http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800919/article/john-ross-bonds-with-bengals-lewis-would-love-to-play-for-him

Still think if they draft a WR it will be Ross. I doubt they draft a WR in rounds 1-2

(04-20-2017, 02:38 PM)Okeana Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800919/article/john-ross-bonds-with-bengals-lewis-would-love-to-play-for-him

Still think if they draft a WR it will be Ross.  I doubt they draft a WR in rounds 1-2

I believe Ross and a large portion of the guys we met with are in play if we trade back into the mid to late teens. I am starting to believe that may be the plan if all pass rushers we like are gone.

(04-20-2017, 02:38 PM)Okeana Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800919/article/john-ross-bonds-with-bengals-lewis-would-love-to-play-for-him

Still think if they draft a WR it will be Ross.  I doubt they draft a WR in rounds 1-2

If the Bengals draft John Ross or OJ Howard...

(04-20-2017, 02:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If the Bengals draft John Ross or OJ Howard...

Imagine a trade back that allowed you to go

1.Ross, 2.Willis, 2.Eflfein, 3.Hunt

(04-20-2017, 02:54 PM)Au165 Wrote: Imagine a trade back that allowed you to go

1.Ross, 2.Willis, 2.Eflfein, 3.Hunt

(04-20-2017, 02:38 PM)Okeana Wrote: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000800919/article/john-ross-bonds-with-bengals-lewis-would-love-to-play-for-him

Still think if they draft a WR it will be Ross. I doubt they draft a WR in rounds 1-2

Let me preface this by saying I AM NOT comparing arguably the best WR in the league with an unproven John Ross, but:

The bengals see what Antonio Brown brings to Pittsburgh. The two are similar in stature, Ross runs great routes and is even faster than AB. They see what it takes to guard AB and how he helps everyone else on the field with him. They know it all too well. Do they see john Ross as their eventual AB? Time will tell.

What I know for sure is if the pass rusher they want is not there, I hope they don't reach for one they are not totally sold on. If they choose Ross at 9, I certainly won't be mad. And if they trade back and still get Ross I'll be ecstatic. Take a good DE in the second and fill that need then. (Hopefully Willis)

I found it really interesting Ross liked Lewis, seemingly above all other coaches he's talked to. I hear we have Ross > Williams on our board.

Should be interesting.

Again, Ross only has elite straight line speed. That's it.

(04-20-2017, 07:18 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Again, Ross only has elite straight line speed. That's it.

He creates easy separation.

If we are going to take a risk on a guy with a laundry list of injuries... At least being the fastest ever greatly softens that blow for me. 

After Lapham predicted we draft old baby hands Fuller last year in the first I was pisssed. But after a little convincing of myself i no longer hated the idea of drafting game breaking speed.

This guy would scare the shit out of everybody lined up opposite AJ.

My point is at the 20 yard mark hes average speed. So hes only good for go routes.

Ross would make 3 and 4 receiver sets look very interesting.

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(04-20-2017, 03:46 PM)TGISunday Wrote: I found it really interesting Ross liked Lewis, seemingly above all other coaches he's talked to.  I hear we have Ross > Williams on our board.

Should be interesting.

Where did u hear that? All ive heard is williams is over any other pass catcher. 

(04-20-2017, 03:18 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: Let me preface this by saying I AM NOT comparing arguably the best WR in the league with an unproven John Ross, but:

The bengals see what Antonio Brown brings to Pittsburgh. The two are similar in stature, Ross runs great routes and is even faster than AB. They see what it takes to guard AB and how he helps everyone else on the field with him. They know it all too well. Do they see john Ross as their eventual AB? Time will tell.

What I know for sure is if the pass rusher they want is not there, I hope they don't reach for one they are not totally sold on.  If they choose Ross at 9, I certainly won't be mad. And if they trade back and still get Ross I'll be ecstatic. Take a good DE in the second and fill that need then. (Hopefully Willis)

Feel the exact same way. We are on the same page unlike Jpoore who is obviously biased for Mike Williams.

I say what i like about Mike Williams and don't say... Mike Williams is just a big receiver who goes up for the ball well..

Which would not tell the whole story about Mike Williams who would be a good pick IMO.

John Ross is not just speed, he is a good route runner, has good hands and has an insane pass/TD rate. INSANE.

He is not just the go route, this is unfair when speaking of John Ross.

Would absolutely love it if we traded back and got JR and another pick, probably would love it more than any other 1st round scenario.

But like you said, wouldn't be mad with Ross at 9. Or Mike Williams for that matter.

(04-20-2017, 07:18 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Again, Ross only has elite straight line speed. That's it.

I think that's, at best, a simplistic view. At worst, lazy.

(04-20-2017, 08:21 PM)Jpoore Wrote: My point is at the 20 yard mark hes average speed. So hes only good for go routes.

See this scouting profile:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/03/john-ross-nfl-draft-scouting-report

After watching some film, it's clear he has a forte. But he's really adept at several short-to-intermediate routes. Very shifty. Compare this to Dede Westbrook who is 9 routes all day, and nary anything else.

