(08-03-2015, 10:57 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....how many first rounders was Scarnecchia working with up in NE during those Super Bowl runs?  Just curious....

If he was so great then why was he never promoted?

Since 1999 when he became O-line coach

OC Damien Woody...1st round
OG Adrian Klemm.....2nd round
OT Matt Light...........2nd round
OG Logan Mankins.....1st round
OT Sebastian Volmer..2nd round
OT Nate Solder..........1st round

Looks like he had just as many high picks as Paul Alexander

(08-01-2015, 01:43 PM)CharvelPlaya Wrote: People who trash on him are mind boggling to me. He is one of the best.

Agreed.

I think the problem lies with the center. Which I don't blame him for entirely. For most of the years during his tenure, we've had dependable tackles and very solid guards. But the center position hasn't been that great. I think that comes more from not drafting guys who are good. Occasionally we or bring in a FA who is passable, but we don't look at the position with any long-term planning. It's like how we addressed safety for a number of years — patch it up and hope nobody notices.

(08-01-2015, 06:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why are you whispering?

BTW, PA is a good coach, just made a couple bonehead personnel decisions. Livings over Mathis, Andrews over Willie.

I don't think that's him. We make very similar boneheaded personnel decisions at other positions. I think that comes down to Marvin's preferences. And, as much as I always bash Marvin, he's not always off. Andrews over Willie was the right decision at the time, Willie was on the downhill and we needed to start finding a replacement.

People need to realize that just because a coach has first and second round picks doesn't mean that those guys will automatically pan out. Sure, you can name off Willie Anderson, Levi Jones, Whitworth, Andre, Steinbach etc., but who do you think picks those guys? I'm pretty sure that a majority of the opinion on them will come from Alexander.

Even if you are going to say that he doesn't really need to "coach" those high picks (which I think is BS), you still have to hand it to him for taking guys that develop into Pro-Bowl caliber players.

(08-03-2015, 11:36 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Even if you are going to say that he doesn't really need to "coach" those high picks (which I think is BS), you still have to hand it to him for taking guys that develop into Pro-Bowl caliber players.

There have been lots of first and second round picks that have flopped.

Just looking at OTs taken since we selected Dre Smith in '09 there have been Gabe Carimi (1st round), Derek Sherrod (1st), Ben Ijalana (2nd), Vlad Ducassa (2nd), Charles Brown (2nd), Jason Smith (1st), Eben Britton (2nd).  Eugene Monroe has been a starter every year, but he is also considered a bust for a first round pick.  The Jaguars traded him to the Ravens for a fourth round pick.

(08-02-2015, 11:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Unlike most other O-line coaches PA has never had a high round pick that was a complete flop.

He developed Nate Livings from an undrafted free agent to a player who got  $22 million contract.

He developed Stacy Andrews from a guy who did not even play football in college to a guy who got a $40 million free agent contract.

He developed undrafted Kyle Cook into a very good center.

He developed 4th round pick Anthony Collins into a guy who got a $30 million ree agent contract.

He developed Clint Boling froma 4th round pick to a guy who got a $26 million contract.

Rich Braham was cut by the Cardinals before Alexander developed him into a very good center.

Stacy Andrews, whose name you love to bring up, did nothing for the Eagles, was trade to the Seahawks and then released by them, signed then released by the Giants.

This begs the question was he any good or was the big contract just a bad move by the Eagles.  Bottom line, he is not that much of an endorsement of PA's prowess.

As for Nate Livings, he played one disappointing season for the Cowboys and was released.  Again, looks more like bad Cowboy decision than anything else.

Would either of those two teams sign those guys if they could go back and do it over again?

When you bring these guys up again, it'll be interesting to see if you tell the whole story.

Honestly, I don't know how good he is.  There are reasons to think he's good but there are things that can be pointed to that suggest he might not be so good.

It's probably the same for any coach that the better your players are, the better you look.

(08-01-2015, 12:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals ranked as the number one O-line in the league

http://www.thehuddle.com/2015/articles/offensive-line-review-and-ratings.php

bengals have a bunch of good coaches and players..its all insignificant until they actually start winning playoff games Fred

(08-03-2015, 12:16 PM)xavierdude Wrote: bengals have a bunch of good coaches and players..its all insignificant until they actually start winning playoff games Fred

Winning playoff Games and the SB is the icing on the cake.

Being a competitive football team year in and out is very significant no matter what you say.

(08-03-2015, 12:12 PM)McC Wrote: Stacy Andrews, whose name you love to bring up, did nothing for the Eagles, was trade to the Seahawks and then released by them, signed then released by the Giants.

