(07-30-2015, 02:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That's not true at all. Both the past and the future affect what you're doing in the present. The past influences what you do now because hopefully you learn from your mistakes and don't repeat them. Planning for the future influences what you're doing in the present.

I will show you . . .

How can the future, which none of us even know, "affect" us in the present or past?  

(07-30-2015, 02:38 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: How can the future, which none of us even know, "affect" us in the present or past?  

The Bengals have rolled over salary cap money every year to be used in the future since the new CBA.  The future is dictating how they use part of their salary cap today.

(07-30-2015, 02:24 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You're present defense of the coaching staff is based upon?  The past.

You currently want to keep the coaches for?  The future.

Two examples of the past and future changing what you're doing in the present.

Total fail in logic.

The future has not happened yet, so it can not effect the present.

(07-30-2015, 03:29 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The Bengals have rolled over salary cap money every year to be used in the future since the new CBA.  The future is dictating how they use part of their salary cap today.

You are confusing "planning for the future" with something that has not happened yet effecting how you feel right now.

When we win a big regular season game you can't say "I am not happy now because of something that has not happened yet."  Playoff losses do not go back into the past and take away the pleasure of a regular season win.

And even though some people claim that if we win a Super Bowl it will make them happy when we lose after that i don't think it would help me.  If we lose a game I don't say "I am happy because of a game we won last year".

(07-30-2015, 04:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are confusing "planning for the future" with something that has not happened yet effecting how you feel right now.

When we win a big regular season game you can't say "I am not happy now because of something that has not happened yet."  Playoff losses do not go back into the past and take away the pleasure of a regular season win.

And even though some people claim that if we win a Super Bowl it will make them happy when we lose after that i don't think it would help me.  If we lose a game I don't say "I am happy because of a game we won last year".

He even used the word "currently" in his strained logic.  Things that are going on "currently" deal with the present. 

Any support one might have of Marvin can only be due to actions that have occurred in the past.  Since the future hasn't occurred yet, it can't be the impetus for any action (support) that has already occurred.  

This shouldn't really even have to be explained.  

(07-30-2015, 04:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are confusing "planning for the future" with something that has not happened yet effecting how you feel right now.

When we win a big regular season game you can't say "I am not happy now because of something that has not happened yet."  Playoff losses do not go back into the past and take away the pleasure of a regular season win.

And even though some people claim that if we win a Super Bowl it will make them happy when we lose after that i don't think it would help me.  If we lose a game I don't say "I am happy because of a game we won last year".

And you are changing your argument mid stream.

You wrote . . .

(07-30-2015, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But neither the future nor the past changes what happens in the present.

Now you're changing "what happens" to emotional feelings.  "Planning for the future" is the future affecting your decisions in the present. 

"What happens" in the past and the future can affect emotions, also.  I still get upset thinking about my brother being killed in a head on collision in 2012.  Last year I had to recertify my boards and I was very anxious about passing while studying in April for a test I was scheduled to take in December. 

But, now I'm sorry I even brought this crap up.  (Ooh, I guess the past is affecting how I feel in the present.  Strange.)

(07-30-2015, 05:03 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And you are changing your argument mid stream.

You wrote . . .


Now you're changing "what happens" to emotional feelings.  "Planning for the future" is the future affecting your decisions in the present. 

"What happens" in the past and the future can affect emotions, also.  I still get upset thinking about my brother being killed in a head on collision in 2012.  Last year I had to recertify my boards and I was very anxious about passing while studying in April for a test I was scheduled to take in December. 

But, now I'm sorry I even brought this crap up.  (Ooh, I guess the past is affecting how I feel in the present.  Strange.)

Planning for the future is the action that is caused by your present knowledge of knowing that if you don't you will more than likely be screwed.  

The future doesn't exist yet, therefore it can't be the cause of any action you take today.  Once new information is known, you can then adjust your actions accordingly.  

