Just want to get on record that I think Davis will be the first pick.

The kid has top 5 WR potential.

He and AJ together would be scary if Dalton gets 3 seconds to throw.

If he works out, they won't sign AJ to another contract.

They are going to take a DE in second if the Ohio University kid is there and a tight end in the third. Eifert is not getting re-signed.

I feel pretty certain this is going to happen.

Can Davis help right away is my only question. He's hurt, so he'll miss most of OTA's etc. He doesn't come from a big conference so he'll take longer to adjust. Seems like they are hoping the number 9 pick can step right in. Can Davis?

(04-11-2017, 11:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: Can Davis help right away is my only question. He's hurt, so he'll miss most of OTA's etc. He doesn't come from a big conference so he'll take longer to adjust. Seems like they are hoping the number 9 pick can step right in. Can Davis?

Agree with this and agree with OP that the kid has potential. 

Not sure they will gamble at #9 though.

Williams will go before davis, just dont know where. Also williams is a day 1 starter davis is not.

I hope he gets healthy and can run before the draft. If he does I wont be mad if we take him at 9.

I am scared of injured players though.

Shariff Floyd had a minor procedure last year. After getting hurt week one he had a clean up. Was supposed to miss 5-6 weeks and return mid season. Turns out his career is in jeopardy.

I doubt there is any procedure with a 100% success rate. So until I see the full recovery I am weary of spending the big bucks. I want to make sure I'm not buying damaged goods that have a no return policy.

(04-12-2017, 02:04 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Williams will go before davis, just dont know where. Also williams is a day 1 starter davis is not.

Williams is not a better WR than Williams so I dont get where you think Williams is a day 1 starter and Davis is not.  This small school BS that people talk about all the time is just exactly that BS. Especially considering Davis that when he played top competition he still put up the numbers....so that doesn't apply to everyone.

(04-12-2017, 02:04 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Williams will go before davis, just dont know where. Also williams is a day 1 starter davis is not.

It will be interesting to see who goes first.

Some people love Williams. Others think he's a glorified jump ball catcher.

(04-12-2017, 08:13 AM)pulses Wrote: Especially considering Davis that when he played top competition he still put up the numbers....so that doesn't apply to everyone.

What CB did Davis play against this year who will be playing on Sundays, or be drafted for that matter? I'll give you a hint, the answer is none. Watch the tape, a lot of Davis's biggest plays came out of the slot, so not only was the overall competition weaker he was schooling the 3rd best CB on weak teams. I'm not saying he can't be good, but you have to look at his production with a grain of salt.

(04-12-2017, 09:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: What CB did Davis play against this year who will be playing on Sundays, or be drafted for that matter? I'll give you a hint, the answer is none.  Watch the tape, a lot of Davis's biggest plays came out of the slot, so not only was the overall competition weaker he was schooling the 3rd best CB on weak teams. I'm not saying he can't be good, but you have to look at his production with a grain of salt.

Sojourn Shelton will probably be drafted this year....and how do you know that any other CB's he played against this year might be underclassmen and be drafted later on...so your point their is kinda hogwash.

(04-12-2017, 09:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: What CB did Davis play against this year who will be playing on Sundays, or be drafted for that matter? I'll give you a hint, the answer is none.  Watch the tape, a lot of Davis's biggest plays came out of the slot, so not only was the overall competition weaker he was schooling the 3rd best CB on weak teams. I'm not saying he can't be good, but you have to look at his production with a grain of salt.

That isn't really fair to say. A great example of why that isn't fair to say is Khalil Mack coming out of Buffalo.
Buffalo plays in the same conference as Western Michigan, so he's going up against the same level of OL as Davis is against DBs.
Mack ended up going 5th overall to OAK and has been a monster ever since.

You might say that Davis never played against anyone good whereas Mack showed his ability against "Power 6" schools. And yes, Mack did put good stats against "Power 6" conferences when playing against them (5.5 sacks and 12 TFL in eight games). But Davis has been no slouch either.

Some notable games for Davis against Power 5 schools:
2013 - 96 yds, 1 TD vs Michigan St; 112 yds, 1 TD vs 17th ranked Northwestern
2015 - 154 yds, 1 TD vs 5th ranked Michigan St
2016 - 70 yds vs Northwestern; 97 yds vs Illinois

Sure, there were a few games against Big 10 teams that were not good too (2013 Iowa, 2014 Purdue, 2015 Ohio St), but that can't be blamed fully on the WR as it's up to the QB to throw him the ball. He might have not gotten much separation in these games, or it could be that Western Michigan tried to get others the ball and/or got behind enough that they took Davis out and let backups play.

It should be noted too that if people are going to criticize Davis for not playing much against top competition or not producing well (enough) against Power 5 teams, Mike Williams did terrible against top draft DB prospects too (at least in 2016 that I have a link to).
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-prospect-matchups-how-clemson-wr-mike-williams-fared-against-top-db-prospects/

Going to amend my statement to predict Davis or John Ross.

