BTW the problem with the running game is mostly on the O-line, but neither Hill nor Bernard were able to make anyone miss a tackle last year. If RB is really good he will suffer behind a poor line, but he will also occasionally make someone miss or power his way through a tackle to make a 20 yard run. We saw none of that last year.

(03-30-2017, 01:23 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: For those running with the whole '2 yard Jeremy' thing...Gio actually had a higher percentage of 2 yards or less carries than Hill did last year.

When both of your backs are getting limited on a regular basis, either both backs suck...or there's a very real problem with the O-line personnel and/or scheme as far as run blocking.

When you look at Bengals O-lines over the past 10-15 years, they are almost always in the 20's in yards per carry. 

The o line is a BIG issue.  That said, Bernard had done better prior to last season (probably due to the trainwreck at RT), but Hill struggled in 2015 as well.

(03-30-2017, 04:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How did you know when this was going to happen?  Or did you just assume it was going to happen every time so that you could insure maximum frustration?

FYI Hill failed to gain yardage on a first down carry less than twice a game last year (27).  So if you really are capable of accurately predicting such a rare occurance I would love to know how you do it.

I knew it was going to happen based on past tendencies. Its not really all that crazy....really. 

I dont know what that stat really means, where you got it, or how it compares to the rest of the teams in the league. That could be really good, or God awful. I need some more context then you telling me its good.

I would also be interested to see the same stat you are using with regard to less than 2 yards a carry. Im thinking thats not too great.

(03-30-2017, 05:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I knew it was going to happen based on past tendencies. Its not really all that crazy....really.

I mean how exactly did you know which two times in a gaem Hill was going to get stuffed on a first down run?

It doesn't happen very ofet so there must be some way you could tell.

Unless, like I said, you just "knew" it would happen every time then crowed about being right the few times that it really did happen.

(03-30-2017, 04:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How did you know when this was going to happen?  Or did you just assume it was going to happen every time so that you could insure maximum frustration?

FYI Hill failed to gain yardage on a first down carry less than twice a game last year (27).  So if you really are capable of accurately predicting such a rare occurance I would love to know how you do it.

(03-30-2017, 05:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I mean how exactly did you know which two times in a gaem Hill was going to get stuffed on a first down run?

It doesn't happen very ofet so there must be some way you could tell.

Unless, like I said, you just "knew" it would happen every time then crowed about being right the few times that it really did happen.

Way to only use a partial stat, to lessen the severity of what others are claiming to be true.  Why don't you post the numbers for all downs that Hill failed to gain yardage?  Or even show how many times he gained 2 yds or less on a 1st down carry? 

I mean, I really know why you didn't show anymore of a stat than was necessary to "prove" your point.  But, the fact is that the poor OL play has forced not one, but two very good RBs to have to change their game, go away from what they are naturally good at, in order to compensate.  It's not working.  Do you really think that it's the RBs fault? 

I say the fault goes on the OL, and we all know who is in charge of the OL.  However, you don't like to criticize that man, or hold him accountable for his shortcomings in producing an effective unit.

(03-30-2017, 05:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I dont know what that stat really means, where you got it, or how it compares to the rest of the teams in the league. That could be really good, or God awful. I need some more context then you telling me its good.

Hill failed to gain any yards on 27 of 131 first down carries (including first and goal).  That is 20.6%

The NFL totals are 1568 carries failing to gain yards on first down out of 7329.  That is 21.3%

So Hill's percentage was actually better than the league average.

(03-30-2017, 05:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I would also be interested to see the same stat you are using with regard to less than 2 yards a carry. Im thinking thats not too great.

Last year Hill was held to 2 yards or less on 108 of 222 carries.  That is 48.6%

The league total was 6062 carries of 2 yards or less of a total 13,321 carries.  That is 45.5%

So Hill is a little (very little) below league average, but that could be attributed to him getting a higher percentage of carries in short yardage situations.

