(07-29-2015, 04:32 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Please elaborate on the "high round WRs" the Bengals would be stacking upon. 

And Dalton has a capable backup that the Bengals like in McCarron. 

If you read my post, I wasn't saying they shouldn't have taken a tackle, but taking two when you had a glaring need that could help create synergy for the entire offense and you make both selections that will be assuredly backups at best this season didn't make any sense. 

If you watched last season and didn't grasp that nearly ALL of the Bengal's WRs have difficulty generating separation against quality CBs, then that is a you problem.   The roster was bolstered with a FA WR that hasn't done a thing in years and a seventh round selection. 

Again, sliding to the top of round 2 could have possibly yielded a second 2nd round selection as well, allowing the Bengals to get the WR, the OT, and another BPA instead of two OTs that will likely not see much action this season. 

If you don't understand that Sanu isn't going to be covered by top CBs and guys like Brandon Tate, Greg Little, and Cobi Hamilton won't even see the field next year, then that's a "you" problem.

Again, the injuries were caused by freak accidents and could happen at ANY position. You can't draft guys highly at every single position just because injury may occur.

WR wasn't close to being a "glaring need" in this past draft no matter how many times you and 1 other person claim that it was. You also ignored how we have 2 tackles potentially leaving next year and that's a position you want to be prepared to replace, where a WR in next years draft can come in and immediately contribute. Not to mention we will still have AJ, Eifert, a second year Kroft, Bernard, Hill, and I'm sure they'll re-sign at least 1 of Sanu or Jones. Taking 2 of the top T in the entire draft was an excellent move by the Bengals to prepare for next season. At first I didn't like it either but it just makes more and more sense if you think about it.

I liked James Wright a lot, and totally disagree with that Fred guy who says we haven't seen anything to suggest he can be a good NFL player. I saw plenty.

Good size. Good speed. Good hands. Natural pass catcher.
Runs good routes. Looks really smooth.

Most impressive thing to me was his feet and body control. He seems to be in the mold of guys like Chad Johnson and Marvin Jones in that regard - making catches on the sidelines and tapping his feet. Stuff like that.

Hope he can come back from whatever his injury was.

(07-29-2015, 08:32 PM)djs7685 Wrote: If you don't understand that Sanu isn't going to be covered by top CBs and guys like Brandon Tate, Greg Little, and Cobi Hamilton won't even see the field next year, then that's a "you" problem.

Again, the injuries were caused by freak accidents and could happen at ANY position. You can't draft guys highly at every single position just because injury may occur.

WR wasn't close to being a "glaring need" in this past draft no matter how many times you and 1 other person claim that it was. You also ignored how we have 2 tackles potentially leaving next year and that's a position you want to be prepared to replace, where a WR in next years draft can come in and immediately contribute. Not to mention we will still have AJ, Eifert, a second year Kroft, Bernard, Hill, and I'm sure they'll re-sign at least 1 of Sanu or Jones. Taking 2 of the top T in the entire draft was an excellent move by the Bengals to prepare for next season. At first I didn't like it either but it just makes more and more sense if you think about it.

You are the only one who believes that WR wasn't a need for this team.  Look at any ESPN, draft guru's article, etc. they all listed WR as a need. 

And for Sanu to avoid being covered by at least a #2 CB, you will need Marvin Jones healthy for all 16 games.  There is such a drop off after Sanu.  That is why depth at WR and a speedster was a need for this team.  You like to talk about how the OTs are in their contract years, but you fail to realize that AJ, Sanu, and Marvin Jones are ALL in the final year of their rookie deal.  Drafting a WR would have provided security for next year, as well as depth in the event that MLJ isn't back 100% or he doesn't make 16 games healthy.

And nowhere did I state that you have to draft highly at every single position in case of "freak" injuries.  The Bengals have solid depth at many position groups.  WR isn't one of them.  And as I have now stated in three successive posts, I was not against drafting the two tackles.  Sliding in Round 1 could have allowed for two quality tackles AND a WR. 

