I agree with the post overall SHRacerX. I feel like the kicking game improving (not a guarantee, but we're all optimistic about this), should give us a win or two more than last year. But I'm not going to say anything until I see how the offensive line performs. This point goes in general, but is especially true of the Oline: Injuries will decide the season. An injury at a key spot say, Andre at right guard or Ogbuehi at LT (as bad as he played last year), would put us in a tailspin I believe. I know you've said that they're high on Redmond and maybe Westerman, but until those guys get their feet wet and show us they can handle it, I would say that Andre and Ogbuehi need to stay healthy and ball out for us to have a good season. Same goes for key players like Geno, and Burfict and A.J. Green. Maybe we've built up some depth in the DLine and WR corps, but it's still just on paper. But having said all that, I appreciate the enthusiasm of this post. If we stay fairly healthy this year, I don't see why we won't make the playoffs.

Great post by OP and I hope he is right.

The offensive line lost its two best players and we're counting on a bunch of 4th Rd picks to solve our pass rush problem. If this team maintained the O line I would be more optimistic but we didn't and it's going to cost us big time.

(05-02-2017, 01:34 PM)3wt Wrote: I was disappointed they tried going with a fullbck so seldom.  I think Mixon will allow that more as he is a full service back and the presence of Hewitt culd be as a TE or a fullback.  Zampeze has a lot to work with this year. If we still had Whit I'd be very optimistic.

As I understand it, Hewitt was playing with a significant injury last year so I would imagine that had something to do with the lack of snaps with a FB.  

(05-02-2017, 06:38 PM)J24 Wrote: The offensive line lost its two best players and we're counting on a bunch of 4th Rd picks to solve our pass rush problem. If this team maintained the O line I would be more optimistic but we didn't and it's going to cost us big time.

This is a common narrative from the media within the city and outside as well.  It is easy to believe that.  Whit was a legend, and his play had not substantially declined.  However, he turns 36 during the season this year and we know the decline is coming.  I am not going to try and pretend that I didn't want him back or the Bengals didn't want him, but when you invest a 1st round pick in the position, at some point you have to get him on the field.  He clearly wasn't a RT and he was injured during the season last year.  The Bengals said that if Ced was in this year's draft class, at his current health, he would have been the consensus first offensive lineman taken in the draft.  That sounds like they believe he can do the job.

As far as the other lineman being one of the two best player, Zeitler graded out just slightly higher than Boling, who played with a substantial injury all season.  Zeitler is an above-average pass blocker and average run blocker.  You simply can't pay a player like that $12 million a year.  The Bengals are VERY high on Alex Redmond out of UCLA.  They couldn't say enough positive things about him and how he has taken to their strength training program.  They also really like Westerman and feel that the competition between the two of them will yield a suitable replacement for Zeitler.  They may actually be better in the running game with one of those two in there.  

Fisher was solid when he finally got settled in on one position at RT.  Smith will provide quality depth at RT and could start there if an injury forced Fisher to the left side. 

Additionally, not always playing from behind, having more versatile weapons at RB, and a healthy TE corps can all contribute to more success from the offensive line.  The deck was largely stacked against them last year.  

Oh lord, this is the time of the year when people start drinking the kool aid again, right?

I think the Bengals will be better than last year, but I still don't think they are a playoff team. Im not sold on their secondary, linebackers, or offensive line.

You mention the pass rush as being upgraded...but based on what? Some rookies that we drafted this year and a guy coming off injury that has never played a snap in the NFL? I remember everyone thought the same thing when we drafted Devon Still in the second round and he turned out to suck. To assume these guys are going to be good is lazy.

Like I said, I think the Bengals will be better than last year but im not sure they will be "good". They still have a ton of holes that a rookie running back, a speedy rookie receiver, and a bunch of rookie pass rushers aren't going to necessarily fix.

There are too many unknowns on this team to sit here and say they are going to be leaps and bounds better than last year.

(05-02-2017, 06:38 PM)J24 Wrote: The offensive line lost its two best players and we're counting on a bunch of 4th Rd picks to solve our pass rush problem. If this team maintained the O line I would be more optimistic but we didn't and it's going to cost us big time.

Exactly this. 

Too many people on here are assuming the guys we drafted this year and last year that havent played an NFL snap are going to come in and light it up. It just doesn't work that way and its lazy to assume it does. 

Until I see drastic improvement from Ogbuehi and Fisher, I'm going to stick with 8-8. Best case scenario 9-7.

(05-03-2017, 09:54 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Oh lord, this is the time of the year when people start drinking the kool aid again, right?

I think the Bengals will be better than last year, but I still don't think they are a playoff team. Im not sold on their secondary, linebackers, or offensive line.

You mention the pass rush as being upgraded...but based on what? Some rookies that we drafted this year and a guy coming off injury that has never played a snap in the NFL? I remember everyone thought the same thing when we drafted Devon Still in the second round and he turned out to suck. To assume these guys are going to be good is lazy.

