(04-15-2017, 08:31 PM)BigSeph Wrote:

Yeah, excellent rebuttal to the rate stats - "the game was different" and "but Tom Brady's entire offense was crap."

Typical response on this board when it comes to AJM - aversion of facts and data, abundance of special pleading and post-hoc rationalizations.

I don't really care who you want to throw out there from recent draft classes, good luck finding one with that comp%, TD%, INT%, YPA and QB rating in their first season in the NFL.

I'm sure this is really frustrating for the AJM bashers, all these statistics in black and white.  I guess that's why people resort to ignorant comments like "he can't beat zone" and "he gets sacked too much" and "he played like crap" and "he lost us the game" and "other QBs didn't have such a great super-awesome team like AJM had."

Matt Cassel sat on the bench behind Tom Brady for 3 whole years before he was pressed into duty.  Do you really think AJM would play the same or worse than he did in 2015 if he were to take over at QB this year?

Why do you think teams won't trade for McCarron if he's even as half as good as you try and act like he is? Why didn't the Eagles go after a much cheaper QB in McCarron when they still gave a 1st for Bradford? I doubt McCarron will even be a starter for a team in the future barring injuries. Teams see that McCarron had a lot of help from the defense in every game McCarron won in 2015. McCarron isn't anything special. I don't even think he's starter material.

(04-15-2017, 09:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except he's right... passing in the league was vastly different in 2001 than in 2015.


In 2015 there were 13 teams that threw for at least 4,000 yards.
In 2001? There was 1.

In 2015, there were 13 teams that threw for at least 30 TDs.
In 2001? There was 3.

In 2015 there were 15 teams with a QB Rating over 90.
In 2001? There was 4.

In 2015 there were 4 teams that threw at least 20 INT.
In 2001? There was 10.

- - - - - - - - - - -

We all know you have a constant hardon for McCarron, but the fact remains that he was surrounded by the best offensive weapons probably any Bengals team has ever had.

You say good luck finding those % numbers with someone else in their first season, I say McCarron wasn't in his first season and he was basically a game manager on a dumbed down offense on at the time, one of the most talented offenses in the NFL.



To answer your final question (as if your posts are actually anything more than constant love letters to McCarron) yes, he would do much worse than he did in 2015 if he took over this year. AJ Green is coming off an injury, Tyler Eifert had a disc removed, Gio is coming off a torn ACL, Hill still sucks, Whitworth and Zeitler are gone, Andre Smith sucks and is playing a position he's never played before, and Ogbuehi/Bodine/Fisher are starting on the three most important positions on the line.

If McCarron started for the 2017 Bengals, he would be hot garbage, and then eventually break when he held onto the ball for too long or got happy feet.


But of course I am wasting my words, because we all know you will just see "McCarron" and...

That's why I use rate stats as my argument, darsh.

Rate stats render the "it was a different league" arguments irrelevant.

Nice, both of our QB's biggest fans are debating now.

I say trade mccarron and bench Dalton. Driskel is the next Tom Brady.

(04-15-2017, 09:35 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why do you think teams won't trade for McCarron if he's even as half as good as you try and act like he is? Why didn't the Eagles go after a much cheaper QB in McCarron when they still gave a 1st for Bradford? I doubt McCarron will even be a starter for a team in the future barring injuries. Teams see that McCarron had a lot of help from the defense in every game McCarron won in 2015. McCarron isn't anything special. I don't even think he's starter material.

What you have access to are statistics and facts.

What you can peddle is opinion.

What you will never know is what teams did or did not inquire about AJM, and what the Bengals front office did or did not demand for his services.

(04-15-2017, 09:41 PM)BigSeph Wrote: That's why I use rate stats as my argument, darsh.

Rate stats render the "it was a different league" arguments irrelevant.

No it really doesn't. You said "good luck finding one with that comp%, TD%, INT%, YPA and QB rating" so using those statistics that you chose....



Comp %
2015: 10 teams over 65%
2001: 2 teams over 65%

TD%
2015: 12 teams over 5.0%
2001: 5 teams over 5.0%

INT%
2015: 21 teams under 2.5%
2001: 3 teams under 2.5%

YPA
2015: 21 teams over 7.0 YPA
2001: 9 teams over 7.0 YPA

QB Rating
2015: 15 teams over 90.0
2001: 4 teams over 90.0



"...when it comes to AJM - aversion of facts and data..."