(07-30-2015, 10:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: You are the only one who believes that WR wasn't a need for this team.  Look at any ESPN, draft guru's article, etc. they all listed WR as a need. 

And for Sanu to avoid being covered by at least a #2 CB, you will need Marvin Jones healthy for all 16 games.  There is such a drop off after Sanu.  That is why depth at WR and a speedster was a need for this team.  You like to talk about how the OTs are in their contract years, but you fail to realize that AJ, Sanu, and Marvin Jones are ALL in the final year of their rookie deal.  Drafting a WR would have provided security for next year, as well as depth in the event that MLJ isn't back 100% or he doesn't make 16 games healthy.

And nowhere did I state that you have to draft highly at every single position in case of "freak" injuries.  The Bengals have solid depth at many position groups.  WR isn't one of them.  And as I have now stated in three successive posts, I was not against drafting the two tackles.  Sliding in Round 1 could have allowed for two quality tackles AND a WR. 

I highly doubt that I'm the only person that didn't see WR as a "glaring need".

MLJ will be out there unless he has yet another random incident, again, you can't really expect certain positional groups to become injured. They brought in Denarius Moore and drafted Alford, I think that covers the speedster aspect. The team has control of A.J. for another year, no worries there. How did I "fail to realize" that their contracts are up when I specifically mentioned it in my post? Like I said, WRs come out of the draft more NFL ready and talented more so than ever before. You can expect a first year WR to come in and produce, you can't really do that with the linemen that can greatly benefit from the development.

You claim they have all of this solid depth, but not at WR. Really?

Is T.J. Johnson a better C than Sanu is WR2? Are we not in terrible shape if another LB goes down early? What happens if Iloka or Nelson get injured?

You can't have All-Pro players backing up every position. Sanu and Moore are better depth than what we have at some other positions. You're just upset that we didn't get the receiver you wanted even though this team is not lacking in players to  catch passes this year. I don't think I would have complained much if the Bengals took a top WR, but it was hardly a "glaring need" to anybody that saw our projected 2015 lineup. Our LB corp is a mess, we desperately needed line depth which we drafted, depth at S is lacking, and they desperately needed help at TE. I'm not even going to get into your scenario of trading back our picks, because neither of us have ANY idea of what could have actually happened in that circumstance. You're just putting the spin on to present it to follow your opinion. You have ZERO clue of what we could have gotten for our pick, if anybody was even interested to begin with, and then which players would have still been available after a trade was completed. Neither of us know that, so it's sort of silly to argue about that part.

a WR would have been a nice addition.
But given the picks we made, I didn't see a glaring reach for anyone who wasn't a WR.
We took good players. We didn't reach for positions. We just took guys we see as good players

(07-30-2015, 12:22 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: a WR would have been a nice addition.
But given the picks we made, I didn't see a glaring reach for anyone who wasn't a WR.
We took good players. We didn't reach for positions. We just took guys we see as good players

Yeah, I wouldn't have complained about taking another WR, but our picks made plenty of sense whether these guys end up working out or not.

Pre-draft, our starters or depth was as weak or even worse than WR at LB, S, OT, and TE. We took those positions with 7 of our 9 picks, and took a speedy receiver at the end of the draft. This years draft wasn't flashy, but it was absolutely solid from top to bottom looking back now.

Personally, I wanted the team to go after a vet WR early in free agency and/or go for a TE there instead of double dipping in the draft.

(07-30-2015, 12:28 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Yeah, I wouldn't have complained about taking another WR, but our picks made plenty of sense whether these guys end up working out or not.

Pre-draft, our starters or depth was as weak or even worse than WR at LB, S, OT, and TE. We took those positions with 7 of our 9 picks, and took a speedy receiver at the end of the draft. This years draft wasn't flashy, but it was absolutely solid from top to bottom looking back now.

Personally, I wanted the team to go after a vet WR early in free agency and/or go for a TE there instead of double dipping in the draft.

