough to turn down), but in the end I am happy with the careers I have had and I am happy that my kids have grown up with the same home they came home from the hospital to live in.  I don't begrudge others that want to climb the ladder, be in the rat race...in fact, I realized through a course at church on authentic leadership that it is a large part of what gives me fulfillment:  helping others get to where they want to be.  So that is why I have remained a coach and sales trainer for all these years in my various positions.  It fills me.  

Nice article, Doc, and best of luck wherever you end up.

I hear ya man, I've been offered jobs in other states in my industry, even promotions, but I like where I am, and my dad fell ill about four years ago.  I wouldn't dream of leaving.  That said, I took it that Doc had moved out of his current home?

(03-17-2017, 02:36 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Can you play...


Yes...apparently you can play the make up garbage and pretend it's real game more than once.

One big difference.  I was talking about things that have already happened.  I did not need to make any of that up.

(03-17-2017, 09:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: I hear ya man, I've been offered jobs in other states in my industry, even promotions, but I like where I am, and my dad fell ill about four years ago.  I wouldn't dream of leaving.  That said, I took it that Doc had moved out of his current home?

Sorry to hear about your dad.  That is the other side of the coin...my folks and my wife's folks both are local and we will be taking care of them.  We even turned down a move to Columbus because of them.  It is really nice having them nearby.  They come to a lot of my Son's baseball games and swim meets.  

People always ask me where I want to retire.  I always have the same answer:  Centerville, Ohio.  

Although I really want a lake house at Norris Lake in Tennessee.  

(03-17-2017, 09:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sorry to hear about your dad.  That is the other side of the coin...my folks and my wife's folks both are local and we will be taking care of them.  We even turned down a move to Columbus because of them.  It is really nice having them nearby.  They come to a lot of my Son's baseball games and swim meets.  

People always ask me where I want to retire.  I always have the same answer:  Centerville, Ohio.  

Although I really want a lake house at Norris Lake in Tennessee.  

Thanks brother.....he's a tough ol' sumbitch....he's getting stronger every day, and Medicare finally got him a motorized chair.  He's able to get out more, and become more self sufficient.  We just thank the Lord he's still with us.  Y'all are good peeps for doing that, it warms my heart to hear of folks like you that recognize what truly is important in this life.  Kudos to you sir.

I grew up on Lake Cumberland, my folks live about a half a mile from it, maybe I retire there.

(03-17-2017, 08:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This made me spit coffee although it is 100% accurate.

Major repped Pat on that one last night lmao!

(03-17-2017, 10:18 AM)Wyche Wrote: Thanks brother.....he's a tough ol' sumbitch....he's getting stronger every day, and Medicare finally got him a motorized chair.  He's able to get out more, and become more self sufficient.  We just thank the Lord he's still with us.  Y'all are good peeps for doing that, it warms my heart to hear of folks like you that recognize what truly is important in this life.  Kudos to you sir.

I grew up on Lake Cumberland, my folks live about a half a mile from it, maybe I retire there.

I just love that area....My wife jokes that we need to have a cool place so our kids come visit us.

And, yes, you only get one set of parents (usually) and if you are fortunate to have ones that give you love and direction (that you may not understand at the time, but you sure get it later) then you are so blessed and you owe them your love and gratitude in return.  

Wow...this thread went sappy  .  Glad to hear your pops is improving!  

(03-16-2017, 06:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The Bengals didn't get good production from Stacy Andrews. What proof do you have that Stacy Andrews had "good production" with Cincinnati? I don't ever recall seeing anyone say that Stacy Andrews was "good" back in the mid-2000's. The Eagles simply overpaid for a mediocre-at-best talent and it bit them in the butt.

Stacy basically gave us one good year, 2007, filling in for Willie. We tagged him and made him the starting RT in 2008. He proceeded to be one of the worst RTs in the NFL that season under PA's tutelage.

(03-16-2017, 06:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just because the Eagle coaches could not get the same production from him as PA.  That happens to a lot of bengal O-linemen who get good deals based on how they played under PA, but underperform for their new teams.  Like Livings, Steinbach, and Collins.

Too many people refuse to acknowledge that not all free agents live up to their contracts.

(12-26-2016, 03:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Too mant people refuse to acknowledge that not all free agents live up to their contracts with their new teams.

Andrews', Livings', and Collins' new team got rid of each of them after a single season. I guess all three just weren't able to retain anything from the Process.

(03-17-2017, 04:18 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Stacy basically gave us one good year, 2007, filling in for Willie. We tagged him and made him the starting RT in 2008. He proceeded to be one of the worst RTs in the NFL that season under PA's tutelage.

I've said it many times that it is much easier to come off the bench and do a good job.  However, when you become "the man", every team already has film, they know you, they have already diagnosed you.

(03-16-2017, 04:54 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: It's true. We drafted his replacement in 2015, and now we're bringing him back in 2017 to replace a guy who we kept rolling money over to re-sign who we didn't re-sign.

This is what has me frothing at the mouth!   Fans get BS from the FO, but no respect.

(03-17-2017, 04:18 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: He proceeded to be one of the worst RTs in the NFL that season under PA's tutelage.

No he didn't.