(03-29-2017, 11:32 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Just for kicks I thought I would go back and look at our rushing production last year.  I can't even describe how bad it was.

Other than the 2 Cleveland games (Hill - 168 & 111) and the meaningless Week 17 game (Burkhead 119), we had ZERO 100 yard rushing performances by our RBs.  That's pathetic.

Even worse?

In HALF of our games, the leading rusher had 50 yards or less.

Of course the running game starts in the trenches but you are correct we definately need a new RB on play alone.

Hill wasn't just bad running the ball, Gio was too and is coming off of injury, Rex left for greener pastures.

Fournette has been running up my board and i love the way Dalvin Cook runs, but i am hoping for an End early.

McCaffrey i would love if he fell to the 2nd, Mixon is a talent but the guy was just a dumbass that night, i don't like
the message this would send. Kamara and Foreman are a couple i like in the 3rd or 4th round.

A couple guys i know about in Utah are really good from what i saw...

Jamal and Joe Williams out of BYU and Utah.

Just get it over with and sign Legarrette Blount.

We like Patriots cast aways.

He is probably not fond of the Steelers.

He is in his twilight.

Again, after the Draft we will be loaded at RB

Yes the O Line was a problem in 2016, but the O line could be better in 2017. Again I say wait until after the draft and preseason games.

You people saying Hill never gains yards are wrong. I do hate the plays Zampese sent in where Hill was running left or right on sweeps for lost yardage. That is not Hills game. Hill is good up the middle, between the guards, off tackle and why he is tough in the Red Zone and one of best NFL Touchdown Goal Line Runners. Zampese was new and any time I see Hill on a long sweep or delayed mickey mouse play I know the NFL D is too fast and will stuff it. Hill is good at what he does, pounding the ball straight at the D BANG, BANG, BANG, not that delayed nonsense or running towards the sideline. You aim Hill at the goal line and let him hammer away.

I would like to see Bengals get away from the split O Line nonsense because it doesn't work. Plus if Andre Smith is the right guard he will be no pulling guard. This will be the old Bengals with 5 guys each over 300 pounds doing mostly power blocking and pass blocking. The Bengals Gargantuan Dinosaur Line Bengals have used before with success. That nonsense of running Ced and Fisher out with a WR is stupid. Ced and Fisher have enough to do learning their positions. Plus I don't want Green and Lafell catching the ball behind the line of scrimmage. I want the O Line blocking and Green, Lafell, Boyd, Eifert going down field eating up yardage. There are Brat and Gruden and Hue Jackson and Zampese plays I would take out of the playbook and burn because they are lousy. Zampese and family did great with Chargers, Rams, Packers offenses and the great passing games. Hill is no Marshall Faulk or James Brooks though. Zampese has to get away from this split O Line nonsense and way too much sideline to sideline garbage. Put the ball down field.

Look, I could see the Gruden double tight end with Gresham and Eifert but normally, NO....and I never liked the Hue Jackson split O Line because it never works. Those plays just stink. Zampese kept trying to run Hues offense and THAT never works....With the pass catchers we have and the runners we have and the rebuilding O Line we have, I would take this garbage out of the playbook. Way too much sideline to sideline and putting tackles out with pass catchers for this behind the yard of scrimmage Bratkowski rinky dink....We should be stretching the field and chess board with Green, Lafell, Eifert, Boyd to help out the run game instead of keeping all our pieces behind the line of scrimmage. That is gutless stupid football. No guts, no glory. That sideline to sideline garbage behind the line of scrimmage isn't working because NFL defenses are just too fast for that nonsense. NFL defenses would have a hard time covering Green, LaFell, Eifert, Boyd ALL going down field and THAT is what we should exploit in 2017, and run right at them enough to keep the D even more confused. Get away from the rinky dink garbage, man up and hit them with our Pro Bowlers

Again, after the draft we will be loaded at RB and we will get some O line help also.

