(05-15-2017, 02:36 PM)shanebo Wrote: This reminds me of some of our past drafts in which we selected a lesser-regarded player -- or a player with question marks -- over the "consensus" picks at their positions:
2004 - Could've had Steven Jackson, but traded back and picked Chris Perry
2008 - Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson and Limas Sweed
2009 - Andre Smith over Eugene Monroe
2012 - Could've had David DeCastro, but traded back to pick Zeitler

Of course, other times we picked the "sure thing" over the question marks:
2000 - Peter Warrick over Plaxico Burress
2003 - Carson Palmer over Byron Leftwich and Kyle Boller
2008 - Keith Rivers over Jerod Mayo
2010 - Jermaine Gresham over Dez Bryant

Sometimes our picks work out (Dre, CP3), sometimes it's a wash (Zeitler), other times it's a disaster (Simpson, Rivers).  Only time will tell.  I just hope the decision to pick Elliot was based on a fair evaluation of his talent, rather than an expectation of their ability to retain/resign a slightly lesser but functional player at a lower price (which was always my suspicion with the Perry and Zeitler picks ... and, to a lesser extent, Andre Smith -- "We're signing you to play RT, so you have to take less $")

It's better to take a gamble like this in the 5th Round.

Honestly, the Bengals probably scouted him more as he's closer in Memphis. When you have limited scouts, I doubt you're going to Arizona too much to watch a kicker kick 2 fgs in a game.

(05-15-2017, 04:02 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's better to take a gamble like this in the 5th Round.

Honestly, the Bengals probably scouted him more as he's closer in Memphis. When you have limited scouts, I doubt you're going to Arizona too much to watch a kicker kick 2 fgs in a game.

Simmons did say he worked them both out. I am not sure where they worked out, but Simmons saw both of them, this whole thread is pretty moot IMHO....

(05-15-2017, 04:08 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Simmons did say he worked them both out. I am not sure where they worked out, but Simmons saw both of them, this whole thread is pretty moot IMHO....

Lewis and Simmons were at Arizona St pro day to work out Gonzalez.
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/3/17/14954448/bengals-privately-met-kicker-zane-gonzalez-asu-pro-day

& apparently they came away convinced Elliot would be better. And that's good enough for me. I'm looking forward to seeing him nail them for years to come.

I hope Elliott becomes the greatest kicker in franchise history, but if he and Bullock had a kickign competition today (however a ST coach would work out a kicker), I would put money on Bullock, and I bet he would be getting plus odds!

(05-15-2017, 02:36 PM)shanebo Wrote: This reminds me of some of our past drafts in which we selected a lesser-regarded player -- or a player with question marks -- over the "consensus" picks at their positions:
2004 - Could've had Steven Jackson, but traded back and picked Chris Perry
2008 - Jerome Simpson over DeSean Jackson and Limas Sweed
2009 - Andre Smith over Eugene Monroe
2012 - Could've had David DeCastro, but traded back to pick Zeitler

Of course, other times we picked the "sure thing" over the question marks:
2000 - Peter Warrick over Plaxico Burress
2003 - Carson Palmer over Byron Leftwich and Kyle Boller
2008 - Keith Rivers over Jerod Mayo
2010 - Jermaine Gresham over Dez Bryant

Sometimes our picks work out (Dre, CP3), sometimes it's a wash (Zeitler), other times it's a disaster (Simpson, Rivers). Only time will tell. I just hope the decision to pick Elliot was based on a fair evaluation of his talent, rather than an expectation of their ability to retain/resign a slightly lesser but functional player at a lower price (which was always my suspicion with the Perry and Zeitler picks ... and, to a lesser extent, Andre Smith -- "We're signing you to play RT, so you have to take less $")

Nice post!