I could do without the Ogbuehi pick especially knowing you got Fisher at 53...who's a similar player to Ogbuehi but better. 

The key with Fisher is, he isn't limited to OT. He should be able to play G. And I believe they looked into giving him snaps at all 5 spots.

I don't think either guy is a great LT prospect to be honest. Both played better at RT in college. 

(07-30-2015, 12:32 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I could do without the Ogbuehi pick especially knowing you got Fisher at 53...who's a similar player to Ogbuehi but better. 

The key with Fisher is, he isn't limited to OT. He should be able to play G. And I believe they looked into giving him snaps at all 5 spots.

I don't think either guy is a great LT prospect to be honest. Both played better at RT in college. 

I saw a handful of people projecting Fisher as LT of the future, but I'd rather see him everywhere BUT LT to be perfectly honest, from what I've seen of him. He seems like a great all around player, and he was one of the linemen that I was hoping for this past year.

I'll say that I didn't know much at all about Ogbuehi on draft day, but it said a lot to me that they took him so highly with a torn ACL. This team has been no joke when it comes to drafting as of late, so I can only assume it was a good pickup.

I haven't been a hardcore follower of college ball for a year or two so I don't quite get into the mock drafting and stuff as heavily as many others do, but I do know what the Bengals needs were and it looks like we hit all of the big ones in the draft. I don't know enough about a lot of the players to have a super cereal opinion of them, but I like the positions we took and I really liked the Fisher pick specifically.

(07-30-2015, 12:41 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I saw a handful of people projecting Fisher as LT of the future, but I'd rather see him everywhere BUT LT to be perfectly honest, from what I've seen of him. He seems like a great all around player, and he was one of the linemen that I was hoping for this past year.

I'll say that I didn't know much at all about Ogbuehi on draft day, but it said a lot to me that they took him so highly with a torn ACL. This team has been no joke when it comes to drafting as of late, so I can only assume it was a good pickup.

I haven't been a hardcore follower of college ball for a year or two so I don't quite get into the mock drafting and stuff as heavily as many others do, but I do know what the Bengals needs were and it looks like we hit all of the big ones in the draft. I don't know enough about a lot of the players to have a super cereal opinion of them, but I like the positions we took and I really liked the Fisher pick specifically.

He got a lot of hype because people were jerking off over the idea TAMU linemen...despite the fact they've all sucked in the NFL so far. He's got the size and athleticism but is lacking just about everywhere else. He seemed really uncomfortable at LT. He's a RT where he was decent. But his LT senior game film is not good. 

(07-30-2015, 10:55 AM)djs7685 Wrote: I highly doubt that I'm the only person that didn't see WR as a "glaring need".

MLJ will be out there unless he has yet another random incident, again, you can't really expect certain positional groups to become injured. They brought in Denarius Moore and drafted Alford, I think that covers the speedster aspect. The team has control of A.J. for another year, no worries there. How did I "fail to realize" that their contracts are up when I specifically mentioned it in my post? Like I said, WRs come out of the draft more NFL ready and talented more so than ever before. You can expect a first year WR to come in and produce, you can't really do that with the linemen that can greatly benefit from the development.

You claim they have all of this solid depth, but not at WR. Really?

Is T.J. Johnson a better C than Sanu is WR2? Are we not in terrible shape if another LB goes down early? What happens if Iloka or Nelson get injured?

You can't have All-Pro players backing up every position. Sanu and Moore are better depth than what we have at some other positions. You're just upset that we didn't get the receiver you wanted even though this team is not lacking in players to  catch passes this year. I don't think I would have complained much if the Bengals took a top WR, but it was hardly a "glaring need" to anybody that saw our projected 2015 lineup. Our LB corp is a mess, we desperately needed line depth which we drafted, depth at S is lacking, and they desperately needed help at TE. I'm not even going to get into your scenario of trading back our picks, because neither of us have ANY idea of what could have actually happened in that circumstance. You're just putting the spin on to present it to follow your opinion. You have ZERO clue of what we could have gotten for our pick, if anybody was even interested to begin with, and then which players would have still been available after a trade was completed. Neither of us know that, so it's sort of silly to argue about that part.

