(07-29-2015, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I have zero idea how anybody can “respect” what this guy did. Folks now hear him say “lack of moves” and automatically point the finger at the coach that has taken us from laughing stock to a team you can write in to the post season year in and year out. This team did all they could to keep Carson happy while he was here. Bump Carson Palmer and anyone that respects what he did to this team. I hope his former team mates feel the exact same way.

I have no idea why Marvin Lewis threatening to quit and then caving in makes him any better than Carson, much less some sort of laudable savior.  But again, people are going to just pretend Marvin never made any "change this or I'm gone" demands of Mike Brown.

(07-29-2015, 10:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Coming from someone who is a Bengals fan with friends who are Steelers, Giants, Patriots, and Packers fans I can assure you winning the Super Bowl is a happiness that doesn't wear off.  I can also tell you not one of them has envied me for liking at team that stalls out in the opening round 6 times in the past decade.  I might just have mean friends, though.

1983 was so long ago in a sports context.  I was 5 years old.  A huge portion of their fan base probably wasn't even born yet.  Safe to say that the Bengals have given their fan base a more exciting product over the last 4 years than the Raiders have.  

I love the fact that the 90 Reds won the World Series, but that excitement sort of has worn off already.  

(07-29-2015, 11:37 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: 1983 was so long ago in a sports context.  I was 5 years old.  A huge portion of their fan base probably wasn't even born yet.  Safe to say that the Bengals have given their fan base a more exciting product over the last 4 years than the Raiders have.  

I love the fact that the 90 Reds won the World Series, but that excitement sort of has worn off already.  

Ok, so you love the fact that the Reds won in 1990....I'm a Cubs fan and I envy you.  It's all relative.

(07-29-2015, 09:38 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I am sure their fans are still savoring that.

Nah.....I'd say they are savoring those multiple Rings though......hell, I'm still savoring 198 effing 8! :snark:

(07-29-2015, 11:45 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok, so you love the fact that the Reds won in 1990....I'm a Cubs fan and I envy you.  It's all relative.

Sports is generally about what have you done for me lately.  What happened in 1990 happened in 1990.  Doesn't make me feel any better about the product on the field for the Reds today.  

(07-30-2015, 12:05 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Sports is generally about what have you done for me lately.  What happened in 1990 happened in 1990.  Doesn't make me feel any better about the product on the field for the Reds today.  

So 4 straight one-n-dones today is worth what?  A Super Bowl win 15 years ago?  Is there a ratio for this?  We're actually bordering on something pretty interesting here.

(07-30-2015, 12:18 AM)Nately120 Wrote: So 4 straight one-n-dones today is worth what?  A Super Bowl win 15 years ago?  Is there a ratio for this?  We're actually bordering on something pretty interesting here.

The Raiders didn't win a SB 15 years ago.  And in between those one n dones were 16 games seasons in which week in and week out the Bengals were playing in meaningful games, which made for some very fun weekends over the course of those seasons.  Surely there is something to be said for that.  It's sort of why I like going to the games.

Now on the other hand, my favorite baseball team was done playing meaningful games after the first month of the season.  So what they won a World Series trophy 25 years ago.  That really isn't doing much for me today.  

(07-30-2015, 12:22 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: The Raiders didn't win a SB 15 years ago.  And in between those one n dones were 16 games seasons in which week in and week out the Bengals were playing in meaningful games, which made for some very fun weekends over the course of those seasons.  Surely there is something to be said for that.  It's sort of why I like going to the games.

Now on the other hand, my favorite baseball team was done playing meaningful games after the first month of the season.  So what they won a World Series trophy 25 years ago.  That really isn't doing much for me today.  

Like I said, to each his own.  4 straight 12th places does less for me than being 1st place in the world 15+ years ago...er, I think.  Like you said, we can say the Bengals have played meaningful football for 16 weeks for the past 4 years, but when it terminates in 4-straight embarrassing opening weekends it might lose some luster.

As exciting as playoff football can get I wasn't exactly sailing on cloud 9 happy for at least 2 of the 4 games, but I'm a downer.

(07-30-2015, 12:32 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Like I said, to each his own.  4 straight 12th places does less for me than being 1st place in the world 15+ years ago...er, I think.  Like you said, we can say the Bengals have played meaningful football for 16 weeks for the past 4 years, but when it terminates in 4-straight embarrassing opening weekends it might lose some luster.

