(05-18-2017, 01:18 PM)grampahol Wrote: So Peko goes to a team that wants to win a championship, but has no real viable candidate at the QB position.. 
No Mr Peko, you saw the writing on the wall. Age and lack of production was spelling the end of your career in Cincinnati. I don't buy for one minute he left to pursue a championship with a quarterbackless team over one with a well established QB, but it sure makes nice sports page fodder. 

Players say it's about winning...but they generally go to the team that offers the most money. Aka Whitworth to the Rams. Zeitler to the Browns.

(05-18-2017, 01:34 PM)jj22 Wrote: Most teams don't even make the playoffs the way we have the last 6 years. And we have a better chance then the team he joined. But don't let me sound like Hobspin to fight back against this attack from Peko. Great job repaying the team for their loyalty to you. Kept you way longer than any other team would have.

Peko should know he'll be remembered for his useless 15 yarder in the playoff meltdown we could have actually won. At least Jones was defending the defensive huddle, and Burfict was knocking Steelers out for us. Peko was just a hangeroner chasing people on the field who weren't even thinking about him.

Ok - So discredit Peko. Let's look at J Joseph:


"The first thing about Houston is it’s an organization run from a different perspective. In Cincy, the team lives off money it earns from football. Houston’s owner has other business interests and he controls the money. Numerous things that go on such as the way Houston interacts with my family; we’re treated in a first-class way. They helped us when my wife lost our baby daughter in a miscarriage. But they help with anything you ask of them because they are a very caring organization with positive attitudes about its players. In Cincy, we’re told how much Gatorade we could take home. In Houston we get what we request. You get soap and deodorant at your request. You don’t have a roommate on road trips."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259186-jonathan-joseph-former-cincinnati-bengals-corner-says-bengals-are-a-cheap-team

Funny thing, it only takes one championship to establish the "winning culture".. Just ask any Chicago Cubs fan. 

(05-18-2017, 01:47 PM)grampahol Wrote: Funny thing, it only takes one championship to establish the "winning culture".. Just ask any Chicago Cubs fan. 

The Cubs also have a great young team...but yes winning a championship does a lot to change perception.

Honestly...teams like the Steelers have 6 Super Bowls.

The Bengals haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years and have 5 playoff wins in their ENTIRE 50 YEAR HISTORY.

Our coach is something like 0-7 or 8 in playoff games.

Which team has a 'winning culture'?

Well we weren't going to win a championship or even a playoff game with that useless fat tub of goo getting pushed and thrown around like a rag doll !!

(05-18-2017, 01:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Cubs also have a great young culture...but yes winning a championship does a lot to change perception.

Honestly...teams like the Steelers have 6 Super Bowls.

The Bengals haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years and have 5 playoff wins in their ENTIRE 50 YEAR HISTORY.

Our coach is something like 0-7 or 8 in playoff games.

Which team has a 'winning culture'?

And yet we're still Bengals fans.. Now whose fault is that? 

(05-18-2017, 01:40 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Players say it's about winning...but they generally go to the team that offers the most money. Aka Whitworth to the Rams. Zeitler to the Browns.

Sadly, you could say with current coaching and ownership that both of those franchises are closer to winning a championship then Marvin and Mike Brown.

(05-18-2017, 01:50 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Cubs also have a great young culture...but yes winning a championship does a lot to change perception.

Honestly...teams like the Steelers have 6 Super Bowls.

The Bengals haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years and have 5 playoff wins in their ENTIRE 50 YEAR HISTORY.

Our coach is something like 0-7 or 8 in playoff games.

Which team has a 'winning culture'?

Here's a twist. If the Browns make it to the playoffs and lose the next year or even two? I will call that a winning culture because they improved. Although we had a great draft this year, we have also had them in the past. Talent sits on the bench while washed up vets continue to play. A winning culture is not faithful to seniority, but puts the best players on the field. Your main goal is to win every down.