(07-30-2015, 05:56 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Planning for the future is the action that is caused by your present knowledge of knowing that if you don't you will more than likely be screwed.  

The future doesn't exist yet, therefore it can't be the cause of any action you take today.  Once new information is known, you can then adjust your actions accordingly.  

This^

future can dictate the present.

I buy snow tires before December comes.

But then again, using the future to determine the plan of action in the present is highly based on patterns and correlations from the past O_o

(07-30-2015, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And even if we win a Super Bowl that does not make me happy in subsequent years when we lose regular season games.  I don't say "Well the Steelers just beat us but I am happy because we won a Super Bowl a few years ago."

I'm not saying it's the "right" way to do things, but as someone who has watched football games at Heinz Field I can tell you as soon as the Steelers go down by 10 or more points they start talking about the 6 Super Bowls they won. It's a cheap shot of a panacea to every short-term discomfort they have, but it works for them.

(07-30-2015, 07:36 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: This^

future can dictate the present.

I buy snow tires before December comes.

But then again, using the future to determine the plan of action in the present is highly based on patterns and correlations from the past O_o

It's really the past.  Your prior experience tells you it will most likely snow come December.  Therefore, you buy tires in anticipation of that.  It very well could be a mild winter and snow tires might not even be necessary.  

(07-30-2015, 04:45 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: He even used the word "currently" in his strained logic.  Things that are going on "currently" deal with the present. 

Any support one might have of Marvin can only be due to actions that have occurred in the past.  Since the future hasn't occurred yet, it can't be the impetus for any action (support) that has already occurred.  

This shouldn't really even have to be explained.  

I used "currently" intentionally to indicate a decision made in the present based upon the future. Even though I am "currently" making a decision based upon the future in the present, it doesn't lessen the impact of the future upon my decision making.

Fred suffers from paralysis by analysis. He doesn't support any coaching changes because things might get worse . . . in the future. That is true. Hell, damn near every situation might get worse. Things could also improve. If what you have been doing for years hasn't helped you attain your goal things probably aren't going to get any better all on their own. So in any situation if Fred's plan wasn't working he wouldn't modify the plan because things might get worse even though the current plan clearly isn't working.

(07-30-2015, 05:56 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Planning for the future is the action that is caused by your present knowledge of knowing that if you don't you will more than likely be screwed.  

I'm already planning next summer's family vacation.  Will it be a Disney cruise or Atlantis?  Either way, I'm not screwed.

Quote:The future doesn't exist yet, therefore it can't be the cause of any action you take today.  Once new information is known, you can then adjust your actions accordingly.  

The future does exist. It just hasn't occurred, yet. I'm going to die. It hasn't happened, but it is a certainty it will at some point. I have a will and advance directives because I have planned for the future even though it has yet to occur. What happens after I'm dead doesn't affect me at all. If I don't leave a will I'm certainly not screwed.

(07-30-2015, 04:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Total fail in logic.

Fred, you responded to a post I wrote in the past, yet you claim the past doesn't affect the present.

You may want to reconsider whose logic has failed.

I'm not sayin' I'm just sayin'. You know what I'm sayin'?

(07-31-2015, 06:42 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm already planning next summer's family vacation.  Will it be a Disney cruise or Atlantis?  Either way, I'm not screwed.

The future does exist. It just hasn't occurred, yet. I'm going to die. It hasn't happened, but it is a certainty it will at some point. I have a will and advance directives because I have planned for the future even though it has yet to occur. What happens after I'm dead doesn't affect me at all. If I don't leave a will I'm certainly not screwed.

You're screwed if you don't buy the tickets or reserve your hotel room in advance.  That's why people plan things:  there past experiences of knowing if you don't make those arrangements in advance, most likely they won't work out.  And as you said, you could very easily be dead next year.  Why would someone who is going to be dead plan a vacation?  (Hypothetically speaking of course.)

If the future already exists, then I'm a billionaire, I just haven't made a billion dollars yet.

See how absurd that sounds?  