Like I said, I think the Bengals will be better than last year but im not sure they will be "good". They still have a ton of holes that a rookie running back, a speedy rookie receiver, and a bunch of rookie pass rushers aren't going to necessarily fix.

There are too many unknowns on this team to sit here and say they are going to be leaps and bounds better than last year.

Fair enough.  You have your opinion and I have mine....Call it Kool-aid if you will.

As far as rookies contributing as pass rushers, that is one of the great things about this draft and the team's situation.  They will be cutting their teeth as situational pass rushers.  They (Willis, Lawson) will provide some serious speed off the edge and allow for a true rotation of the lines.  Comparing them to Devon Still isn't an apples-to-apples comparison because it generally takes a DT much longer to acclimate to the NFL.  He also wasn't known for his pass-rushing ability as much as just being a solid defender.  The Bengals will also have last year's pick (still a rookie by experience), Andrew Billings to help occupy double-teams and free up his line mates.  Hardison hasn't played much in two years, but he is thought to be a situational pass rusher from inside in rotation for Billings or Geno.  

These are all additions.  They only lost Peko and Margus Hunt.  Dunlap, Geno, Dingleberry,, and MJ are all still here.  They will be better when used in a rotation as well.  

The other biggest reason they would be significantly better is having a healthy squad.  Sure, that is an unknown, but last year's M*A*S*H unit at TE, RB,  and WR was an anomaly.

(05-03-2017, 10:22 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Fair enough.  You have your opinion and I have mine....Call it Kool-aid if you will.

As far as rookies contributing as pass rushers, that is one of the great things about this draft and the team's situation.  They will be cutting their teeth as situational pass rushers.  They (Willis, Lawson) will provide some serious speed off the edge and allow for a true rotation of the lines.  Comparing them to Devon Still isn't an apples-to-apples comparison because it generally takes a DT much longer to acclimate to the NFL.  He also wasn't known for his pass-rushing ability as much as just being a solid defender.  The Bengals will also have last year's pick (still a rookie by experience), Andrew Billings to help occupy double-teams and free up his line mates.  Hardison hasn't played much in two years, but he is thought to be a situational pass rusher from inside in rotation for Billings or Geno.  

These are all additions.  They only lost Peko and Margus Hunt.  Dunlap, Geno, Dingleberry,, and MJ are all still here.  They will be better when used in a rotation as well.  

The other biggest reason they would be significantly better is having a healthy squad.  Sure, that is an unknown, but last year's M*A*S*H unit at TE, RB,  and WR was an anomaly.

I hope you're right and im wrong, but im a wait and see kind of guy. After years of being disappointed by this team surely you understand why that would be the case. 

(05-03-2017, 10:17 AM)Big Boss Wrote: Until I see drastic improvement from Ogbuehi and Fisher, I'm going to stick with 8-8.  Best case scenario 9-7.

That's fine.  But I would offer that last year's team wins 8 games if they can hit some extra points and FGs from that distance.  

This year, they add:


John Ross
Joe Mixon
Jordan Willis
Carl Lawson


A kicker that should be a significant improvement


Plus, they will have back and healthy:

WJIII
Billings
Eifert
Uzomah
Kroft
Hewitt
Gio
AJ Green
Hardison
Boling

I see all that as reason for optimism over a team that finished 6-9-1 with some serious rectal exams by the schedule makers.  

(05-03-2017, 10:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I hope you're right and im wrong, but im a wait and see kind of guy. After years of being disappointed by this team surely you understand why that would be the case. 

Of course I do, but I am just trying to provide rational explanations why you are so wrong.






Seriously, just hoping to spread some optimism.  I am very excited.

(05-02-2017, 06:38 PM)J24 Wrote: The offensive line lost its two best players and we're counting on a bunch of 4th Rd picks to solve our pass rush problem. If this team maintained the O line I would be more optimistic but we didn't and it's going to cost us big time.

Geno Atkins was a 4th round pick too. He's pretty good.

Your schedule looks good too. I think the Bengals are set for a run at the playoffs again.

(05-03-2017, 09:41 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: As I understand it, Hewitt was playing with a significant injury last year so I would imagine that had something to do with the lack of snaps with a FB.  

I had no idea of the injury. 

And of course now I'm concerned that the influx of new talent and our commitment to the spread offense will make Hewitt expendable in their eyes.   I truly hope not.  I'd get rid of any TE not named Eifert before I got rid of Hewitt.  I also hope the injury is not a lingering one.

Hewitt is one of those players that make up the rosters of playoff teams - physically and mentally tough, and can be used in a variety of ways.

I'm really big on having a variety of lineups that can be used in a no huddle format, that keeps the other team from subbing and allows the offense the greatest flexibility.   Hewitt fits into that type of lineup.