This begs the question was he any good or was the big contract just a bad move by the Eagles.  Bottom line, he is not that much of an endorsement of PA's prowess.

As for Nate Livings, he played one disappointing season for the Cowboys and was released.  Again, looks more like bad Cowboy decision than anything else.

Would either of those two teams sign those guys if they could go back and do it over again?

When you bring these guys up again, it'll be interesting to see if you tell the whole story.

The fact that other teams could not get the same level of play from these guys is more proof that PA is a good coach.

(08-03-2015, 12:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Winning playoff Games and the SB is the icing on the cake.

Being a competitive football team year in and out is very significant no matter what you say.

i respectfully disagree..most sundays in the nfl are competitive.. accepting a "competitive team" is just making an excuse..some of us would like to see wins in the playoffs.

I would imagine Robert Kraft of the New England Patriots would have fired Marvin and his staff 6 years ago.

But then we get to that other excuse..that being that Bengals are so much better than they were ten years ago 

(08-03-2015, 11:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If he was so great then why was he never promoted?

Since 1999 when he became O-line coach

OC Damien Woody...1st round
OG Adrian Klemm.....2nd round
OT Matt Light...........2nd round
OG Logan Mankins.....1st round
OT Sebastian Volmer..2nd round
OT Nate Solder..........1st round

Looks like he had just as many high picks as Paul Alexander

Then he's probably just as overrated as PA.....hence the reason for the lack of promotion....

(08-03-2015, 12:16 PM)xavierdude Wrote: bengals have a bunch of good coaches and players..its all insignificant until they actually start winning playoff games Fred

I admit that we need to improve, but consistently winning more games than most other teams in the league is far from "insignificant".

(08-03-2015, 12:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact that other teams could not get the same level of play from these guys is more proof that PA is a good coach.

Paul Alexander is a good coach..not the problem with the bengals

(08-03-2015, 12:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact that other teams could not get the same level of play from these guys is more proof that PA is a good coach.

First of all, how high was their level of play?   Second, maybe it just means the signing teams made a big mistake and nothing more.  A couple teams after the Eagles got nothing out of Andrews either.

(08-03-2015, 12:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Then he's probably just as overrated as PA.....hence the reason for the lack of promotion....

Yeah, Patriots are so stupid.  They have no idea how to run a football team.

Has it ever occured to you that some coaches are very good at what they do, but still do not need to be promoted. Guys like Dick Lebeau and Buddy Ryan were the best at what they did when they were DCs, but they sucked as head coaches. The fact that Monte Kiffin was never a head coach does not mean he was a bad DC.

PA is a good O-line coach, the fact that he has never been promoted does not change that.

(08-03-2015, 12:31 PM)Wyche Wrote: Then he's probably just as overrated as PA.....hence the reason for the lack of promotion....

Just stop...please

(08-03-2015, 12:33 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Just stop...please

Nope....there's just as much evidence he is a turd as there is that he is good......aside from that, the guy coached on Dave Shula's staff, and was a part of one of the worst decades in ALL of professional sports.  That alone would be reason to move on for most organizations......

(08-03-2015, 12:32 PM)xavierdude Wrote: Paul Alexander is a good coach..not the problem with the bengals

(08-03-2015, 12:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What is with the proliferation of trolls over the last few days?

Anyone else notice all the new guys showing up and making ridiculous posts like this?

Yeah.....for reals.....

(08-03-2015, 12:36 PM)Wyche Wrote: Nope....there's just as much evidence he is a turd as there is that he is good......aside from that, the guy coached on Dave Shula's staff, and was a part of one of the worst decades in ALL of professional sports.  That alone would be reason to move on for most organizations......

Okay, feel free to look like the idiot who called one of the most universally respected and honored OL coaches "overrated" 

*hint* Scarnecchia coached things other than OL for awhile too but don't let that ruin your narrative. 

(08-03-2015, 12:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, Patriots are so stupid.  They have no idea how to run a football team.

Has it ever occured to you that some coaches are very good at what they do, but still do not need to be promoted.  Guys like Dick Lebeau and Buddy Ryan were the best at what they did when they were DCs, but they sucked as head coaches.  The fact that Monte Kiffin was never a head coach does not mean he was a bad DC.

PA is a good O-line coach, the fact that he has never been promoted does not change that.

The Patriots weren't very good at all for many years until that Parcells guy, and then his protege, showed up in Foxboro.....

I showed you a gradual progression for most of those guys, sans Buddy Ryan, on the old board....including Kiffin (who HAS been a HC at the Div I collegiate level), vs the stagnant career of Mozart, Jr.  I'm not going to bother again.....