(07-31-2015, 09:37 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: If the future already exists, then I'm a billionaire, I just haven't made a billion dollars yet.

See how absurd that sounds?  

Actually, that sounds pretty good to me! I'll just tell myself that the next time my mortgage and utility bills come in. Ease the pain a bit.

(07-30-2015, 10:47 AM)PApinhead Wrote: But Hey!!!  At least we are making the playoffs, right?  We may get embarrassed in them, but at least we're making them. 

That's the logic I just don't understand. "Lets be happy they're making it to the playoffs".

As if the playoff mean something when you're getting bounced in convincing fashion every single time.

The point of the playoffs in to win in the playoffs. If you never win, is there a point?

(07-30-2015, 12:32 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

Some people act like the enjoyment that the experienced with regular season wins never happened once we lose a playoff game.  But the fact is that the future can not change the present, and the past can not change the present.

When we win a regular season game I am happy.  I don't say "I don't know if I am happy or not because I have to wait and see what happens in the playoffs".  And even if we win a Super Bowl that does not make me happy in subsequent years when we lose regular season games.  I don't say "Well the Steelers just beat us but I am happy because we won a Super Bowl a few years ago."

Winning is fun and losing is bad.  But neither the future nor the past changes what happens in the present.

Like it or not, this is exactly how a lot of people feel. A Bengals beat reporter even said last year that seasons are becoming tainted by the focus on the playoff losses. Unfortunately, that's the #1 thing our team is known for right now: playoff disappointment. That's undeniable really. I'm glad that you are able to ignore the giant elephant in the room and 100% enjoy the Bengals' wins without thinking about their playoff failures, but this isn't the case for many people.

If you got to drive a Ferrari 4 times and each time it ended with a wreck, would you thoroughly enjoy the 5th drive? Or would all those crashes be in the back of your mind, tainting your enjoyment?

(07-31-2015, 12:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That's the logic I just don't understand. "Lets be happy they're making it to the playoffs".

As if the playoff mean something when you're getting bounced in convincing fashion every single time.

The point of the playoffs in to win in the playoffs. If you never win, is there a point?

Like it or not, this is exactly how a lot of people feel. A Bengals beat reporter even said last year that seasons are becoming tainted by the focus on the playoff losses. Unfortunately, that's the #1 thing our team is known for right now: playoff disappointment. That's undeniable really. I'm glad that you are able to ignore the giant elephant in the room and 100% enjoy the Bengals' wins without thinking about their playoff failures, but this isn't the case for many people.

If you got to drive a Ferrari 4 times and each time it ended with a wreck, would you thoroughly enjoy the 5th drive? Or would all those crashes be in the back of your mind, tainting your enjoyment?

What if you didn't get to drive the Ferrari at all and instead had to settle for wrecking a Ford Focus year in and year out.  
Fact is, I get enjoyment from it because I have "hope" that they will eventually get over the hump.  4 straight playoff appearances lends some credibility to that belief.

If I somehow knew it was impossible for the Bengals to ever win a playoff game, I'd probably either stop watching football, or pick another team to root for.  In the meantime, I will enjoy every step of the way towards that ultimate goal.   

(07-31-2015, 02:17 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: What if you didn't get to drive the Ferrari at all and instead had to settle for wrecking a Ford Focus year in and year out.  
Fact is, I get enjoyment from it because I have "hope" that they will eventually get over the hump.  4 straight playoff appearances lends some credibility to that belief.

If I somehow knew it was impossible for the Bengals to ever win a playoff game, I'd probably either stop watching football, or pick another team to root for.  In the meantime, I will enjoy every step of the way towards that ultimate goal.   

What if you've been driving a Ford Focus all along without realizing it?

(07-31-2015, 02:29 PM)GodFather Wrote: What if you've been driving a Ford Focus all along without realizing it?

It's all relative.  Step up over the beater we were driving around in before.  

I guess I am one of those folks that is just happy every time the Bengals win. I see no benefit to not being.