(04-09-2017, 10:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hey man i respect you Benton but McCarron is not starting here unless Dalton is hurt.

He will only start if he is traded to another team, a QB needy team that sucks.

2nd round picks start here all the time. There is a big list in this very thread. Dalton is a 2nd round pick.


 

 

Boyd started 2 games (granted, he played much more). WJ III didn't do as well.
Fisher 1 (granted, he played more). Oogie, didn't do as well.
Hill, pretty good rookie year. Dennard, played some, don't think he started any.

So, hell, you might be right. As long as it's not a first round player, looks like the guy has a chance to come in and contribute. Seems we do better lately with our seconds than our firsts, at least earlier on.

That said, I still wouldn't trade AJM. I remember living in constant fear of hearing "And coming into the game is Jordan Palmer."

There are some saying the season is over (or the game) if Andy goes down. That's not true if you have a competent backup. People can debate if he's a starter or a scrub or whatever, but we know AJM is a competent backup. As long as he's on the roster, the season isn't over, regardless of what happens to AD. I don't want to spend this season fearing the words "And coming into the game is... who the $#!% is Jeff Driskell?"

(04-10-2017, 12:03 PM)Burma Wrote: That Matt Schaub deal is exactly why the Bengals wont get a haul like that. The last few years have seen several back up QB mega deals backfire spectacularly. The league appears to have soured a bit on that, and rightly so. 

I think the Texans were happy with how the schaub trade worked out


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(04-10-2017, 12:03 PM)Burma Wrote: That Matt Schaub deal is exactly why the Bengals wont get a haul like that. The last few years have seen several back up QB mega deals backfire spectacularly. The league appears to have soured a bit on that, and rightly so. 

The Browns reportedly offered much more than the Schaub deal for Garrapolo, however.  Or, look at the deal Mike Glennon got this year or Osweiler got last year.  It's simple supply and demand.  There are more teams than starting caliber QB's, so they fetch a premium.  Plus, in this case, AJ knows Hue's system and has had success in it.  It's a pretty safe bet that he will be at least a game manager level starter and not a complete bust.  

(04-10-2017, 12:33 PM)Whatever Wrote: The Browns reportedly offered much more than the Schaub deal for Garrapolo, however. 

I still do not believe this.

What is the source?

(04-10-2017, 12:07 PM)Benton Wrote: Boyd started 2 games (granted, he played much more). WJ III didn't do as well.
Fisher 1 (granted, he played more). Oogie, didn't do as well.
Hill, pretty good rookie year. Dennard, played some, don't think he started any.

So, hell, you might be right. As long as it's not a first round player, looks like the guy has a chance to come in and contribute. Seems we do better lately with our seconds than our firsts, at least earlier on.

That said, I still wouldn't trade AJM. I remember living in constant fear of hearing "And coming into the game is Jordan Palmer."

There are some saying the season is over (or the game) if Andy goes down. That's not true if you have a competent backup. People can debate if he's a starter or a scrub or whatever, but we know AJM is a competent backup. As long as he's on the roster, the season isn't over, regardless of what happens to AD. I don't want to spend this season fearing the words "And coming into the game is... who the $#!% is Jeff Driskell?"

I think Nate meant more that it seems typically (at least in the Dalton era) that 2nd round picks are getting (many) more snaps out of the gate compared to their 1st round counterparts.

It seems as if the 1st round is BPA selection for the future whereas the 2nd round is more about immediate help.

That's part of the reason I think 1st round is a pass catcher and 2nd round is a DE. The other part is I believe a pass catcher will simply be BPA over a DE at 9 unless Thomas falls.

(04-10-2017, 01:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I think Nate meant more that it seems typically (at least in the Dalton era) that 2nd round picks are getting (many) more snaps out of the gate compared to their 1st round counterparts.

It seems as if the 1st round is BPA selection for the future whereas the 2nd round is more about immediate help.

That's part of the reason I think 1st round is a pass catcher and 2nd round is a DE. The other part is I believe a pass catcher will simply be BPA over a DE at 9 unless Thomas falls.

That was part of the reason I said earlier this offseason that I thought we would go pass catcher at 9 (as I think the team ranks offensive players much higher than defensive players). The other part was I feel like when the team has a bad run, the Powers That Be feel like you just need to plug in someone on offense to make it better.

I've backed off on that some with letting Peko and Mauluga go.

Some people have mentioned playoff success and/or Super Bowl. I truly believe this team has a lot of holes to plug right now, and are not having either with or without Dalton. I also believe McCarron can be a starter in this league. McCarron for the Browns' second round pick would be good for everyone involved. The Bengals get a very high second round pick in an extremely deep defensive draft, which really opens up what they can do with their own first round pick. The Browns have a plethora of picks and would get an NFL ready quarterback who has experience. McCarron goes to a team with a good coach, someone he knows, and an organization that is on the rise. It would be a win for everyone involved.