I think they want a WR who can go up top on any play and open things up for AJ and Eifert or whoever we have playing TE.

And if Davis or Ross work out, they won't re-sign AJ to a mega contract - not sure how many years left on AJ's current contract but many WRs start to decline when they hit their 30s.

I do not think they will take Williams over the other two WRs because he does not bring the same speed to the table. 

Lap stated recently that Bengals were looking at WRs and he is almost always correct in his draft predictions.

I also think McCarron is getting traded for a second round pick.  RB and edge rusher in second round and a tight end in third or fourth round.

The TE from Michigan is flying under the radar screen a bit but I think that kid knows how to get open and will be a heck of a pro.

He won't be the first receiver taken or our first pick.

(04-12-2017, 10:26 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That isn't really fair to say. A great example of why that isn't fair to say is Khalil Mack coming out of Buffalo.
Buffalo plays in the same conference as Western Michigan, so he's going up against the same level of OL as Davis is against DBs.
Mack ended up going 5th overall to OAK and has been a monster ever since.

You might say that Davis never played against anyone good whereas Mack showed his ability against "Power 6" schools. And yes, Mack did put good stats against "Power 6" conferences when playing against them (5.5 sacks and 12 TFL in eight games). But Davis has been no slouch either.

Some notable games for Davis against Power 5 schools:
2013 - 96 yds, 1 TD vs Michigan St; 112 yds, 1 TD vs 17th ranked Northwestern
2015 - 154 yds, 1 TD vs 5th ranked Michigan St
2016 - 70 yds vs Northwestern; 97 yds vs Illinois

Sure, there were a few games against Big 10 teams that were not good too (2013 Iowa, 2014 Purdue, 2015 Ohio St), but that can't be blamed fully on the WR as it's up to the QB to throw him the ball. He might have not gotten much separation in these games, or it could be that Western Michigan tried to get others the ball and/or got behind enough that they took Davis out and let backups play.

It should be noted too that if people are going to criticize Davis for not playing much against top competition or not producing well (enough) against Power 5 teams, Mike Williams did terrible against top draft DB prospects too (at least in 2016 that I have a link to).
https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-prospect-matchups-how-clemson-wr-mike-williams-fared-against-top-db-prospects/

Khalil Mack vs OSU was all the tape you needed to see of Mack to know he'd be a star. He beat down Mewhort who was a 2nd rounder that year. Mack was dominant against guys who played in the NFL, obviously some were early in their college career but he was a disruptive force. I am not saying small school guys can't succeed I am saying he hasn't played anyone, and often times is lined up in the slot.

As for you "Williams was terrible against those being drafted", disagree completely. First off that is agaisnt guys projected to go in the 1st, not draftable guys as a whole. Second, Against Alabama he had Humphries beat for what should have been a 25 yard TD but Watson air mailed it over his head he was wide open. Also they assigned his TD to a different CB in the championship game, but there should have been a switch on the play because of the stack but they didn't switch and it was wide open, that should have been on Humphries.

I think people confuse my reservations about Davis as "hate". Davis may end up being a good WR, but you seriously have to question the way he got his production. Guys playing 7 yards cushion on him all game, being lined up in the slot against low level schools, things that should make anyone who actually looks at tape pause for a second. I'd take him in the 2nd in a heartbeat, I simply don't think he is the level of WR you tie your top pick to.

(04-12-2017, 09:58 AM)pulses Wrote: Sojourn Shelton will probably be drafted this year....and how do you know that any other CB's he played against this year might be underclassmen and be drafted later on...so your point their is kinda hogwash.

Shelton is a 7th rounder at best. As for they may get drafted later on......go back to last year and find me guys that got drafted last year he played against. Only one is OSU, Davis went 6 for 42 against a defense that was full of NFL talent.

I'm simply saying he is unproven. If your pointing to his gaudy numbers and big plays then it is fair to compare he got those versus other guys in the class.

(04-12-2017, 10:45 AM)Au165 Wrote: Khalil Mack vs OSU was all the tape you needed to see of Mack to know he'd be a star. He beat down Mewhort who was a 2nd rounder that year. Mack was dominant against guys who played in the NFL, obviously some were early in their college career but he was a disruptive force. I am not saying small school guys can't succeed I am saying he hasn't played anyone, and often times is lined up in the slot.

As for you "Williams was terrible against those being drafted", disagree completely. First off that is agaisnt guys projected to go in the 1st, not draftable guys as a whole. Second, Against Alabama he had Humphries beat for what should have been a 25 yard TD but Watson air mailed it over his head he was wide open. Also they assigned his TD to a different CB in the championship game, but there should have been a switch on the play because of the stack but they didn't switch and it was wide open, that should have been on Humphries.

