(08-02-2015, 07:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In 2009, the Bengals ranked 24th in yards per carry, despite heavy use of an extra tackle. If you want to measure the effectiveness of the run game that year, you use average per carry. Not bulk yardage. We did run it a ton that year (4th most rushing attempts in the NFL). So maybe the ranking of 9th in yardage wasn't so impressive.

As for how great the line is now, it's highly debatable whether or not it's just fantastic coaching by PA. We've had a pair of 1st rounders on the right side, and Whit was a 2nd rounder. This team has always spent good draft picks on linemen and then thrown money at them. How many low round draft picks has PA truly developed? Clint Boling (4th rounder - still a quality pick) is solid playing next to Whit. Anyone else? (Cue Fred bringing up Stacy Andrews' Eagles contract). 

But we have this list created by some guy named John Tuvey who says the line is the best in the NFL without playing a single snap.  PA hasn't developed a single late round pick.  Doesn't the coaching staff scout the position they are coaching in?  So if PA is so great, he would have been able to spot one of these late round picks to develop after 20+ years of coaching.  But he HASN'T.  He relies on first and second round draft picks to save his behind.  I been through 40+ years of Bengal football and PA is the most over rated coach this organization has had!

Paul Alexander only does well when he's given an unbelievable amount of resources. Remember, the man was here for almost the entire decade of the 90's. I'm not how he's given a pass, when literally more than half his career here has featured below average lines.

One might ask, if he were that great a position then why no promotion? Why was he never hired away? Cuz that's what most skill position coaches do, they work up to coordinator positions. And highly doubt he's been paid near the top of his position this entire time. Surely someone could have offered more if he was that good, right?

A guy from Birmingham, Alabama that partial to Cincinnati? Maybe he's just stayed these 20 plus years for all this winning we've had during his tenure? Why is he still here, in the same role, if he's so great?

Maybe because a monkey could do well with the following groups:

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Levi Jones
B Williams
Braham
Steinbach
W Anderson

*Not to mention Reggie Kelly at TE, and Jeremi Johnson, which out of TE/FB blocking skillsets is about as good as you're going to get

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Whitworth
Boling
Bodine
Zeitler
Andre Smith

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The 9 player OL sets we ran in 2009. Didn't we have like 17 tackles in at once?

-----

Outside of these groups, how have we done? Probably not great. So I guess question left is, are there really that few OL coaches that could have success with the above? Cuz I'm guessing there's plenty. And I'm also guessing the reason that Warren (earmuffs) is still here is because no one else wants him.

Shocking lack of OL knowledge there. But cool stuff bro.

Dalton does suck and you can still be a fan even if you call a spade a spade. PA is a good coach, Dalton sucks and I'm still a HUGE Bengals fan. Who-Dey!

(08-02-2015, 11:10 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Shocking lack of OL knowledge there. But cool stuff bro.

Care to elaborate?  My position is that his units generally only do well when he's given an abundance of talent to work with.  Apparently you strongly disagree.  Please, enlighten me.

(08-02-2015, 11:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Care to elaborate?  My position is that his units generally only do well when he's given an abundance of talent to work with.  Apparently you strongly disagree.  Please, enlighten me.

Most units do well with a lot of talent. How many top OL do you know with bargain basement talent? 

What are the best OL in the NFL? How do their pick selections line up? 

For a long time Alexander wasn't given top picks, he was given scraps.
When Levi got hurt, Steinbach left, Braham retired, Willie left.....

We had 2nd round Whitworth and aging Bobbie Williams....
He's had to build a whole new OL.
That isn't easy to do.

(08-02-2015, 08:32 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote:   PA hasn't developed a single late round pick. 

Unlike most other O-line coaches PA has never had a high round pick that was a complete flop.

He developed Nate Livings from an undrafted free agent to a player who got  $22 million contract.

He developed Stacy Andrews from a guy who did not even play football in college to a guy who got a $40 million free agent contract.

He developed undrafted Kyle Cook into a very good center.

He developed 4th round pick Anthony Collins into a guy who got a $30 million ree agent contract.

He developed Clint Boling froma 4th round pick to a guy who got a $26 million contract.

Rich Braham was cut by the Cardinals before Alexander developed him into a very good center.

(08-02-2015, 11:08 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: One might ask, if he were that great a position then why no promotion?  Why was he never hired away?  Cuz that's what most skill position coaches do, they work up to coordinator positions.  And highly doubt he's been paid near the top of his position this entire time.  Surely someone could have offered more if he was that good, right?