(04-20-2017, 09:32 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Where did u hear that? All ive heard is williams is over any other pass catcher. 

Take it for what it's worth; but apparently Tobin was out with his agent at some engagement, and a friend of my buddy's Sat with him and he readily gave some good info: Solomon Thomas is #1 on their board, they love Fournette, don't like Cook, love allen, and rate Ross above Williams. Edit: OH, they see Barnett as a poor athlete, better taken in the twenties.

If the above reads like total b.s., I can't hold it against you. All I know is my buddy showed me the stream of texts from his mate after the conference. Again, grain of salt.

(04-20-2017, 09:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Feel the exact same way. We are on the same page unlike Jpoore who is obviously biased for Mike Williams.

I say what i like about Mike Williams and don't say... Mike Williams is just a big receiver who goes up for the ball well..

Which would not tell the whole story about Mike Williams who would be a good pick IMO.

John Ross is not just speed, he is a good route runner, has good hands and has an insane pass/TD rate. INSANE.

He is not just the go route, this is unfair when speaking of John Ross.

Would absolutely love it if we traded back and got JR and another pick, probably would love it more than any other 1st round scenario.

But like you said, wouldn't be mad with Ross at 9. Or Mike Williams for that matter.

I may be a littlw hard on ross i admit. But i have to be because a lot of people (not you, u can actually understand reason) are acting like he will just blow by people. It takes him about 30 yards or so to hit that elite speed. At the 20 yard split hes got the same time as 2 players who ran a 4.41 and 4.50 respectively(humphrey and cook). Yes hes a good route runner, and if he were avaliable around 22 or so, i would take him gladly. But to act like hes just gonna run right by everyone is asanine. Everyone on here seems to think hell just run by everyone. He wont. And the main cincern is the microfracture surgery. 70 percent of microfracture surgery needs another within 10 years. Thats my concern more than anything. And you are right i do have a bias of mike williams, but only bc i think hell help our offense more than ross. U think the opposite. I respect that.

(04-20-2017, 10:03 PM)TGISunday Wrote: I think that's, at best, a simplistic view. At worst, lazy.
See this scouting profile:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/03/john-ross-nfl-draft-scouting-report

After watching some film, it's clear he has a forte. But he's really adept at several short-to-intermediate routes. Very shifty. Compare this to Dede Westbrook who is 9 routes all day, and nary anything else.

Take it for what it's worth; but apparently Tobin was out with his agent at some engagement, and a friend of my buddy's Sat with him and he readily gave some good info: Solomon Thomas is #1 on their board, they love Fournette, don't like Cook, love allen, and rate Ross above Williams. Edit: OH, they see Barnett as a poor athlete, better taken in the twenties.

If the above reads like total b.s., I can't hold it against you. All I know is my buddy showed me the stream of texts from his mate after the conference. Again, grain of salt.

Yeah but as mentioned above, hes not gonna have that 4.22 speed until the 30 yard mark. Is he elite enough of a cb to get seperation against man press on short and intermediate routes? I dont believe so. Its why i believe williams would be better on our offense.

John Ross should be the pick. I wouldn't even mess around with trading down. His potential is too much to ignore and he helps the team just by existing because DB's WILL have to honor his speed and play back, which will open up the field for underneath routs, especially to our TE's.

(04-21-2017, 12:50 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I may be a littlw hard on ross i admit. But i have to be because a lot of people (not you, u can actually understand reason) are acting like he will just blow by people. It takes him about 30 yards or so to hit that elite speed. At the 20 yard split hes got the same time as 2 players who ran a 4.41 and 4.50 respectively(humphrey and cook). Yes hes a good route runner, and if he were avaliable around 22 or so, i would take him gladly. But to act like hes just gonna run right by everyone is asanine. Everyone on here seems to think hell just run by everyone.  He wont. And the main cincern is the microfracture surgery. 70 percent of microfracture surgery needs another within 10 years. Thats my concern more than anything. And you are right i do have a bias of mike williams, but only bc i think hell help our offense more than ross. U think the opposite. I respect that.
Yeah but as mentioned above, hes not gonna have that 4.22 speed until the 30 yard mark. Is he elite enough of a cb to get seperation against man press on short and intermediate routes? I dont believe so. Its why i believe williams would be better on our offense.

Where did you see the 20 yard splits? I tried searching for it and can't find it.
And where did John Ross and the other two players who ran a 4.41 and 4.50 end up in the overall WR 20 yard split rankings?

For the record, you're right in that he's not just going to win with just speed. He won't always blow by people.
But to say he's "just straight line fast" is just wrong. He wins with more than just speed.
He is very shifty, runs a variety of routes, and has amazing footwork to fool defenders.
There are plenty of videos to watch that demonstrate this.