As exciting as playoff football can get I wasn't exactly sailing on cloud 9 happy for at least 2 of the 4 games, but I'm a downer.

I guess.  There is an entire 16-game season that leads to those playoff games every year.  You seem to be discounting the importance and the excitement of those games week in and week out.  

It's a lot more fun watching a team that is playing every week for a shot at the playoffs rather than draft seeding.

And 15 years ago is an awfully long time to be relishing a victory.  Don't know about you, but my sports attention span is a helluva lot shorter than that.

(07-29-2015, 06:13 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Carson leaves because he wants to play for a more successful team.

Instead, he goes to the Raiders who haven't had the success the Bengals have had since he left. 

That's the only point I'm making.  Nobody is all that "envioius" of what he's accomplished since he left here.

I could care less.  Just pointing out if he wanted to play for a more successful franchise he should have stayed put.  

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/559644-marvin-lewis-will-not-return-to-coach-bengals-unless-major-changes-are-made

Marvin Lewis demanded changes or he wouldn't return. Carson Palmer demanded changes or he wouldn't return.  Mike Brown called Marvin's bluff and he caved. Unlike Marvin, Carson wasn't bluffing and didn't cave in to Mike Brown's unwillingness to make changes both the head coach and franchise quarterback thought were needed to be competitive.  Carson didn't ask to go to the Raiders. He asked for changes to improve the team or a trade.

After Marvin signed his extension in 2011, Mike announced there wouldn't be any changes. Since then Mike Brown has slowly ceded control to others little by little. The changes Marvin was demanding are being implemented at a snails pace such as an expanded scouting department. And I'll be damned, but the Bengals are the most competitive they have been during the Mike Brown era as a result of those changes.

(07-30-2015, 12:32 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Like I said, to each his own.  4 straight 12th places does less for me than being 1st place in the world 15+ years ago...er, I think.  Like you said, we can say the Bengals have played meaningful football for 16 weeks for the past 4 years, but when it terminates in 4-straight embarrassing opening weekends it might lose some luster.

As exciting as playoff football can get I wasn't exactly sailing on cloud 9 happy for at least 2 of the 4 games, but I'm a downer.

(07-29-2015, 07:46 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: That quote is not recent.  It's a couple of years old, although I can't remember where I originally read it.  I seem to recall reading it in the newspaper while I was in Cali (San Jose's, maybe?).  I seem to recall lI aughed to myself while reading the part about getting back 3 times a year, as it was his first offseason as a Raider.

Getting back 3 times a year is 3 times a year more than I get back and I grew up in southern Ohio. Hell, it took 18 years to plot my escape, don't know why anyone would want to go back.

(07-29-2015, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I tried to stay quiet but I cannot do it any longer.

WTF do folks expect Carson to say?
“I quit because my wife told me to”
“I quit because the fans hurt my feelings”
“I quit because I missed the West Coast”

The bottom line is the guy quit on his team, city, and team mates and he did this while there was a lockout going on. At the time when a team needed a leader the most; Carson was fueling his selfish needs and left his incompetent brother trying to put together the pieces.

I have zero idea how anybody can “respect” what this guy did. Folks now hear him say “lack of moves” and automatically point the finger at the coach that has taken us from laughing stock to a team you can write in to the post season year in and year out. This team did all they could to keep Carson happy while he was here. Bump Carson Palmer and anyone that respects what he did to this team. I hope his former team mates feel the exact same way.

You know what they say, "Better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

(07-30-2015, 12:42 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I guess.  There is an entire 16-game season that leads to those playoff games every year.  You seem to be discounting the importance and the excitement of those games week in and week out.  

It's a lot more fun watching a team that is playing every week for a shot at the playoffs rather than draft seeding.

I don't disagree with you, but being from Pittsburgh I recall late in the 2013 season sitting at the Sunday night game between the Bengals and Steelers at Heinz Field with my cousin (also a Bengals fan) and 2 Steelers fan friends and the Bengals were a lock to win the division but were getting shellacked by the Steelers.  A guy behind us says (not to us) "Who cares, let the Bengals make the playoffs, they won't do anything."  I'm not saying this guy was a visionary (sour grapist, is more like it) but that's what the Bengals have become until further notice (and that guy said it 2 losses ago).

