The Bengals use linebackers like they're playing in the AFC North of 10 years ago...run thumpers that are slow.

Getting rid of Maualuga for Minter was big.

We need to get Linebackers who can rush the passer...and cover TE's. THAT'S what the NFL is geared towards.

When our defensive line could get pressure from the front 4 only...that not only masked our weak zone pass coverage...but also the LB's deficiencies listed above.

We definitely need help at LB, those who say otherwise don't pay attention. We constantly get roasted by TE's and we only have 1 game changer there, add another one in and boom all of a sudden our defense becomes a lot more efficient.

At Pick 9 and again at pick 41 there is going to be amazing talent at LB. If we are going on the Paul Brown Best Available Athlete it's hard not to look at the linebackers early in one or two that are way above most draft years. That All American high school star from Florida that Urban Meyer recruited for Ohio State would normally be a first round but in this draft year of linebackers he may be there at pick 41. This is a good draft year for linebackers. I use to be higher on Rey until he was given more to do. Everybody complained about draft Virgil and I don't see what he has done to instill so much confidence in last years losing season. I am not that high on Rey and Virgil. How good is Minter, we don't know yet. Burfict is good when he plays but I have to question his team captain leadership abilities because sometimes teams can goat him into a total lack of focus, such as Steelers. Many on here are talking of playing in 4-2 packages with only a front 6 and not a front 7. So you are thinking in terms of 2 linebackers and the rest as bench players. So we are ruling out ever having and 3-4 packages. We are ruling out ever having any 4-3 packages. You are saying the new NFL is the 4-2. Funny, I see winning teams playing 3-4 or at least 4-3. On offense I see teams running the ball. I do not see a pass only NFL. I see teams running the ball. OK, Patriots with Brady mostly passed last year. When he retires I look for them to run more as they use to. Cowboys certainly ran it up our rear ends all game. Steelers ran it up our rear ends all game. Steelers have that stable of good running backs. If we are in a 4-2 we are going to get bulldozed over. I have seen too many games where good teams such as Steelers or Patriots have just ran the ball on our Bengals the entire 4th quarter as they eat clock and win the game. As good as our D Line is the good teams have good O Lines when the ball is snapped. As the good teams runners crash behind their good O Lines it is key that we have the linebackers to make a stop and get the ball back. We play the Steelers twice a year and they can flat out run the football so how do we intend to stop it. Ravens also run and look for Cleveland to try to develop a running game which Cleveland for decades was known for. If it's true in the AFC North you need good running backs, then it is true in the AFC North you better have front 7 to stop the run. Not a front 6 but a front 7.

I can't believe so many are talking in terms of Bengals playing a front 6. Most teams play a front 7 in either a 3-4 which we went to 2 Super Bowls with, or a 4-3 which Marvin Lewis coached with Ravens. Marvin Lewis Ravens 4-3 had a good D line, but it had 3 Pro Bowl linebackers. I don't see the Bengals winning many games in a 4-2-5 and never a play-off win. Never a play-off win because teams good enough to make play-offs will destroy a 4-2-5 with their top O Lines and top running backs. We will watch the other team run the ball up our rear ends all game, which we have seen in many play-off games. Steelers, Jets, Texans, Chargers. Colts. If it really was a touch football NFL of all passing I would agree with only needing 2 starting linebackers. I see an NFL that has brought back tight ends and is bringing back fullbacks and is running the ball. I see an NFL that tried the no tight end and no fullback all WR formations and saw it doesn't win. An NFL that has went back to the run game in a huge way and 2 linebackers just won't be enough. In fact Steelers still play a 3-4. A lot of team use a 3-4 and these teams win. Bengals are the team that has gone 26 years without a play-off win.