(05-18-2017, 01:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:
The Bengals DO NOT have a winning culture. They've won a grand total of 5 playoff games in 50 years!


The players themselves come out and talk about how they don't have a winning culture here. Many players have done it.

Teams like the Steelers and Patriots start the year thinking Super Bowl. Anything less is a disappointment.

The Bengals generally fail to beat teams like the Steelers. They also generally don't play well in the big Primetime Games against good teams...and also haven't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

You're shifting the target A LOT to consider this team to have a winning culture.

I'm simply saying success to one person may not be considered success to another. Doesn't make someone's opinion right or wrong.
But seeing as you are so adamant about this...the point of this thread is because of Peko saying the Bengals put their focus on winning a playoff game whereas the Broncos talk about winning Super Bowls. Would the Bengals be any better if they talked about winning Super Bowls? I don't think they would.

(05-18-2017, 02:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm simply saying success to one person may not be considered success to another. Doesn't make someone's opinion right or wrong.
But seeing as you are so adamant about this...the point of this thread is because of Peko saying the Bengals put their focus on winning a playoff game whereas the Broncos talk about winning Super Bowls. Would the Bengals be any better if they talked about winning Super Bowls? I don't think they would.

What you're really saying is that some people have a lower measuring stick for what they consider success.

Our Head Coach is 0-7 in playoff games...and STILL THE HEAD COACH. Our GM hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ games. Those 2 sentences tell you everything you need to know about our culture.

(05-18-2017, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok - So discredit Peko. Let's look at J Joseph:


"The first thing about Houston is it’s an organization run from a different perspective. In Cincy, the team lives off money it earns from football. Houston’s owner has other business interests and he controls the money. Numerous things that go on such as the way Houston interacts with my family; we’re treated in a first-class way. They helped us when my wife lost our baby daughter in a miscarriage. But they help with anything you ask of them because they are a very caring organization with positive attitudes about its players. In Cincy, we’re told how much Gatorade we could take home. In Houston we get what we request. You get soap and deodorant at your request. You don’t have a roommate on road trips."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259186-jonathan-joseph-former-cincinnati-bengals-corner-says-bengals-are-a-cheap-team

I'm (obviously) fine with J.Joe, but a lot has changed since then...... I hope/think.

(05-18-2017, 02:15 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm (obviously) fine with J.Joe, but a lot has changed since then...... I hope/think.

I doubt if any of that changed. That article on Joseph was from 2012.

What about Carson Palmer:

“I have seen guys, run into guys back in San Diego, talked, texted … I think that anybody that’s ever played for that ownership knows what I was doing and why I was doing it."

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/11/23/3681754/carson-palmer-explains-his-reasons-for-leaving-cincinnati-kind-of

(05-18-2017, 02:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What you're really saying is that some people have a lower measuring stick for what they consider success.

Our Head Coach is 0-7 in playoff games...and STILL THE HEAD COACH. Our GM hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ games. Those 2 sentences tell you everything you need to know about our culture.

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Some people have a lower measuring stick for what is considered success vs someone else.
Some are happy being where they are at, others strive for more. Typically, if people continue to strive for more, they sacrifice something else.
For example, one software engineer has aspirations to become a software architect while another on the team just wants to get to more of a lead role, which is less pay/responsibility than architect.
Should the second software engineer be criticized for wanting to be "just" a team lead while the other strives to become an architect? It ultimately comes down to whatever makes them satisfied, right? To become an architect, typically that individual will have to put in many extra hours and make work his/her priority in life. That isn't desirable to everyone.

