(05-06-2017, 09:20 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: It's a shame we have to ask this question but we do. Think about it, if we were most ANY other team would we have to ask? We shouldn't have to ask here either, but the question makes all the sense in the world, unfortunately.

Actually the question does not make thsat much sense.  Marvin pretty much plays young players as muchg as the toher good teams in the league.

Here is an interesting number. According to profootballreference over the last ten years there have been 227 different rookies who started at least 14 games. Since there are 32 teams that is an average of 7.1 per team. Over the last ten years the Bengals have 7 different rookies who have started at least 14 games. 

When we expand it beyond just rookie seasons it does not change very much. Looking at the first three seasons of every player's career over the last 10 years there were 785 who had at least one season with at least 14 starts in his first three years. That is an average of 24.5 per team, and the Bengals have had 24. 

233 players had two seasons with at least 14 starts in their first 3 years. That is an average of 7.6 per team and the Bengals have had 7.

Only 80 players started at least 14 games in each of their first three seasons. That is an average of 2.5 per team and the Bengals have had 3.


So Marvin plays the young guys just as miuch as the average NFL coach.

(05-07-2017, 05:07 AM)Joelist Wrote:  Also our usual nonsense of our first and second rounders riding the pine because of some mythological notion about the need to practice well is not going to fly. you draft in these rounds for starters not backups. 

This is another message board myth.  Here care the number of players (out of 64) taken in the first two rounds that started more than half the games as rookies.

2016......33
2015......34
2014......28
2013......30

So only about half of first and second round picks start even half of the games as rookies.  And generally the worse a team is the more likely they are to play rookies.  The Bengals have been a playoff team for several years, so they have not needed as many rookies to play immediately.

(05-06-2017, 10:44 PM)jeremydc Wrote: Nothing in our recent past shows that we will use ROSS/MIXON 'plenty'

Unless there is an injury and/or Gio isn't ready to go, expect to see them around 20-30% of the snaps

Looking over our past drafts I think every offensive pick this decade contributed immediately if not started aside from the the offensive tackles who injured and purposely held back.  Skill positions all played.

(05-06-2017, 11:46 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: He's recovering from shoulder surgery.

"On February 10, 2017, it was revealed that Ross was diagnosed with a torn labrum in his shoulder. He injured his shoulder earlier during the 2016 season, and re-aggravated it on December 31 in a loss against Alabama. The injury required surgery, but Ross decided to put it on hold until after the NFL Scouting Combine and pro day workouts" - from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross_(American_football)

Ross will participate in training camp. He can't participate in the spring drills or OTA's because he hasn't graduated from college. Has nothing to do with injury....

(05-06-2017, 06:54 PM)Joelist Wrote: I think we all agree that our offense got a big infusion of speed in the draft. However, as always with Marvin you wind up wondering if we'll actually see that speed put out on the field and used right away.

For instance, will we put Ross out there right away and draw up plays where he can use his speed to burn a defense? Or will we see LaFell out there as the coaches claim Ross needs to "absorb the entire offense"?

And will we see Mixon out there and running plays designed to let him burn the defense with his jets? Or are we going to see Hill out there running for 2 and a cloud of dust while we get claims from the coaches that he needs to show in practice he knows the offense?

If they cant do it in practice they wont be starting...  Mixon you need him to show Pass Pro as well as offensive ability.

Ross  If healthy will get snaps game 1 maybe not be the starter or play the majority but get him mixed in to throw defenses off..  WHILE hes building timing with Dalton in practice.

A Big thing is timing  Ross cant practice right now so Dalton and him cant work together yet

I'm expecting Mixon to be used the most this season from an offensive perspective. I think this because he's not recovering from injury, there's more opportunity at the RB position compared to WR or TE, Bernard is recovering from his own injury, and we've seen 2nd rounders typically play more out of the gate than their 1st round counterparts in recent years.