The 4-2 sounds weak to me. Way too weak. We do not have the linebackers to play a 4-3 and certainly don't have the linebackers for any 3-4 packages to use now and then. The 4-2 sounds too Bengals of 26 years with no play-off wins. Steelers are going to have linebackers. Ravens are going to have linebackers. Even Browns are going to try to have linebackers. All these teams are going to try to run the ball up our rear ends. Seems to me Burfict and Minter are NOT enough. Not in the AFC North. This years draft is loaded in linebacker talent in first 2 rounds which is rare. This is the year for Bengals to get a team captain linebacker over the next 10 years and man up with the teams in big boy pants which we have not done in 26 years. We have Atkins and Dunlap and a good secondary but our linebackers are not that good. I can see taking a D Lineman in round one if that is best athlete on the board, and at pick 9 there may be a D Lineman that falls due to a team taking a QB, and a top D Lineman falls to us, I can see that. At least at the top of round 2 dip into this very talented pool of linebackers in this draft. They are there and I'm saying a 4-2 is not enough, not even close to enough to win in the AFC North. Bill Bergey was a round 2. There is amazing talent probably at the top of this years round 2. If not in one, at least in two. Those wanting all offense, remember fans may like offense, but you win with defense. If the Ohio State LB or JJ Watts talented linebacker brother are there in round 2 with other rare talent LBs, the cupboard is full of LB talent this draft unlike last few years drafts of few top LBs. Our Defense has slipped a little and was not as good last year as it has been. Lets say we take a D Lineman in one and a LB in two, or vise versa, you add those top picks to Atkins, Dunlap and our secondary and our defense should be back to play-off form with the goal to have a Super Bowl Defense.

(04-23-2017, 04:30 PM)eoxyod Wrote: LB is the least important position on defense if you have one good one and 2 other decentish ones. Defensive line will always need to be beefed up much more and linebackers manage to look much better

Bs, qbs feast off our 2 other decentish lbs... alall this talk about lbers not being important is complete rubbish 

(04-23-2017, 04:26 PM)kevin Wrote: Yes or No

I am a NO.....I am not content with Bengals linebackers. Those who say we are solid and don't need any help here, I just don't see how they can say that.  I have considered LB a weak area on Bengals for years and going from Harrison to Hawk to Dansby to Minter doesn't change that even with this yearly revolving door we have lost talented LB's and we never draft a top LB.  To think Burfict can be a one man wrecking crew is silly.  I don't see us ever getting that play-off win until we upgrade linebacker to play-off win status.  One of the best players in the draft is Foster at LB.  I don't care about all this MAC, SAM, WILL,  Outside Linebacker, Middle Linebacker, Pass Rush Linebacker stuff.  The way I see it, we need help, period, and Best Available Athlete at LB should be able to upgrade our Linebackers no matter what tag put on him.  Coach him up, get him on the field and let him hit people.  I'm hoping for the LSU RB or LB Thursday, but D Line would be OK.  If we don't get a LB in round one or at least early in two, we have missed our chance to upgrade a weak area.

I'm content after the pickup of Minter. Yes, it's only 1 year, but I have confidence the Bengals will look to extend him or draft a LB early to take over after this year.
If the Bengals plan/hope to sign Minter to an extension by next offseason, I think a Day 3 depth pick is the most likely scenario for this draft.

Signing Minter was smart and it makes the LB position less of a need now however I think whatever team gets Rueben Foster is going to be very happy. I think the Bengals are targeting Barnett and OJ Howard with their first pick.

(04-24-2017, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm content after the pickup of Minter. Yes, it's only 1 year, but I have confidence the Bengals will look to extend him or draft a LB early to take over after this year.
If the Bengals plan/hope to sign Minter to an extension by next offseason, I think a Day 3 depth pick is the most likely scenario for this draft.

Prior to the addition of Minter, I was concerned about the LB corps, now not so much.  I'm probably more comfortable with them adding a vet than a top notch rookie.  Being an established pro, Minter only has to acclimate to his new team, coaches and scheme, to settle into his role.  A rookie has the entire transition to the pro game, compared to the college game, as well as the other variables associated with being in a new place.

The only reason I would think the Bengals go LB in either of 1st two rounds, is if Guenther is planning on doing some things schematically.  In that case, I could see them looking for another LB to fill a specific role, such as covering TEs or acting as edge rusher in the 3-4 (5-2) looks that Guenther likes to show.

Seeing how Burfict showed up to work outs looking in shape, and with no administrative activity looming, or any surgical recoveries to contend with, I expect a huge year out of him.  His contract negotiations should be interesting, when they come. 