(05-15-2017, 12:17 PM)sandwedge Wrote: 80 degree weather in February and March in Memphis?? I'm booking my next winter vacation there!!   
You obviously know little about kicking mechanics, a hint, it has nothing to do with how tall a kicker is..
Did you happen to see Gonzalez's workout at sea level? I used to teach golf in Arizona and I can tell you, the ball goes about 25 yds further with every club than in say in Ohio. 
My point is, you're dismissing the altitude difference. 

that's not the video I watched....everyone was wearing t shirts, shorts....some type of practice....Elliot made every kick...had a good wind at his back....warm day....

hey if Elliot works out fine....I just don't like reaches....I bet 99.9% of big boards everywhere has Gonzalez as the #1 guy.... 
post draft I read a scathing report on this pick.....they totally ripped the bengals for this & I agree w/ them....but we'll see....perhaps we won't need any 50 yard field goals all season....???  yea right...  Do'h

(05-15-2017, 09:56 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote: I hope Elliott becomes the greatest kicker in franchise history, but if he and Bullock had a kickign competition today (however a ST coach would work out a kicker), I would put money on Bullock, and I bet he would be getting plus odds!

I agree w/ you 100%

the post draft report I read totally ripped this pick.....
said Elliot's "smallish" even for kickers....
erratic on long kicks....b/c of a weak leg....
not good on kick offs....b/c of the weak leg...

but we'll see....

if nothing else the Bengals made a huge mistake by picking Elliot in rd #5.....when the #1 ranked kicker went to the Browns in rd #7......

but maybe someone has some....."alternative facts".....  

(05-15-2017, 12:41 PM)Sled21 Wrote: According to this article, Elliott out kicked Gonzales at the combine.....

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/5/5/15540028/anonymous-scouts-say-jake-elliott-is-the-best-kicker-of-the-2017-draft-class

Thank you very much Sled, will also say i trust Simmons who is in my opinion one of the best ST's coaches in the NFL...

(05-16-2017, 08:16 PM)Steve Wrote: I agree w/ you 100%

the post draft report I read totally ripped this pick.....
said Elliot's "smallish" even for kickers....
erratic on long kicks....b/c of a weak leg....
not good on kick offs....b/c of the weak leg...

but we'll see....

if nothing else the Bengals made a huge mistake by picking Elliot in rd #5.....when the #1 ranked kicker went to the Browns in rd #7......

but maybe someone has some....."alternative facts".....  

Agreed. It reminded me of Al Davis' ignorance of game theory in his drafting strategy...why use a 5th round pick on a guy you like, if potentially every other team is waiting until the 7th round (the Panthers did draft a kicker with the 15th pick in the 7th)?  If you've ever participate din a single fantasy football league, you know that drafting a kicker early is not a good value, and likewise the Bengals should have been looking for another "Marvin Jones or George Iloka-style" diamond in the rough in the 5th round.

(05-16-2017, 08:09 PM)Steve Wrote: that's not the video I watched....everyone was wearing t shirts, shorts....some type of practice....Elliot made every kick...had a good wind at his back....warm day....

hey if Elliot works out fine....I just don't like reaches....I bet 99.9% of big boards everywhere has Gonzalez as the #1 guy.... 
post draft I read a scathing report on this pick.....they totally ripped the bengals for this & I agree w/ them....but we'll see....perhaps we won't need any 50 yard field goals all season....???  yea right...  Do'h

Elliot performed very well against competition in lower altitude, and with colder temperatures than Gonzalez.  Darrin Simmons said as much.  From what I understand and Dan Hoard said something similar as he had seen a lot of Elliot against UC over the years, is that Elliot was the best kicker in all of college football over his career under 30 yards.  

They need consistency more than they needed a guy that can make 50-plus yard FGs.  That being said, going something like 10 for 16 from 50-plus is pretty impressive.  

We just need to relax and let it play out.  Elliott is going to likely be our kicker for some time moving forward and I am excited to see him work.  