(04-10-2017, 01:21 PM)Benton Wrote: That was part of the reason I said earlier this offseason that I thought we would go pass catcher at 9 (as I think the team ranks offensive players much higher than defensive players). The other part was I feel like when the team has a bad run, the Powers That Be feel like you just need to plug in someone on offense to make it better.

I've backed off on that some with letting Peko and Mauluga go.

Meh. Those two don't seem like big losses. Minter was brought in to replace/upgrade Maualuga. Peko's replacement was already in house in Billings. I'm not worried of a drop off after Peko and Maualuga left.

(04-10-2017, 01:49 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Meh. Those two don't seem like big losses. Minter was brought in to replace/upgrade Maualuga. Peko's replacement was already in house in Billings. I'm not worried of a drop off after Peko and Maualuga left.

I think he was more inferring that the Bengals have blamed most of their problems on offense and let the defense get off scot-free, but that his opinion has changed with the recent releases. 

What trading McCarron for picks boils down to is IF management thinks the roster as constructed could make a deep playoff run. Part of that will be what we add in the draft.

If you think we can...you don't trade him.

If you don't, then you roll the dice...but you have to get a backup QB somehow too.

(04-10-2017, 01:54 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What trading McCarron for picks boils down to is IF management thinks the roster as constructed could make a deep playoff run. Part of that will be what we add in the draft.

If you think we can...you don't trade him.

If you don't, then you roll the dice...but you have to get a backup QB somehow too.

Agreed.  I don't see how they think this team is ready for a playoff run, but do agree with your thinking.

(04-10-2017, 12:04 AM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Ahhh, the biggest AJ McCarron homer of them all...

Are you his brother Seph?

Seriously, the Defense had nothing to do with McCarron having a chance?

Andy stinking up the joint? Dude was right there with Brady and Palmer in the MVP discussion...

I know it is a moot point but i have no doubt we would of won that Playoff game with Dalton at the helm.

Just sucks ass he got injured trying to tackle that Defensive Lineman IN THE FIRST FRICKING QUARTER!!!.........

After he just drove the Offense right down the field into the Red Zone...

Good Lord.

1.  No relation.

2.  The defense played great for 3.5 quarters.  I'm not here to take anything away from the defense in that game.

3.  Of course you have no doubt that Andy would have won that game, because you're just as much of an Andy homer as I am an AJM homer.  Andy's playoff history would suggest that he would have choked badly.

4.  He drove the offense right down the field into the red zone after getting a lucky 15-yard penalty and Hill getting 12 rushing yards (this is how AJM bashers talk about AJM's performances)

(04-10-2017, 12:28 AM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Are you AJM? This post was written by AJM, had to be. I don't know who else would write something so blatantly bias towards someone.

I absolutely love Dalton, and like AJM. That being said, anyone with any sort of know how or intelligence towards the game can see the complete difference between the two QBs. Is that maybe experience, talent, athleticism? I don't really know, but the difference is Dalton is simply a better Quarterback.

AJM has happy feet in the pocket, holds the ball a bit too long, and doesn't have a strong arm between throws (Dalton gets bashed for that, but AJM's is weaker). He also struggles with reads.



Watch the tape. Stop comparing statistics.

I would guarantee that I've watched more tape of AJM's NFL games than everyone else on this forum combined.

So don't tell me to "watch the tape" when I've gone through every single play of AJM's NFL career multiple times with other posters on this forum, and pointed out why everything you say is simply not true.

I would say that anyone with any intelligence or understanding of NFL football realizes that AJM is going to be a very good NFL QB, and given the performances of Andy vs AJ thus far in their careers, AJM has the higher ceiling.

He lacks Andy's experience in dealing with NFL defenses, and his arm is slightly worse on deep routes than Andy's.  He also lacks Andy's perpetual ability to choke in big moments.

You can't teach intangibles.

AJM will go somewhere else one day and every one of you who's been bashing him will be eating crow.  He will be a winning NFL QB.  Maybe Alex Smith level, a guy who can win games with a competent defense and offensive-minded coach.  Maybe Tom Brady level, as AJM's first year rate stats look exactly like Tom Brady's.  Nobody knows.

But there is a ceiling for AJM that Andy Dalton doesn't have, and will never have.

(04-10-2017, 09:01 AM)rezolve11 Wrote: What are you even talking about? Here are his redzone stats.
2016 - 13 TD / 0 INT
2015 - 19 TD / 3 INT
2014 - 12 TD / 0 INT
2013 - 21 TD / 3 INT
2012 - 20 TD / 0 INT
2011 - 14 TD / 0 INT

Guy is averaging one interception in the redzone a year.
Granted he also has 33 fumbles in 6 years(including recovered by his own team), but how many were in the redzone?