Wow...so much ignorance in this post.  Where do I start? 


I guess what you failed to realize was that WR is a position that has FA hitting all three of the top performers at the same time.  You eluded to the OTs selected as "helping them prepare for next year".  Why not do the same for WR?  As far as your statement about more WRs come in NFL ready than OTs, I think this is pure speculation.  It used to be a common occurrence to get limited production our of rookie WRs, but then the likes of Odell Beckham Jr and others come along and suddenly college WRs are "NFL ready"?  Hardly.

I understand, as stated previously, that you cant have Pro Bowl talent backing up every position.  However the WR position showed to have very little talent behind Sanu, MLJ, and AJ last season.  I don't think it is unreasonable to think that a high draft pick be utilized on such a key position. 

It isn't at all because the Bengals didn't draft the player I wanted.  Let me be very clear about this:  I want the Bengals to win a Super Bowl.  The thing I saw as a glaring weakness on the offensive side of the ball last year was the lack of separation from the WRs.  On defense, it was a lack of a pass rush.  I thought a second year of Geno recovering, the return of Pat Sims and MJ, and the development of Margus Hunt and Will Clarke would take care of the defensive side.  On the offensive side, I did not see Denarious Moore as much of a signing at all.  The guy hasn't performed well at all over the past few seasons.  I thought a draft pick was in order. 

As far as what the Bengals could have received for pick #21 and who would have still been available, I understand it isn't fair to redo the draft in your head knowing when all the other players were selected.  However, Denver offered Detroit quite a bit to move up to #23.  There were reports that teams came to the Bengals with offers, but the Bengals had their sights set on their man.  I can respect that, but a guy that won't likely contribute at all in 2015 AND a second round selection of another OT just seemed foolish given the WR talent that was available.  I hope MLJ is 100% all season.  I hope Moore proves me wrong and is as big a FA steal as Deltha O'Neal.  That being said, I would have much rather taken one of the young players in this past draft to push AJ and improve the overall WR corps.

Is there really a need for the "omg wow so much ignorance" to start the post?

What did I say that was "ignorance"?? We have differing opinions, and we WERE having a decent discussion. No need to be a douche if you want more serious replies.

(07-30-2015, 04:12 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I did not see Denarious Moore as much of a signing at all.  The guy hasn't performed well at all over the past few seasons. 

2012 & 2013...97 rec...1436 yds...14.8 avg...12 tds



The only WRs in the league to have more receptions, more tds, and a higher average per catch over those two seasons were....

Calvin Johnson
Demaryius Thomas
Vincent Jackson
Josh Gordon
Jordy Nelson

That's a pretty short list

(07-30-2015, 04:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 2012 & 2013...97 rec...1436 yds...14.8 avg...12 tds



The only WRs in the league to have more receptions, more tds, and a higher average per catch over those two seasons were....

Calvin Johnson
Demaryius Thomas
Vincent Jackson
Josh Gordon
Jordy Nelson

That's a pretty short list

In his last two seasons he played 26 games and had 58 receptions.  Slightly over 2 receptions per game.  He did have 5 touchdowns in those 23 games.  I am concerned with the direction his stats are pointing. 

(07-28-2015, 05:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: In NFL news: PUP now stands for Porter Unable to Perform. It has also been rumored that Porter has been working out with former Bengal LB Keith Rivers to try to get ready for the upcoming season

haha i still remembers our arguments with truck about how good Keith Rivers wasnt and the crazy man crush he had for him.

(07-30-2015, 09:56 PM)CincyProduct Wrote: haha i still remembers our arguments with truck about how good Keith Rivers wasnt and the crazy man crush he had for him.

Truck loved some strange players. I am pretty sure he thought Ryan Whalen was better than AJ Green.