When you've argued for Mike Williams in the past, you've said he compares to Keenan Allen and Alshon Jeffery, then you say, "Wouldn't you want Allen/Jeffery?"
I counter that with saying John Ross is as shifty as Antonio Brown but faster. Antonio Brown has been better than both Allen and Jeffery. Wouldn't you want Antonio Brown opposite of AJ Green? Other comparisons have been DeSean Jackson and Brandin Cooks. You wouldn't want either of those players? I'd rather Antonio Brown, Brandin Cooks, or DeSean Jackson over Keenan Allen or Alshon Jeffery.

At worst, I think John Ross's floor is John Brown from Arizona. John Brown was drafted in the third round because he played in D2 and has been pretty good (but not spectacular) in his first three seasons. As fast as John Brown is, Ross is even faster, so he should be more productive than John Brown even just from a deep threat perspective.

(04-21-2017, 12:50 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I may be a littlw hard on ross i admit. But i have to be because a lot of people (not you, u can actually understand reason) are acting like he will just blow by people. It takes him about 30 yards or so to hit that elite speed. At the 20 yard split hes got the same time as 2 players who ran a 4.41 and 4.50 respectively(humphrey and cook). Yes hes a good route runner, and if he were avaliable around 22 or so, i would take him gladly. But to act like hes just gonna run right by everyone is asanine. Everyone on here seems to think hell just run by everyone.  He wont. And the main cincern is the microfracture surgery. 70 percent of microfracture surgery needs another within 10 years. Thats my concern more than anything. And you are right i do have a bias of mike williams, but only bc i think hell help our offense more than ross. U think the opposite. I respect that.
Yeah but as mentioned above, hes not gonna have that 4.22 speed until the 30 yard mark. Is he elite enough of a cb to get seperation against man press on short and intermediate routes? I dont believe so. Its why i believe williams would be better on our offense.

Well, atleast you admit it man.

But i disagree when you say he doesnt' get up to speed fast, cause he does, if he wants to.

He sets up DB's, makes them fall asleep and takes off. It is masterful to watch.

As Ocho here says...

(04-21-2017, 10:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Where did you see the 20 yard splits? I tried searching for it and can't find it.
And where did John Ross and the other two players who ran a 4.41 and 4.50 end up in the overall WR 20 yard split rankings?

For the record, you're right in that he's not just going to win with just speed. He won't always blow by people.
But to say he's "just straight line fast" is just wrong. He wins with more than just speed.
He is very shifty, runs a variety of routes, and has amazing footwork to fool defenders.
There are plenty of videos to watch that demonstrate this.

When you've argued for Mike Williams in the past, you've said he compares to Keenan Allen and Alshon Jeffery, then you say, "Wouldn't you want Allen/Jeffery?"
I counter that with saying John Ross is as shifty as Antonio Brown but faster. Antonio Brown has been better than both Allen and Jeffery. Wouldn't you want Antonio Brown opposite of AJ Green? Other comparisons have been DeSean Jackson and Brandin Cooks. You wouldn't want either of those players? I'd rather Antonio Brown, Brandin Cooks, or DeSean Jackson over Keenan Allen or Alshon Jeffery.

At worst, I think John Ross's floor is John Brown from Arizona. John Ross was drafted in the third round because he played in D2 and has been pretty good (but not spectacular) in his first three seasons. As fast as John Brown is, Ross is even faster, so he should be more productive than John Brown even just from a deep threat perspective.

Yes, i take an Antonio Brown over an Alshon Jeffery ever day of the week.

(04-21-2017, 10:21 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Where did you see the 20 yard splits? I tried searching for it and can't find it.
And where did John Ross and the other two players who ran a 4.41 and 4.50 end up in the overall WR 20 yard split rankings?

For the record, you're right in that he's not just going to win with just speed. He won't always blow by people.
But to say he's "just straight line fast" is just wrong. He wins with more than just speed.
He is very shifty, runs a variety of routes, and has amazing footwork to fool defenders.
There are plenty of videos to watch that demonstrate this.

When you've argued for Mike Williams in the past, you've said he compares to Keenan Allen and Alshon Jeffery, then you say, "Wouldn't you want Allen/Jeffery?"
I counter that with saying John Ross is as shifty as Antonio Brown but faster. Antonio Brown has been better than both Allen and Jeffery. Wouldn't you want Antonio Brown opposite of AJ Green? Other comparisons have been DeSean Jackson and Brandin Cooks. You wouldn't want either of those players? I'd rather Antonio Brown, Brandin Cooks, or DeSean Jackson over Keenan Allen or Alshon Jeffery.

At worst, I think John Ross's floor is John Brown from Arizona. John Brown was drafted in the third round because he played in D2 and has been pretty good (but not spectacular) in his first three seasons. As fast as John Brown is, Ross is even faster, so he should be more productive than John Brown even just from a deep threat perspective.

It was on sports science.2.67 20 yard split. And a healthy jeffery is a top 6 wr. To me williams floor is higher that ross floor. And i believe with our oline and everything else, that a big bodied wr would be more benificial to our offense. Yes hes a good route runner and everything, but his transition to the nfl will be lengthy bc he is highly highly suspect in press man.

Breaking news or not ......Michael Lombardi said that John Ross' medicals are "terrible". Uh oh..