(04-24-2017, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm content after the pickup of Minter. Yes, it's only 1 year, but I have confidence the Bengals will look to extend him or draft a LB early to take over after this year.
If the Bengals plan/hope to sign Minter to an extension by next offseason, I think a Day 3 depth pick is the most likely scenario for this draft.

My understanding was that the Bengals wanted to sign him for multiple years...but Minter only wanted a 1 year deal banking on having a huge season and cashing in.

The only way the Bengals will extend him during the year is if he starts the year on fire and they give him a huge contract. I'd say the odds of that are unlikely.

(04-23-2017, 08:26 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You can't rely on Burfict to play 16 games, Minter is on a 1 year deal, and the run defense has shown to take an enormous step back when Burfict is out (or fat).

So I would like to see a 4th round LB added. Unless you want to pick up Jabrill Peppers in the 2nd and just play him as a S/LB hybrid.

Burfict has only missed significant time due to injury twice in 5 seasons, played 16 games twice, and only missed 2 games due to injury last year. I think it's a bit soon to start calling him an injury liability. I don't think his weight affected him last year, it was just something for people to complain about during a lost season. Yes Minter was signed to a 1 year deal, but we could (a) resign him next year and if not (b) sign someone else or draft someone then. 

I'm not at all confident in a 4th round pick to eventually become the full-time replacement at MLB. May as well roll with Minter and see what happens. If all else fails, take the position more seriously (than a 4th rounder) next year. Mind you, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a guy in the 4th round, but I just don't see it as a dire need. A 4th round rookie isn't going to be a good substitute for Burfict this year...or anyone else.

Not content, but think DE and OL are bigger needs. I'd be ok with Bengals taking one anywhere but 1st round (unless the trade down from #9 spot) as there doesn't appear to be an LB worth a top 10 pick. Reuben Foster would have been worth it for his on-field play, but given the recent issues, I wouldn't be comfortable with taking him at #9.

Reality is, LB is not at a premium for a 4-3 defense, and on top of that, we are in nickel defense well over 50% of the time, which means only two of them on the field.  Yes, we could upgrade, but we would get better results upgrading other positions.


THIS^^^  Huge Rueben Fan and although id love him at 9 it would make the minter sign pointless.  and to the point of only two on the field at once burfict and minter can take care of that and truthfully if dawson plays like he fricken should this wouldnt even be a debate so not at 9 il take jarrod davis with our 2nd if he falls or kendall beckwith later but not at 9 imo as well

Yes - I'm ok with it for right now, pre-draft. But if Foster is BPOB at 9 - welcome to Cincy!

(04-24-2017, 01:27 PM)BengalD Wrote: Yes - I'm ok with it for right now, pre-draft.  But if Foster is BPOB at 9 - welcome to Cincy!

With his failed test and what happened at the hospital...I doubt the Bengals would touch him at 9.

(04-24-2017, 01:30 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With his failed test and what happened at the hospital...I doubt the Bengals would touch him at 9.

I heard about the hospital deal, but didn't know anything about a failed test.  Did he fail a whiz quiz? 

(04-24-2017, 11:42 AM)kevin Wrote: At Pick 9 and again at pick 41 there is going to be amazing talent at LB.  If we are going on the Paul Brown Best Available Athlete it's hard not to look at the linebackers early in one or two that are way above most draft years.  That All American high school star from Florida that Urban Meyer recruited for Ohio State would normally be a first round but in this draft year of linebackers he may be there at pick 41.  This is a good draft year for linebackers.  I use to be higher on Rey until he was given more to do.  Everybody complained about draft Virgil and I don't see what he has done to instill so much confidence in last years losing season.  I am not that high on Rey and Virgil.  How good is Minter, we don't know yet. Burfict is good when he plays but I have to question his team captain leadership abilities because sometimes teams can goat him into a total lack of focus, such as Steelers.  Many on here are talking of playing in 4-2 packages with only a front 6 and not a front 7.  So you are thinking in terms of 2 linebackers and the rest as bench players.  So we are ruling out ever having and 3-4 packages.  We are ruling out ever having any 4-3 packages.  You are saying the new NFL is the 4-2.  Funny, I see winning teams playing 3-4 or at least 4-3.  On offense I see teams running the ball.  I do not see a pass only NFL. I see teams running the ball.  OK, Patriots with Brady mostly passed last year. When he retires I look for them to run more as they use to.  Cowboys certainly ran it up our rear ends all game. Steelers ran it up our rear ends all game.  Steelers have that stable of good running backs. If we are in a 4-2 we are going to get bulldozed over.  I have seen too many games where good teams such as Steelers or Patriots have just ran the ball on our Bengals the entire 4th quarter as they eat clock and win the game. As good as our D Line is the good teams have good O Lines when the ball is snapped. As the good teams runners crash behind their good O Lines it is key that we have the linebackers to make a stop and get the ball back.  We play the Steelers twice a year and they can flat out run the football so how do we intend to stop it.  Ravens also run and look for Cleveland to try to develop a running game which Cleveland for decades was known for. If it's true in the AFC North you need good running backs, then it is true in the AFC North you better have front 7 to stop the run. Not a front 6 but a front 7.  