Yea, the regular season is exciting, but we're the opposite of the Ravens, Giants, or Steelers; teams that make the playoffs and people think "Look out, this team can go on a run."  By this point it seems like people around here, and even experts, are talking about this being the make or break year Dalton wins or doesn't win a playoff game.  People already assume the Bengals will make it, so the important stuff isn't going to happen for months after the season starts, I guess.

Anyways, I think we're getting a little off topic but good discussion.

(07-30-2015, 10:24 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't disagree with you, but being from Pittsburgh I recall late in the 2013 season sitting at the Sunday night game between the Bengals and Steelers at Heinz Field with my cousin (also a Bengals fan) and 2 Steelers fan friends and the Bengals were a lock to win the division but were getting shellacked by the Steelers.  A guy behind us says (not to us) "Who cares, let the Bengals make the playoffs, they won't do anything."  I'm not saying this guy was a visionary (sour grapist, is more like it) but that's what the Bengals have become until further notice (and that guy said it 2 losses ago).

Yea, the regular season is exciting, but we're the opposite of the Ravens, Giants, or Steelers; teams that make the playoffs and people think "Look out, this team can go on a run."  By this point it seems like people around here, and even experts, are talking about this being the make or break year Dalton wins or doesn't win a playoff game.  People already assume the Bengals will make it, so the important stuff isn't going to happen for months after the season starts, I guess.

Anyways, I think we're getting a little off topic but good discussion.

The problem is, it never seems to be the make or break year for Mediocre Marv and his Merry Band of Tenured Bums. :snark:

(07-30-2015, 10:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: The problem is, it never seems to be the make or break year for Mediocre Marv and his Merry Band of Tenured Bums. :snark:

Yep!!!  And until that changes, which it probably won't, we can expect the same results every year. 

But Hey!!!  At least we are making the playoffs, right?  We may get embarrassed in them, but at least we're making them. 

(07-30-2015, 12:42 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I guess.  There is an entire 16-game season that leads to those playoff games every year.  You seem to be discounting the importance and the excitement of those games week in and week out.  

It's a lot more fun watching a team that is playing every week for a shot at the playoffs rather than draft seeding.

And 15 years ago is an awfully long time to be relishing a victory.  Don't know about you, but my sports attention span is a helluva lot shorter than that.

This.


Some people act like the enjoyment that the experienced with regular season wins never happened once we lose a playoff game.  But the fact is that the future can not change the present, and the past can not change the present.

When we win a regular season game I am happy.  I don't say "I don't know if I am happy or not because I have to wait and see what happens in the playoffs".  And even if we win a Super Bowl that does not make me happy in subsequent years when we lose regular season games.  I don't say "Well the Steelers just beat us but I am happy because we won a Super Bowl a few years ago."

Winning is fun and losing is bad.  But neither the future nor the past changes what happens in the present.

(07-30-2015, 10:47 AM)PApinhead Wrote: Yep!!!  And until that changes, which it probably won't, we can expect the same results every year. 

Right, because nothing has ever changed here with the same coaches.  We ALWAYS made the playoffs every year and never got any better.  

That is why it is impossible for us to get any better now, because we have alwasy been on this exact same level and never improved in any way.

What brilliant logic.

(07-30-2015, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.


Some people act like the enjoyment that the experienced with regular season wins never happened once we lose a playoff game.  But the fact is that the future can not change the present, and the past can not change the present.

When we win a regular season game I am happy.  I don't say "I don't know if I am happy or not because I have to wait and see what happens in the playoffs".  And even if we win a Super Bowl that does not make me happy in subsequent years when we lose regular season games.  I don't say "Well the Steelers just beat us but I am happy because we won a Super Bowl a few years ago."

Winning is fun and losing is bad.  But neither the future nor the past changes what happens in the present.

That's not true at all. Both the past and the future affect what you're doing in the present. The past influences what you do now because hopefully you learn from your mistakes and don't repeat them. Planning for the future influences what you're doing in the present.

I will show you . . .

(07-30-2015, 12:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Right, because nothing has ever changed here with the same coaches.  We ALWAYS made the playoffs every year and never got any better.  

That is why it is impossible for us to get any better now, because we have alwasy been on this exact same level and never improved in any way.

What brilliant logic.

You're present defense of the coaching staff is based upon?  The past.

You currently want to keep the coaches for?  The future.

Two examples of the past and future changing what you're doing in the present.