I trust the process......the Patriots process! As far as our process, Livings, Collins, and Andrews; give me a break! Andrews was so large he was fun to watch, and I kept anticipating great things that never happened, Livings, I was ecstatic when someone else was dumb enough to take him off our hands, and so was nearly everyone else on here; but none of us thought it was because of the great job he done here... we simply thought the Cowboys were on crack! As far as Collins, he filled in admirably here, but as I think Sunset said, it's easier to step up and fill in than it is to be "the man". He followed the money and weather out of town, and just like the other two became history; old news.

(03-18-2017, 10:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No he didn't.

The first question to ask about any free agent.

(02-15-2016, 04:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why is he a free agent?

Because he wasn't even average.

(03-16-2017, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Stacy Andrews never even played a meaningful snap of football in college

Yet, the Bengals drafted him in the fourth round based upon the Process' expert scouting evaluation of those zero meaningful snaps. Plus thanks to the Process' input, "Willie Anderson was great leader, but the Bengals shit on him and cut him" while placing the franchise tag and paying Andrews Top 5 O-line money to be below average.

He was a free agent because he was awful.  He didn't live up to his free agent contract because he was awful. The Eagles forced him to renegotiate his contract and traded him after a single season because he was awful.  The Seahawks cut him after a single season because he was awful.

It took one season for two different teams to realize he was awful while it took five seasons for the Process to come to the same conclusion.

If the Process was such a great coach why didn't Andrews, Livings, or Collins learn anything from his coaching?  Why couldn't the Process coach Mathis?  Because that is the process.

(03-17-2017, 08:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Too many people refuse to acknowledge that not all free agents live up to their contracts.


Andrews', Livings', and Collins' new team got rid of each of them after a single season. I guess all three just weren't able to retain anything from the Process.

Your post actually offered great insight as to why the Bengals are so limited in Free Agency from outside their organization.  I would venture to say MOST free agents don't live up to their contracts and MOST never see the entirety of their contract.  We know the Bengals honor their contracts more than any other team and would likely be holding on to more bad deals with FA from the outside.

(03-18-2017, 01:06 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If the Process was such a great coach why didn't Andrews, Livings, or Collins learn anything from his coaching? 

I realize you may disagree, but NFL professionals thought enough of these players production under Alexander to pay them very well for theoir services.  And they were 2 fourth round picks and one undrafted free agent.  That is good coaching, not bad.

(03-18-2017, 01:06 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote:  Why couldn't the Process coach Mathis?

Not even sure what you mean.  Are you claiming Mathis was an elite player when he signed with the Bengals?  Because why would an elite player be released twice in two years by two different teams?

(03-17-2017, 09:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: I hear ya man, I've been offered jobs in other states in my industry, even promotions, but I like where I am, and my dad fell ill about four years ago.  I wouldn't dream of leaving.  That said, I took it that Doc had moved out of his current home?

Hate to hear about your dad. Cherish every moment you get friend and kudos to you for staying put. 

Wish I had moved back to Ohio when my father was fighting his battle. Fought valiantly for 6 years before yielding. 

We had been attending Bengals games together for a little over 20 years when he passed and chose to be cremated. 

So now our seats at PBS is like going to visit him again. Miss him dearly and wish the Bengals would have won a playyoff game or two while he was in attendance. Mostly they were horrid during that time with only a few playoff appearances. 

They started getting better right afterwards. Oh well it is what it is and that hole in my heart will always remain. 


God bless your father.  

(03-19-2017, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I realize you may disagree, but NFL professionals thought enough of these players production under Alexander to pay them very well for theoir services.  And they were 2 fourth round picks and one undrafted free agent.  That is good coaching, not bad.


Not even sure what you mean.  Are you claiming Mathis was an elite player when he signed with the Bengals?  Because why would an elite player be released twice in two years by two different teams?

The issue is why couldn't Alexander and his noted "process" result in Mathis being an All-Pro caliber OL here?   Mathis obviously possessed the tools to be regarded as one the top players at his position. Seems like a failure on the part of his position coach while he was in Cincy, wouldn't you agree?

(03-19-2017, 09:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I realize you may disagree, but NFL professionals thought enough of these players production under Alexander to pay them very well for theoir services.  And they were 2 fourth round picks and one undrafted free agent.  That is good coaching, not bad.

That's bad scouting, not good coaching. All three teams admitted they were wrong after one year. Hell, it took you two years after Bratkowski left to finally admit he was predictable.

Quote:Not even sure what you mean.  Are you claiming Mathis was an elite player when he signed with the Bengals?  Because why would an elite player be released twice in two years by two different teams?

I'm not claiming Mathis was elite when he signed with Cincy or while the Process coached him. I'm claiming he was elite after he left. The Process wasn't able to recognize, coach, or motivate, him to his reach his potential.

(03-20-2017, 01:02 AM)JumboTron Wrote: The issue is why couldn't Alexander and his noted "process" result in Mathis being an All-Pro caliber OL here?   Mathis obviously possessed the tools to be regarded as one the top players at his position.  Seems like a failure on the part of his position coach while he was in Cincy, wouldn't you agree?

(03-20-2017, 02:01 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm not claiming Mathis was elite when he signed with Cincy or while the Process coached him. I'm claiming he was elite after he left. The Process wasn't able to recognize, coach, or motivate, him to his reach his potential.

Mathis played great under Alexander in '09.  He was starting in fron of Livings until he got injured.  But in 2010 he was fat and out of shape.  Mathis evcen posted a video on line showing how bad out of shape he was at the end of the 2010 season.  That is why he had to settle for a league minimum contract in free agency.