(05-16-2017, 09:58 PM)lostpoet2 Wrote: Agreed. It reminded me of Al Davis' ignorance of game theory in his drafting strategy...why use a 5th round pick on a guy you like, if potentially every other team is waiting until the 7th round (the Panthers did draft a kicker with the 15th pick in the 7th)?  If you've ever participate din a single fantasy football league, you know that drafting a kicker early is not a good value, and likewise the Bengals should have been looking for another "Marvin Jones or George Iloka-style" diamond in the rough in the 5th round.

Gonzalez went to the Browns and Butker to the Panthers in the 7th. What nobody knows is where Elliott would have gone if the Bengals didn't select him in the 5th.
You have to believe that if the Bengals had Gonzalez and Elliott neck and neck, they would have waited longer on a kicker because it wouldn't really have mattered to them which one was still available in round 6-7. But they felt Elliott was that much better than Gonzalez to use a 5th round pick.

Willing to wait and see on this one after watching Aguayo (sp?) of Tampa Bay struggle last year. Dude was a stud in college but had a rough rookie season. Mental aspect of kicking cannot be measured. If Bengals liked Elliott better than Gonzalez, I'll trust their scouting at this point regardless what the experts think. If Bengals wrong, they'll be reminded twice/year over the next 10-15 years playing against Gonzalez.

(05-17-2017, 12:47 PM)Lionel Hutz Wrote: Willing to wait and see on this one after watching Aguayo (sp?) of Tampa Bay struggle last year.  Dude was a stud in college but had a rough rookie season.  Mental aspect of kicking cannot be measured.  If Bengals liked Elliott better than Gonzalez, I'll trust their scouting at this point regardless what the experts think.  If Bengals wrong, they'll be reminded twice/year over the next 10-15 years playing against Gonzalez.

According to Simmons the mental aspect was a big reason for taking Elliott over Gonzalez.

Dude has nerves of steel from what i hear.

Damn, Masonbengalsfan got banned too? Man, lots of guys got banned this week!

(05-19-2017, 04:17 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: According to Simmons the mental aspect was a big reason for taking Elliott over Gonzalez.

Dude has nerves of steel from what i hear.

Damn, Masonbengalsfan got banned too? Man, lots of guys got banned this week!

Must have been some sensitive topics to get so many people fired up. Multiple bans and suspensions the past week or two.
Crazy.

(05-19-2017, 04:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Must have been some sensitive topics to get so many people fired up. Multiple bans and suspensions the past week or two.
Crazy.

Must of been in P&R, never seen this many guys banned in a couple weeks though.

(05-19-2017, 04:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Must of been in P&R, never seen this many guys banned in a couple weeks though.

Normally if it's P&R, they'll turn purple and it'll say "Restricted (P&R)" rather than pink and "Banned".

...plus a quick view of their list of posts show 0 posts in P&R in at least the last 60 posts. (I didn't bother checking further.)

(05-19-2017, 07:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Normally if it's P&R, they'll turn purple and it'll say "Restricted (P&R)" rather than pink and "Banned".

...plus a quick view of their list of posts show 0 posts in P&R in at least the last 60 posts. (I didn't bother checking further.)

Cool didn't know that, just assumed as that is where people really get fired up.

I don't even go in there anymore. Smack Talk is the other one where it gets nasty rightfully so talking to Stain and Stooler fans.

Just never seen that many guys go and most seemed like calm individuals, Masonbengalfan and TKUHL are a couple good posters.

Edit: Orangelacroix was known to get a little testy though lol

(05-19-2017, 07:13 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Cool didn't know that, just assumed as that is where people really get fired up.

I don't even go in there anymore. Smack Talk is the other one where it gets nasty rightfully so talking to Stain and Stooler fans.

Just never seen that many guys go and most seemed like calm individuals, Masonbengalfan and TKUHL are a couple good posters.

Edit: Orangelacroix was known to get a little testy though lol

I know there was a pretty big amount during/after the draft for Mixon arguments going too far. 

(05-19-2017, 09:12 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I know there was a pretty big amount during/after the draft for Mixon arguments going too far. 

For sure, is Wes still around lol?