The Patriots had the same O-line coach, Dante Scarnecchia, for 22 years ('91-'13)

Monte Kiffin was DC in Tampa for 15 years.

Both of these guys were highly regarded coaches for good teams.

(08-02-2015, 11:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Patriots had the same O-line coach, Dante Scarnecchia, for 22 years ('91-'13)

Monte Kiffin was DC in Tampa for 15 years.

Both of these guys were highly regarded coaches for good teams.

Some people know their limits.
They don't have the passion for all the stuff a OC or HC has to do.

I know I wouldn't. 

(08-02-2015, 11:18 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Care to elaborate?  My position is that his units generally only do well when he's given an abundance of talent to work with.  Apparently you strongly disagree.  Please, enlighten me.

That is pretty much the way it works for all O-line coaches.

Since we took Whitworth in the 2nd round of the '06 draft there have been 64 OT taken in the first 2 rounds (36 in first, 28 in second) not including the '15 draft.

If all it takes is drafting guy high then why doesn't every single team in the league have a pair of tackles as good as the Bengals?  The fact is that a lot of these guys have not developed into good NFL players.  Many of them were busts.

In the 12 years from 1990 to 2001 the Bengals used a grand total of ONE draft pick in the first two rounds on an offensive lineman. That is a big reason Paul didn't have a lot of success early in his tenure as the Bengals O-line coach.

(08-02-2015, 09:54 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I'm pretty high on Bodine.  I thought he did pretty well at the point of attack and most of his struggles were from inexperience, not a lack of strength and grit.  I'm hoping he makes big strides this year. 

No doubt he will be a much better player with another offseason and training camp under his belt.

(08-02-2015, 08:24 PM)Bronxbengal Wrote: I didn't know there was such a thing called a "coaching industry".  Does it contribute to the gross domestic product or is it something women put their lipstick and mascara in?

What he was referring to was the fact that there are O-line coaching clinics held in the offseason, and Alexander is often ask to be a presenter at these clinics.  He is well respected by his peers.

Anyone who lives near Cincy should register for the Mushroom socoety clinic and see how much respect Alexander gets from everyone whether he speaks or just clinics in the lounge with a group.

If you actually think he is not a great OL coach.

Here is the clinic website.  

http://www.thecoolclinic.com

Whether he speaks or not,  Alexander is there every year .

http://www.thecoolclinic.com/2015_DVD_form.pdf

That's the Video order form with this you can see how often he speaks.

(08-03-2015, 12:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What he was referring to was the fact that there are O-line coaching clinics held in the offseason, and Alexander is often ask to be a presenter at these clinics.  He is well respected by his peers.

They just wanna bash him because they heard some nob on talk radio mock the bengals OL.

Guys a heck of a coach and will spend forever with you to go over anything. A true pro.

(08-03-2015, 12:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In the 12 years from 1990 to 2001 the Bengals used a grand total of ONE draft pick in the first two rounds on an offensive lineman.  That is a big reason Paul didn't have a lot of success early in his tenure as the Bengals O-line coach.

.....how many first rounders was Scarnecchia working with up in NE during those Super Bowl runs?  Just curious....

(08-03-2015, 03:19 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Here is the clinic website.  

http://www.thecoolclinic.com

Whether he speaks or not,  Alexander is there every year .

http://www.thecoolclinic.com/2015_DVD_form.pdf

That's the Video order form with this you can see how often he speaks.

Of course he's there every year, it's in Cincinnati!  On the old site, I posted up all of the coaches from around the country who were brought in over the years.....Alexander is there out of convenience.  

(08-02-2015, 07:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: In 2009, the Bengals ranked 24th in yards per carry, despite heavy use of an extra tackle. If you want to measure the effectiveness of the run game that year, you use average per carry. Not bulk yardage. We did run it a ton that year (4th most rushing attempts in the NFL). So maybe the ranking of 9th in yardage wasn't so impressive.

As for how great the line is now, it's highly debatable whether or not it's just fantastic coaching by PA. We've had a pair of 1st rounders on the right side, and Whit was a 2nd rounder. This team has always spent good draft picks on linemen and then thrown money at them. How many low round draft picks has PA truly developed? Clint Boling (4th rounder - still a quality pick) is solid playing next to Whit. Anyone else? (Cue Fred bringing up Stacy Andrews' Eagles contract). 

.....pretty much.  I think we could do better......