Oh you mean you have a problem with irrational and absurd criticisms of Andy not based in reality?

That's what happens to AJM every day on this forum.

Was a tongue-in-cheek post, but a serious theme - people make endless excuses for Andy but criticize the smallest little thing about AJM - including things that never happened or aren't even real (like his inability to beat zone defense despite numerous video examples of him beating cover3, cover4 and cover2).

(04-10-2017, 10:58 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I think it is an alt for someone else here.

No one else would lurk around all the time and only post when McCarron's name shows up.

Reminds me a lot of Mulligan.  Remember him?

Break out your tinfoil hat, Fred.

(04-10-2017, 03:12 PM)BigSeph Wrote: Oh you mean you have a problem with irrational and absurd criticisms of Andy not based in reality?

That's what happens to AJM every day on this forum.

Was a tongue-in-cheek post, but a serious theme - people make endless excuses for Andy but criticize the smallest little thing about AJM - including things that never happened or aren't even real (like his inability to beat zone defense despite numerous video examples of him beating cover3, cover4 and cover2).

Of course I have a problem with biased claims that have no ground to them. I haven't done that to AJM at all. 

(04-10-2017, 03:23 PM)rezolve11 Wrote: Of course I have a problem with biased claims that have no ground to them. I haven't done that to AJM at all. 

Several people in this forum have, some on this very thread.

(04-10-2017, 03:05 PM)BigSeph Wrote: I would guarantee that I've watched more tape of AJM's NFL games than everyone else on this forum combined.

So don't tell me to "watch the tape" when I've gone through every single play of AJM's NFL career multiple times with other posters on this forum, and pointed out why everything you say is simply not true.

I would say that anyone with any intelligence or understanding of NFL football realizes that AJM is going to be a very good NFL QB, and given the performances of Andy vs AJ thus far in their careers, AJM has the higher ceiling.

He lacks Andy's experience in dealing with NFL defenses, and his arm is slightly worse on deep routes than Andy's.  He also lacks Andy's perpetual ability to choke in big moments.

You can't teach intangibles.

AJM will go somewhere else one day and every one of you who's been bashing him will be eating crow.  He will be a winning NFL QB.  Maybe Alex Smith level, a guy who can win games with a competent defense and offensive-minded coach.  Maybe Tom Brady level, as AJM's first year rate stats look exactly like Tom Brady's.  Nobody knows.

But there is a ceiling for AJM that Andy Dalton doesn't have, and will never have.

You very likely could be right. Unfortunately, this team can't play both Dalton and McCarron. One has to go if both are to be starters. And the Bengals will go with what they know, and that's Dalton.

The only ways for McCarron to ever become a starting QB and keep the job are either Dalton to get hurt early in the season and McCarron takes over (a la Dak Prescott) or McCarron goes to another team.

I don't think McCarron is going anywhere. When is the last time we traded a player that we didn't plan to cut or who didn't quit on us? This FO just isn't that savvy.

(04-10-2017, 03:05 PM)BigSeph Wrote: I would guarantee that I've watched more tape of AJM's NFL games than everyone else on this forum combined.

So don't tell me to "watch the tape" when I've gone through every single play of AJM's NFL career multiple times with other posters on this forum, and pointed out why everything you say is simply not true.

I would say that anyone with any intelligence or understanding of NFL football realizes that AJM is going to be a very good NFL QB, and given the performances of Andy vs AJ thus far in their careers, AJM has the higher ceiling.

He lacks Andy's experience in dealing with NFL defenses, and his arm is slightly worse on deep routes than Andy's.  He also lacks Andy's perpetual ability to choke in big moments.

You can't teach intangibles.

AJM will go somewhere else one day and every one of you who's been bashing him will be eating crow.  He will be a winning NFL QB.  Maybe Alex Smith level, a guy who can win games with a competent defense and offensive-minded coach.  Maybe Tom Brady level, as AJM's first year rate stats look exactly like Tom Brady's.  Nobody knows.

But there is a ceiling for AJM that Andy Dalton doesn't have, and will never have.

You're making a whole lot of assumptions which may or not be supported by evidence.  IMO, the most accurate statement you can make about him is that he did a pretty good job, considering. 

He did not set the world on fire.  Predicting he'll be good is not different that predicting he won't.  Bth are just guesses and there is evidence both ways.  And the evidence, btw, is limited at best.

He does have intangibles.  He has a lot of heart and a lot of confidence.  Being a scrapper might be his biggest asset.  His intangibles might outweigh his tangibles, though.  At this point, it's all just speculation.  There will be a lot of factors that will play into the ultimate outcome and those factors are not even established yet.