I think Gio may be a little gun shy after the cheap shot during the Bengal-steeler game where he was knocked out. He has not been as good since. Friggen love to watch him play, or used to anyway. Hope he regains his confidence next year and sets the fear aside. Tough to do for sure but hope he is capable of doing it.

(03-30-2017, 06:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year Hill was held to 2 yards or less on 108 of 222 carries.  That is 48.6%

The league total was 6062 carries of 2 yards or less of a total 13,321 carries.  That is 45.5%

So Hill is a little (very little) below league average, but that could be attributed to him getting a higher percentage of carries in short yardage situations.

Jeremy Hill sucks. 

Not going to defend our RB's and fresh legs are always welcome if they can pick up the blitz as well.

But the OL was just flat out horrid !!!!

I think a lot of that side to side nonsense can be attributed to Zampese. Something else I noticed about Hill last year, and this one is all on him...he seemed to try to make plays based on the previous weeks' highlight reels instead of keeping to his own running style. In particular, that "up and over" thing, which struck me as an excellent way to get yourself hurt. Jeez, just be you Jeremy!

And I'd be happy if the Bengals drafted McCaffrey.

Honestly, I think the opposite is true. I think the Bengals need to air the ball out more and the running game will follow. The team tries so hard to be run first or completely balanced on offense. It's a passing league and while the line was bad at pass pro last year it was still better than their run blocking. So I say let Dalton air it out and be more attacking and then follow it up with the running game. We have the QB, we have playmakers at WR and TE, and a healthy Gio is solid out of the backfield. Instead of throwing it 30 times and running it 30 times, go ahead and throw it 40-45 times and run it 20.

(03-30-2017, 12:01 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Need to fix the OL first. Probably starting by getting rid of a guy who can't coach an OL to run block.

Really good RBs can thankfully be found in all of the rounds of the draft. Unless they have holes, they're going to suck, though. Think about how amazing Steven Jackson would have been if the team around him was ever worth a damn. He could have been an all time great, 1st ballot HoFer. Instead he'll go down as a good RB. Putting a RB behind this OL with this OL Coach is a recipe for disaster, so don't bother using a high pick on one for now.

I agree, the bigger issue is the OL. Having said that, I like Fournette, but I like Cook more. Cook will be faster getting through the hole and I see his abilities close to a Marshall Faulk receiving. I would be tempted to grab him at 9 or we trade back a few spots if my 100% for sure pass rushing DE was gone.

(03-31-2017, 01:16 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Honestly, I think the opposite is true. I think the Bengals need to air the ball out more and the running game will follow. The team tries so hard to be run first or completely balanced on offense. It's a passing league and while the line was bad at pass pro last year it was still better than their run blocking. So I say let Dalton air it out and be more attacking and then follow it up with the running game. We have the QB, we have playmakers at WR and TE, and a healthy Gio is solid out of the backfield. Instead of throwing it 30 times and running it 30 times, go ahead and throw it 40-45 times and run it 20.

I see your point and don't totally disagree, but only issues we face is more potential bad weather. It is not rain or snow that concerns me, it is wind and extreme cold making it harder for the passing  game. In September, October not a major concern. But in December and January months I want to be peaking, it could be a problem.

(03-31-2017, 01:16 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Honestly, I think the opposite is true. I think the Bengals need to air the ball out more and the running game will follow. The team tries so hard to be run first or completely balanced on offense. It's a passing league and while the line was bad at pass pro last year it was still better than their run blocking. So I say let Dalton air it out and be more attacking and then follow it up with the running game. We have the QB, we have playmakers at WR and TE, and a healthy Gio is solid out of the backfield. Instead of throwing it 30 times and running it 30 times, go ahead and throw it 40-45 times and run it 20.

Eh, i do think we should try and open up the running game with the passing game more often, not the other way around...

but throwing it that many times rarely ends up being a winning scenario.

More like holy shit we need a center that can run block.

(03-31-2017, 04:36 PM)J24 Wrote: More like holy shit we need an offensive line that can run block.

Fix in bold.