So regardless of how much you want to pretend otherwise, it was a different league.

(04-15-2017, 10:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No it really doesn't. You said "good luck finding one with that comp%, TD%, INT%, YPA and QB rating" so using those statistics that you chose....



Comp %
2015: 10 teams over 65%
2001: 2 teams over 65%

TD%
2015: 12 teams over 5.0%
2001: 5 teams over 5.0%

INT%
2015: 21 teams under 2.5%
2001: 3 teams under 2.5%

YPA
2015: 21 teams over 7.0 YPA
2001: 9 teams over 7.0 YPA

QB Rating
2015: 15 teams over 90.0
2001: 4 teams over 90.0



"...when it comes to AJM - aversion of facts and data..."

So regardless of how much you want to pretend otherwise, it was a different league.

(04-15-2017, 10:06 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No it really doesn't. You said "good luck finding one with that comp%, TD%, INT%, YPA and QB rating" so using those statistics that you chose....



Comp %
2015: 10 teams over 65%
2001: 2 teams over 65%

TD%
2015: 12 teams over 5.0%
2001: 5 teams over 5.0%

INT%
2015: 21 teams under 2.5%
2001: 3 teams under 2.5%

YPA
2015: 21 teams over 7.0 YPA
2001: 9 teams over 7.0 YPA

QB Rating
2015: 15 teams over 90.0
2001: 4 teams over 90.0



"...when it comes to AJM - aversion of facts and data..."

So regardless of how much you want to pretend otherwise, it was a different league.

Oh I should have been more clear, I was talking about QBs making their first NFL starts. But we'll go with your "it's not all that impressive because it was 2015" angle.

Who are the QBs from 2015 who met all those criteria?

Equal or higher comp%-

Kirk Cousins
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Roethlisberger
Matt Stafford

Equal or higher TD%-

Cam Newton

Russell Wilson
Andy Dalton
Carson Palmer
Tom Brady
Blake Bortles
Eli Manning
Derek Carr
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Kirk Cousins
Tyrod Taylor
Drew Brees
Marcus Mariota
Brian Hoyer
Andrew Luck

Equal or better INT%-

Tom Brady

Josh McCown
Aaron Rodgers
Alex Smith
Tyrod Taylor

Equal or better YPA-

23 QBs

Equal or better QB rating-

Russell Wilson

Andy Dalton
Carson Palmer
Tom Brady
Kirk Cousins
Drew  Brees
Tyrod Taylor
Cam Newton

So even in 2015, year of everybody passing, there was not one single QB in the NFL whose rate stats equaled or surpassed McCarron's.

That is significant.

(04-17-2017, 06:23 AM)BigSeph Wrote: Oh I should have been more clear, I was talking about QBs making their first NFL starts.  But we'll go with your "it's not all that impressive because it was 2015" angle.

Who are the QBs from 2015 who met all those criteria?

Equal or higher comp%-

Kirk Cousins
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson
Roethlisberger
Matt Stafford

Equal or higher TD%-

Cam Newton

Russell Wilson
Andy Dalton
Carson Palmer
Tom Brady
Blake Bortles
Eli Manning
Derek Carr
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Kirk Cousins
Tyrod Taylor
Drew Brees
Marcus Mariota
Brian Hoyer
Andrew Luck

Equal or better INT%-

Tom Brady

Josh McCown
Aaron Rodgers
Alex Smith
Tyrod Taylor

Equal or better YPA-

23 QBs

Equal or better QB rating-

Russell Wilson

Andy Dalton
Carson Palmer
Tom Brady
Kirk Cousins
Drew  Brees
Tyrod Taylor
Cam Newton

So even in 2015, year of everybody passing, there was not one single QB in the NFL whose rate stats equaled or surpassed McCarron's.

That is significant.

.....but he only played any significant time in 5 games.....

(04-17-2017, 02:39 PM)Wyche Wrote: .....but he only played any significant time in 5 games.....