I think people confuse my reservations about Davis as "hate". Davis may end up being a good WR, but you seriously have to question the way he got his production. Guys playing 7 yards cushion on him all game, being lined up in the slot against low level schools, things that should make anyone who actually looks at tape pause for a second. I'd take him in the 2nd in a heartbeat, I simply don't think he is the level of WR you tie your top pick to.

You mention that Williams had some of these players beat, and that's fair, but why can't the same be said for Davis putting up some poor numbers against some better schools? Why is it that a player from a lesser school should have produced more against better competition and the fault is on him whereas a WR like Williams gets a pass against top competition because it's the QB's fault? Plus, Davis playing in a weaker conference means a majority of his teammates are also inferior to those bigger schools. So it's harder to get production when so much of your team is struggling. Williams plays at a top program with top talent all around him. That needs to be factored in too.

Regardless, I'd rather have John Ross over both Williams and Davis anyway.

(04-12-2017, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You mention that Williams had some of these players beat, and that's fair, but why can't the same be said for Davis putting up some poor numbers against some better schools? Why is it that a player from a lesser school should have produced more against better competition and the fault is on him whereas a WR like Williams gets a pass against top competition because it's the QB's fault? Plus, Davis playing in a weaker conference means a majority of his teammates are also inferior to those bigger schools. So it's harder to get production when so much of your team is struggling. Williams plays at a top program with top talent all around him. That needs to be factored in too.

Regardless, I'd rather have John Ross over both Williams and Davis anyway.

Because the schools didn't have NFL talent either way, that is my point. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt at times but there weren't NFL guys on the field for him to get that. His QB play did lack at times, which is why I think his deep ball skill are under rated, he often had to work back to the ball. I look at the tape though and see a guy who saw little press man (saw more than Ross), and had big cushions and played in the slot a lot.

Every prospect has flaws, I am just not sure why people get so bent out of shape over this one. Lack of competition is an accepted "flaw" in the evaluation process.

I have the WR's - Williams, Davis, Ross but honestly the situation they go in to is going to be more important than the player to an extent. None of them are guys you build the offense around like Green or Jones they are guys who have to fit a roll in an offense.

(04-12-2017, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You mention that Williams had some of these players beat, and that's fair, but why can't the same be said for Davis putting up some poor numbers against some better schools? Why is it that a player from a lesser school should have produced more against better competition and the fault is on him whereas a WR like Williams gets a pass against top competition because it's the QB's fault? Plus, Davis playing in a weaker conference means a majority of his teammates are also inferior to those bigger schools. So it's harder to get production when so much of your team is struggling. Williams plays at a top program with top talent all around him. That needs to be factored in too.

Regardless, I'd rather have John Ross over both Williams and Davis anyway.

They may very well take Ross

(04-12-2017, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You mention that Williams had some of these players beat, and that's fair, but why can't the same be said for Davis putting up some poor numbers against some better schools? Why is it that a player from a lesser school should have produced more against better competition and the fault is on him whereas a WR like Williams gets a pass against top competition because it's the QB's fault? Plus, Davis playing in a weaker conference means a majority of his teammates are also inferior to those bigger schools. So it's harder to get production when so much of your team is struggling. Williams plays at a top program with top talent all around him. That needs to be factored in too.

Regardless, I'd rather have John Ross over both Williams and Davis anyway.

For me, there's multiple concerns with Davis.  WR has a steep learning curve, and his will be even steeper coming from a weak conference.  Also, throw in the fact that he's going to be trying to make that transition while recovering from injury.  On top of that, a large part of his allure is that he is supposed to have a great combo of size, speed, and agility, and nobody has a 40 time on the guy.  Lots of small school prospects look faster than they really are on film due to the comparatively worse athletes around them.  

I think we need to get an immediate impact guy at 9, but signs seem to point to Davis needng a year or so to get up to speed.

(04-12-2017, 12:45 PM)Whatever Wrote: For me, there's multiple concerns with Davis.  WR has a steep learning curve, and his will be even steeper coming from a weak conference.  Also, throw in the fact that he's going to be trying to make that transition while recovering from injury.  On top of that, a large part of his allure is that he is supposed to have a great combo of size, speed, and agility, and nobody has a 40 time on the guy.  Lots of small school prospects look faster than they really are on film due to the comparatively worse athletes around them.  

I think we need to get an immediate impact guy at 9, but signs seem to point to Davis needng a year or so to get up to speed.

Does it really, though? Plenty of WRs make an impact as rookies. WR might be one of the positions most often where rookies have an impact right out of the gate.

(04-12-2017, 12:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Does it really, though? Plenty of WRs make an impact as rookies. WR might be one of the positions most often where rookies have an impact right out of the gate.

Yea, this. WR's can get on the field early, a lot of the issue is QBs trusting WR's and their willingness to throw to them. If they can build trust early they can be productive, see Thomas in NO this year.