But maybe that is an inaccurate analogy because every NFL franchise is expected to have the same goal - win a championship.
Man, I'm curious to see how many fans would jump ship if the Bengals came out and said they really only have a goal to win a playoff game but have no aspirations to win a championship (although I don't actually think this is their philosophy at all, they simply have a short term goal in mind they want to achieve first)

(05-18-2017, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok - So discredit Peko. Let's look at J Joseph:


"The first thing about Houston is it’s an organization run from a different perspective. In Cincy, the team lives off money it earns from football. Houston’s owner has other business interests and he controls the money. Numerous things that go on such as the way Houston interacts with my family; we’re treated in a first-class way. They helped us when my wife lost our baby daughter in a miscarriage. But they help with anything you ask of them because they are a very caring organization with positive attitudes about its players. In Cincy, we’re told how much Gatorade we could take home. In Houston we get what we request. You get soap and deodorant at your request. You don’t have a roommate on road trips."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259186-jonathan-joseph-former-cincinnati-bengals-corner-says-bengals-are-a-cheap-team

So a guy that signed a 41+ million dollar contract complained about not getting all the free Gatorade or soap he wanted?  ***** go spend your 41 million dollars on something.

this is the worst example you could have gave I lost a lot of respect for JJoe after these comments.

(05-18-2017, 02:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. Some people have a lower measuring stick for what is considered success vs someone else.
Some are happy being where they are at, others strive for more. Typically, if people continue to strive for more, they sacrifice something else.
For example, one software engineer has aspirations to become a software architect while another on the team just wants to get to more of a lead role, which is less pay/responsibility than architect.
Should the second software engineer be criticized for wanting to be "just" a team lead while the other strives to become an architect? It ultimately comes down to whatever makes them satisfied, right? To become an architect, typically that individual will have to put in many extra hours and make work his/her priority in life. That isn't desirable to everyone.

But maybe that is an inaccurate analogy because every NFL franchise is expected to have the same goal - win a championship.
Man, I'm curious to see how many fans would jump ship if the Bengals came out and said they really only have a goal to win a playoff game but have no aspirations to win a championship (although I don't actually think this is their philosophy at all, they simply have a short term goal in mind they want to achieve first)

Every team would like to win a championship obviously. Teams all invest in that goal differently.

The Bengals stick with a coach that is 0-7 in the playoffs. That says a lot. How many other teams would do that?

(05-18-2017, 08:45 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: This is worth mentioning again. Let's not pretend that our QB, run game and run defense haven't played a part in said epic collapses.

We might as well start blaming AJ, AD, Burfict and Geno because they are also apart of the problem of Being content with a playoff win. They are also winless in the playoffs.

Yep. It's always been one giant collective choke job, and that's why I never single out individual players as reasons we lost. 

I look at the coaches and/or the way the FO does business.

(05-18-2017, 08:51 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I don't question their motive or will for wanting to win a SB. I question their approach to those playoff games.

Exactly. 

(05-18-2017, 02:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: So a guy that signed a 41+ million dollar contract complained about not getting all the free Gatorade or soap he wanted?  ***** go spend your 41 million dollars on something.

this is the worst example you could have gave I lost a lot of respect for JJoe after these comments.

You can bash the players all you want...but the owners make millions of dollars too as is dictated by the CBA. Don't you think it's petty to restrict Gatorade and soap?

If you worked at a company that had a water cooler and restricted you to drinking 2 cups a day...wouldn't you talk?

(05-18-2017, 02:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Yep. It's always been one giant collective choke job, and that's why I never single out individual players as reasons we lost. 

I look at the coaches and/or the way the FO does business.


Exactly. 

Yep. When you get to the playoffs, you generally face not only really good teams...but really good coaches.

Strengths of this team have crumbled in the playoffs...aka the defense.

We've had weaknesses that teams knew how to attack.

(05-18-2017, 02:24 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Every team would like to win a championship obviously. Teams all invest in that goal differently.

The Bengals stick with a coach that is 0-7 in the playoffs. That says a lot. How many other teams would do that?

I don't disagree with that at all. But now you're talking about something that is different from the purpose of the thread.
Having the main focus be to win a playoff game rather than talking about winning a championship is different than sticking with a coach that is 0-7 in the playoffs.
Whether you talk about winning "just" a playoff game vs winning a championship, keeping a coach with 0-7 record in the playoffs isn't getting to either result.