He's talking about McCarron's regular season stats, which would've been only 4 games. 

As we all know, if he included that 5th game, the efficiency stats would all drop.

Btw...that completion % was greatly aided by the fact that Mac dink and dunked constantly. Check the YPA for his 3 regular season starts. Dink and dunk city

Trade McCarron for Cleveland's 2nd round pick if they want him. Sign Kaep to back up Andy. Use your high picks to beef up the DL and get a WR. Profit

(04-17-2017, 05:04 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Trade McCarron for Cleveland's 2nd round pick if they want him. Sign Kaep to back up Andy. Use your high picks to beef up the DL and get a WR. Profit

I'm not so sure the city would get behind someone who refused to stand for the national anthem regardless of reason.

Why is it when we have two players at a position only one of them can be labeled has good. Why can't it be we have one excellent player and another player is good and can develop into a quality starter?

(04-17-2017, 05:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not so sure the city would get behind someone who refused to stand for the national anthem regardless of reason.

If he plays well the city will forget about it

(04-17-2017, 05:32 PM)J24 Wrote: Why is it when we have two players at a position only one of them  can be labeled has good. Why can't it be we have one excellent player and another player is good and can develop into a quality starter?

If the position in question is QB, we don't have one excellent player.

(04-17-2017, 05:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm not so sure the city would get behind someone who refused to stand for the national anthem regardless of reason.

I wouldn't. It wasn't just the anthem protest either. The piggy socks, castro shirts, ridiculous 'fro and constant political ignorance from a guy that didn't vote were almost as bad.

(04-17-2017, 05:48 PM)eoxyod Wrote: If he plays well the city will forget about it

I won't, and Kaepernick (a) isn't likely to play and (b) isn't likely to play well. 

Kaepernick is a bad QB with a shitty attitude. Not sure why so many want that. 

Offseason programs have started. Trade in division is highly unlikely now. No way they give him updated playbook and offense 2017 plans just for him to take to Cleveland. Time to move on from McCarron trade folks. It's not happening.

(04-18-2017, 02:21 PM)jj22 Wrote: Offseason programs have started. Trade in division is highly unlikely now. No way they give him updated playbook and offense 2017 plans just for him to take to Cleveland. Time to move on from McCarron trade folks. It's not happening.

Unless they didn't give him an updated playbook in case he gets traded. 

(04-18-2017, 01:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I won't, and Kaepernick (a) isn't likely to play and (b) isn't likely to play well. 

Kaepernick is a bad QB with a shitty attitude. Not sure why so many want that. 

But he actually did play pretty well. He had the highest drop % from his receivers by a mile. He's not a top 20 QB, but in your backup QB you want someone who is high reward which he has clearly shown to have. He has some variability but it's better than a backup QB that plays safe and gets you nowhere as a result.

Also I wish all QB with a bad attitude stood up for things he believes in strongly and donates tons of money to charity and relief efforts. Politics aside I really don't understand the attitude problem people see in him. He has been classy through a LOT of hate

(04-18-2017, 01:26 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I wouldn't. It wasn't just the anthem protest either. The piggy socks, castro shirts, ridiculous 'fro and constant political ignorance from a guy that didn't vote were almost as bad.


I won't, and Kaepernick (a) isn't likely to play and (b) isn't likely to play well. 

Kaepernick is a bad QB with a shitty attitude. Not sure why so many want that. 

(04-18-2017, 03:27 PM)eoxyod Wrote: But he actually did play pretty well. He had the highest drop % from his receivers by a mile. He's not a top 20 QB, but in your backup QB you want someone who is high reward which he has clearly shown to have. He has some variability but it's better than a backup QB that plays safe and gets you nowhere as a result.

Also I wish all QB with a bad attitude stood up for things he believes in strongly and donates tons of money to charity and relief efforts. Politics aside I really don't understand the attitude problem people see in him. He has been classy through a LOT of hate

.......and he makes sure everyone knows how many dollars he donates via a website, of his own, that details to the last penny and to whom.  Who does that? Also, from what I've read, he wasn't doing much until he started facing backlash. I will give him props for actually donating.....but it reeks of a PR move. Oh well, any money to help the less fortunate is a good thing, regardless of the motive.