That's really a good prediction, even at 12-4, the question is can we win a playoff game ?

(05-03-2017, 09:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is a common narrative from the media within the city and outside as well.  It is easy to believe that.  Whit was a legend, and his play had not substantially declined.  However, he turns 36 during the season this year and we know the decline is coming.  I am not going to try and pretend that I didn't want him back or the Bengals didn't want him, but when you invest a 1st round pick in the position, at some point you have to get him on the field.  He clearly wasn't a RT and he was injured during the season last year.  The Bengals said that if Ced was in this year's draft class, at his current health, he would have been the consensus first offensive lineman taken in the draft.  That sounds like they believe he can do the job.

As far as the other lineman being one of the two best player, Zeitler graded out just slightly higher than Boling, who played with a substantial injury all season.  Zeitler is an above-average pass blocker and average run blocker.  You simply can't pay a player like that $12 million a year.  The Bengals are VERY high on Alex Redmond out of UCLA.  They couldn't say enough positive things about him and how he has taken to their strength training program.  They also really like Westerman and feel that the competition between the two of them will yield a suitable replacement for Zeitler.  They may actually be better in the running game with one of those two in there.  

Fisher was solid when he finally got settled in on one position at RT.  Smith will provide quality depth at RT and could start there if an injury forced Fisher to the left side. 

Additionally, not always playing from behind, having more versatile weapons at RB, and a healthy TE corps can all contribute to more success from the offensive line.  The deck was largely stacked against them last year.  

No question not paying them was the right call...but the problem remains that we lost our 2 best lineman and their replacements aren't as good. Maybe the replacements will be better in a certain aspect...like run blocking...but overall the line is worse.

(05-03-2017, 09:52 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is a common narrative from the media within the city and outside as well.  It is easy to believe that.  Whit was a legend, and his play had not substantially declined.  However, he turns 36 during the season this year and we know the decline is coming.  I am not going to try and pretend that I didn't want him back or the Bengals didn't want him, but when you invest a 1st round pick in the position, at some point you have to get him on the field.  He clearly wasn't a RT and he was injured during the season last year.  The Bengals said that if Ced was in this year's draft class, at his current health, he would have been the consensus first offensive lineman taken in the draft.  That sounds like they believe he can do the job.

As far as the other lineman being one of the two best player, Zeitler graded out just slightly higher than Boling, who played with a substantial injury all season.  Zeitler is an above-average pass blocker and average run blocker.  You simply can't pay a player like that $12 million a year.  The Bengals are VERY high on Alex Redmond out of UCLA.  They couldn't say enough positive things about him and how he has taken to their strength training program.  They also really like Westerman and feel that the competition between the two of them will yield a suitable replacement for Zeitler.  They may actually be better in the running game with one of those two in there.  

Fisher was solid when he finally got settled in on one position at RT.  Smith will provide quality depth at RT and could start there if an injury forced Fisher to the left side. 

Additionally, not always playing from behind, having more versatile weapons at RB, and a healthy TE corps can all contribute to more success from the offensive line.  The deck was largely stacked against them last year.  

Last year all we heard about Ced was he was a perfect fit for RT and now since he was a complete failure last year there changing their tune and saying he is a LT. Sorry not buying it if they truly felt that way they would not have kept him there that long. Secondly all the had to do was franchise Whitworth and work out a two year deal in the offseason. It was an easy deal for them. Thirddly Zeitler was rated a top 25 offensive lineman last year and has been very good for us. I get not signing him to that type of contract but relying on a 5th Rd pick( although to Thier credit it did work out with Iloka a safety) and an undrafted player seems risky. As far as playing with a lead will be better sure but they have to get the lead first.

Quote:To assume these guys are going to be good is lazy. 

The very same thing can be said about predictions about guys being horrible. There's never really any shortage of people rooting for their least favorite players to fail or people who think they know much more than any of the coaching staff. 
Personally I have no idea how this season will turn out for any player. 
You know it doesn't take every single player to have a HOF season to be successful. If most of the players have an above average season we may just see a great season overall and its not unheard of to see someone who has struggled mightily turn around and have an outstanding season. If it weren't for that one simple fact nobody would ever feel optimistic about any season.  

Quote:The offensive line lost its two best players and we're counting on a bunch of 4th Rd picks to solve our pass rush problem. If this team maintained the O line I would be more optimistic but we didn't and it's going to cost us big time.

It doesn't matter what round players come from or if they were even drafted. If it were only a matter of which round or which position of the round. If that was the case Cleveland would have won the super bowl for the past 15 years. It's actually quite rare for first round picks to carry entire teams and who wants that scenario anyway? Every season, not counting comp picks and UDFAs 224 players get picked. Only 32 are in the first round and of those several never see the field.. 
Bottom line, don't get hung up on which round players come from..