Ross will more than likely play a little like Chris Henry's role in 2005. I believe Hill gets the start early in the season, but if he continues to play like he has the past 2 years, then I see Mixon taking over early on. Willis will be as nickel rusher, Lawson will probably get some rotational snaps. Glasgow will probably provide some relief to Billings. I see Malone focused mainly on ST for most of the season. Elliott will be the kicker unless he melts down in camp. The rest will be inactive or on the PS barring major injuries.

I look for Ross to be used in a similar manner to how the Chiefs used Tyreeke Hill. Hill had too much speed for defenses to stop.

I'm just hoping all of our players make it through TC and preseason without the injury curse that always seems to strike us.

Ross wil definitely see some snaps, but he may not be a huge impact his rookie season. Some fans complain a lot about our recent first round CBs not playing a lot early in their careers, but in addition to some injury problems these guys also had a lot of talent playing in front of them.

I hope Ross has a huge rookie season, but when you look at our returning WRs it would not be surprising to see him only in certain limited packages. Boyd and LaFell are both solid NFL WRs.

Mixon will probably lead the team in carries. I think Gio will start the season on PUP. Bernard actually had more touches than our #1 RB (BJGE) his rookie season.

(05-07-2017, 05:07 AM)Joelist Wrote: The problem is that if Ross and Mixon are not on the field then the speed they bring does not matter. Also our usual nonsense of our first and second rounders riding the pine because of some mythological notion about the need to practice well is not going to fly. you draft in these rounds for starters not backups. 

By the way all the reports on Ross say he is guaranteed ready for the season so the injury is not an excuse.

Ok.lets try to put some fact behind the statement

2016- 1st rounder-  Jackson hurt out for the year, so can't judge
           2nd rounder-  Boyd- saw plenty of playing time

2015-  1st rounder- Cedric- hurt but played end of year some then last year saw a lot but struggled and people complained he played too much... 2nd round- Fisher- saw some playing time 1st year, and started later in year 2nd year. 

2014-  1st rounder- Dennard- i believe was hurt most of rookie year but was stuck behind the starters
           2nd rounder-  Hill-  great rookie year
2013- 1st- Eifert- played as much as he could with injuries
          2nd - Gio-  played plenty
2012- 1st- Dre- did not start and was hurt most of year i believe
          2nd- Zeitler- started all year
2011-  AJ and Dalton- enough said

So please tell me where as a whole  the Bengals have been sitting their 1/2 picks over the last six years.. Now we might not agree with some of the picks and how they have turned out but to say they just ride the wood is just not really backed up with facts.

(05-08-2017, 07:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ok.lets try to put some fact behind the statement

2016- 1st rounder-  Jackson hurt out for the year, so can't judge
           2nd rounder-  Boyd- saw plenty of playing time

2015-  1st rounder- Cedric- hurt but played end of year some then last year saw a lot but struggled and people complained he played too much... 2nd round- Fisher- saw some playing time 1st year, and started later in year 2nd year. 

2014-  1st rounder- Dennard- i believe was hurt most of rookie year but was stuck behind the starters
           2nd rounder-  Hill-  great rookie year
2013- 1st- Eifert- played as much as he could with injuries
          2nd - Gio-  played plenty
2012- 1st- Dre- did not start and was hurt most of year i believe
          2nd- Zeitler- started all year
2011-  AJ and Dalton- enough said

So please tell me where as a whole  the Bengals have been sitting their 1/2 picks over the last six years.. Now we might not agree with some of the picks and how they have turned out but to say they just ride the wood is just not really backed up with facts.

I don't think we sit the picks, but I think we could do better at getting them some playing time.

(05-06-2017, 09:41 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Marvin has publicly said more than once that a player's game time depends on how well he practices. I'd be surprised if that changes.

Can you imagine the uproar on these boards? If:
* Ogeebogee is a flop
* Fisher is still not ready
* Bodine is Bodine
* Rookies ride the bench for first half of 2017
WOW!

(05-08-2017, 10:37 PM)Derrick Wrote: Can you imagine the uproar on these boards? If:
* Ogeebogee is a flop
* Fisher is still not ready
* Bodine is Bodine
* Rookies ride the bench for first half of 2017
WOW!