I can't believe so many are talking in terms of Bengals playing a front 6.  Most teams play a front 7 in either a 3-4 which we went to 2 Super Bowls with, or a 4-3 which Marvin Lewis coached with Ravens. Marvin Lewis Ravens 4-3 had a good D line, but it had 3 Pro Bowl linebackers.  I don't see the Bengals winning many games in a 4-2-5 and never a play-off win.  Never a play-off win because teams good enough to make play-offs will destroy a 4-2-5 with their top O Lines and top running backs.  We will watch the other team run the ball up our rear ends all game, which we have seen in many play-off games.  Steelers, Jets, Texans, Chargers. Colts.   If it really was a touch football NFL of all passing I would agree with only needing 2 starting linebackers.  I see an NFL that has brought back tight ends and is bringing back fullbacks and is running the ball.  I see an NFL that tried the no tight end and no fullback all WR formations and saw it doesn't win.  An NFL that has went back to the run game in a huge way and 2 linebackers just won't be enough.  In fact Steelers still play a 3-4. A lot of team use a 3-4 and these teams win. Bengals are the team that has gone 26 years without a play-off win.  

The 4-2 sounds weak to me.  Way too weak.  We do not have the linebackers to play a 4-3 and certainly don't have the linebackers for any 3-4 packages to use now and then.  The 4-2 sounds too Bengals of 26 years with no play-off wins. Steelers are going to have linebackers. Ravens are going to have linebackers. Even Browns are going to try to have linebackers.  All these teams are going to try to run the ball up our rear ends. Seems to me Burfict and Minter are NOT enough. Not in the AFC North.  This years draft is loaded in linebacker talent in first 2 rounds which is rare.  This is the year for Bengals to get a team captain linebacker over the next 10 years and man up with the teams in big boy pants which we have not done in 26 years.  We have Atkins and Dunlap and a good secondary but our linebackers are not that good.  I can see taking a D Lineman in round one if that is best athlete on the board, and at pick 9 there may be a D Lineman that falls due to a team taking a QB, and a top D Lineman falls to us, I can see that.  At least at the top of round 2 dip into this very talented pool of linebackers in this draft. They are there and I'm saying a 4-2 is not enough, not even close to enough to win in the AFC North.  Bill Bergey was a round 2.  There is amazing talent probably at the top of this years round 2.  If not in one, at least in two.  Those wanting all offense, remember fans may like offense, but you win with defense. If the Ohio State LB or JJ Watts talented linebacker brother are there in round 2 with other rare talent LBs, the cupboard is full of LB talent this draft unlike last few years drafts of few top LBs. Our Defense has slipped a little and was not as good last year as it has been.  Lets say we take a D Lineman in one and a LB in two, or vise versa, you add those top picks to Atkins, Dunlap and our secondary and our defense should be back to play-off form with the goal to have a Super Bowl Defense.

You use the Steelers running the ball the entire 4th quarter, as an example, but neglected to point out that in our last meeting, the Bengals' offense got stonewalled the entire 2nd half, which led to the D getting gassed and allowed the Steelers to ram the ball down their throats.  If the offense could have sustained some drives and the D could have caught their breath, things probably would have been different.  This is one of the big reasons people want to fix the offense.  The other is we're sick and tired of the D playing good enough to win in the playoffs while the offense shxts the bed

The reason we play nickel so much is because we have to match up with 3 WR sets.  Offensive personel dictates the defensive personel, and in today's NFL, the #3 WR and CB are effectively starters.