Can you imagine the Crow eating if

Cedric is a hit
Fisher is steady and ready
Bodine bulls them over
Rookies ride us to a playoff win..

WHO DEY 

Quote:By the way all the reports on Ross say he is guaranteed ready for the season so the injury is not an excuse.

Wait, exactly what guarantee are we talking about? Iron clad, or your money back, in writing, better homes and gardens stamp of approval, consumer reports, better business bureau?  There is no such thing as any player guaranteed to be injury free at any time. Hell, any player can get injured just taking a shower much less playing football.  If someone is telling you that anyone is guaranteed to be 100% injury free by any specific time you can pretty much be guaranteed they're full of shit..

(05-08-2017, 10:37 PM)Derrick Wrote: Can you imagine the uproar on these boards? If:
* Ogeebogee is a flop
* Fisher is still not ready
* Bodine is Bodine
* Rookies ride the bench for first half of 2017
WOW!

I can imagine the uproar and outrage if the Bengals win the super bowl and somebody's favorite player isn't involved. People seem to have this nifty little way of finding outrage in every possible scenario.. Win, lose or draw.. 

(05-09-2017, 12:47 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Can you imagine the Crow eating if

Cedric is a hit
Fisher is steady and ready
Bodine bulls them over
Rookies ride us to a playoff win..

WHO DEY 

Haters never eat crow.  If we are succesful this season they will just whine about how long it took.  

(05-09-2017, 09:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Haters never eat crow.  If we are succesful this season they will just whine about how long it took.  

And that would be warranted. Mikes next playoff win, like mine, would be our first. Most of the griping around here centers around that. People may overly ***** about some mundane topics or a perceived failure rate about one thing or another, but the core gripe remains, and will remain, until they have MULTIPLE playoff successes.




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(05-09-2017, 09:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Haters never eat crow.  If we are succesful this season they will just whine about how long it took.  

It is when people have used "Absolute" terms to describe the future that they will deserve to eat Crow if the Bengals do win in the Playoffs.

For example; People will say "No way" Mike and Marvin can win a Playoff game.  -or-

As long as Marvin is here we will "Never" win a Playoff game.  -or-

The past 26 years are proof that Mike and Marvin are "incapable" of winning a Playoff game. -or-

Marvin is 0 and 7 in Playoff games so his teams "always choke" in the Playoffs and he is "unable" to coach well enough in the Playoffs to win.

** They use the PAST to make Absolute statements about the Future.

*** Many can give the Raiders a Pass for losing in the Playoffs last year after their Starting QB went out with injury but Marvin's best two teams lost their Starting QBs (Palmer/Dalton) and they state that losing them made "no difference" in the outcome. (Losing Derek Carr mattered for the Raiders but us losing Palmer/Dalton in Playoff games was inconsequential)

The Folks that have put an Absolute Stamp of Failure on the Future will be the ones deserving of Crow eating IF Mike and Marvin can find Post Season success.

(05-09-2017, 10:42 AM)depthchart Wrote: It is when people have used "Absolute" terms to describe the future that they will deserve to eat Crow if the Bengals do win in the Playoffs.

For example; People will say "No way" Mike and Marvin can win a Playoff game.  -or-

As long as Marvin is here we will "Never" win a Playoff game.  -or-

The past 26 years are proof that Mike and Marvin are "incapable" of winning a Playoff game. -or-

Marvin is 0 and 7 in Playoff games so his teams "always choke" in the Playoffs and he is "unable" to coach well enough in the Playoffs to win.

** They use the PAST to make Absolute statements about the Future.

*** Many can give the Raiders a Pass for losing in the Playoffs last year after their Starting QB went out with injury but Marvin's best two teams lost their Starting QBs (Palmer/Dalton) and they state that losing them made "no difference" in the outcome. (Losing Derek Carr mattered for the Raiders but us losing Palmer/Dalton in Playoff games was inconsequential)

The Folks that have put an Absolute Stamp of Failure on the Future will be the ones deserving of Crow eating IF Mike and Marvin can find Post Season success.

(05-09-2017, 10:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote:

Does that make ebenezer the emperor, dark lord of football?


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