This is why DL and secondary are higher priorities.  You can't scheme DL off the field, and the only time a DB is coming off the field for a LB is against short yardage/goalline sets.

(04-23-2017, 04:46 PM)kevin Wrote: Super Bowl teams seem to prove otherwise. Most Super Bowl winners are rock solid at LB across the board and are not of the opinion it is the least important position on the team. When good teams run the ball right up the Bengals rear end and we can't do one thing to stop it, well, that is our linebackers just not good enough.  The great NFL teams have had great linebackers. There is a monster of a run stopper some say Bengals will draft. Others say no.  I would love to see Bengals be able to stop Steelers RB and all RBs, instead of just getting plowed over by the better teams in NFL.  A defense where we can see good teams on schedule and say we don't care because we have the D to stop them.  That to me means not just getting by at LB or thinking it is not an important position. We have Atkins and Dulap on D Line. We have talent at DB. Our weakness on D is at LB and I sure hope it's not by design thinking teams don't need linebackers. Seems to me the teams that WIN have linebackers.

Can you name a Giants LB from their 2 recent SB teams off the top of your head?
I can't, and I play IDP Fantasy Football and have for 15+ years. The Giants have never really had any good to outstanding LB's (since LT).
But Most of us can tell you at least 1 of their formidable DL players, if not 2.

(04-24-2017, 12:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Burfict has only missed significant time due to injury twice in 5 seasons, played 16 games twice, and only missed 2 games due to injury last year. I think it's a bit soon to start calling him an injury liability. I don't think his weight affected him last year, it was just something for people to complain about during a lost season. Yes Minter was signed to a 1 year deal, but we could (a) resign him next year and if not (b) sign someone else or draft someone then. 

I'm not at all confident in a 4th round pick to eventually become the full-time replacement at MLB. May as well roll with Minter and see what happens. If all else fails, take the position more seriously (than a 4th rounder) next year. Mind you, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a guy in the 4th round, but I just don't see it as a dire need. A 4th round rookie isn't going to be a good substitute for Burfict this year...or anyone else.

I never said you can't rely on him to stay healthy for 16 games or that he was an injury liability, I said you can't rely on him to play 16 games. He is...

1 Concussion away from missing large amounts of time.
1 Dirty hit away from missing large amounts of time on suspension.
1 Offseason of overeating/underworking again away from being ineffective for large amounts of time.

Of course mixed in with the normal NFL player's everyday risk of season ending injury that's unavoidable, but only one of those three things I mentioned is injury-related. Burfict is a great LB, but there's a lot of things to hesitate over. He's also in his contract year, so he'll be a FA next season. Does another team offer him a bajillion dollar contract that the Bengals won't match?

You go into the next offseason with Burfict and Minter both FAs, and you're going to see a repeat of this offseason with Whitworth and Zeitler both leaving. Then the Bengals will be left with a LB group of PJ Dawson, Vincent Rey, and Nick Vigil. No thanks.

I am 100% on board that a 4th round rook isn't going to be a good substitute for Burfict this year, or anyone else. So if you get them this year, it's highly unlikely the Bengals keep both Burfict and Minter. Hopefully the rookie season will give that LB draft pick time to be ready for 2018. Otherwise in the 2018 draft you'll HAVE to take a LB, and you'll have the same rookie problem.

Plus, Minter and Burfict are free agents next year.

With that said...we have much bigger needs than LB.

I think we're going to see a vast improvement with Maualuga gone. He was slow. He wasn't good in coverage. He couldn't rush the passer.

Man...just imagine our defense if we added an OLB that could get get 8 sacks a year.

(04-24-2017, 01:42 PM)BengalD Wrote: I heard about the hospital deal, but didn't know anything about a failed test.  Did he fail a whiz quiz? 

Sample came back as diluted, which is an automatic fail.  He attributed it to being dehydrated, and being given fluids via IV. 

We have a completely different look at LB this year.

Vigil and Minter are way faster than the players they replaced, and are both good in coverage as is Burflict. So unlike prior seasons we actually can cover Tight Ends and Backs now.