(05-18-2017, 02:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: What about Carson Palmer:

“I have seen guys, run into guys back in San Diego, talked, texted … I think that anybody that’s ever played for that ownership knows what I was doing and why I was doing it."

http://www.cincyjungle.com/2012/11/23/3681754/carson-palmer-explains-his-reasons-for-leaving-cincinnati-kind-of

Did Palmer ever say, "I sukked so bad against the Jets in the playoff game, even an epic performance by CB32 couldn't get us a win."

Did Peko say, "If we could have stopped Danny Woodhead from running all over us, maybe we could have won the home playoff game against the Chargers." 

These guys seem to forget that every time you point a finger at someone else, four of them are pointing right back at you.

It isn't that what they're saying isn't true, mofo's that live in glass houses have a lot of nerve tossing stones.

Name five Bengals who have raised their level of play for the playoffs.  Of course it ultimately falls in the lap of the bosses, but how do the players get a free pass for so much sukking?

 No matter how much Gatorade you get to pilfer, you still have to go out and perform. And if you do perform, then you can tlk shit.

(05-18-2017, 02:23 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: So a guy that signed a 41+ million dollar contract complained about not getting all the free Gatorade or soap he wanted?  ***** go spend your 41 million dollars on something.

this is the worst example you could have gave I lost a lot of respect for JJoe after these comments.

I'm more than confident that this has already been said, but he was one of the leaders in the locker room. He is just as much to blame for this attitude as anyone else. His statement isn't wrong, but if it's a dig at the bengals it's a dig to himself too.

No reason to turn on J.Joe. That was before the "reboot" that gave us our most success in a couple decades. Peko was around for the historic one and done run, and is as much to blame for it then the "culture".

(05-18-2017, 01:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ok - So discredit Peko. Let's look at J Joseph:


"The first thing about Houston is it’s an organization run from a different perspective. In Cincy, the team lives off money it earns from football. Houston’s owner has other business interests and he controls the money. Numerous things that go on such as the way Houston interacts with my family; we’re treated in a first-class way. They helped us when my wife lost our baby daughter in a miscarriage. But they help with anything you ask of them because they are a very caring organization with positive attitudes about its players. In Cincy, we’re told how much Gatorade we could take home. In Houston we get what we request. You get soap and deodorant at your request. You don’t have a roommate on road trips."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1259186-jonathan-joseph-former-cincinnati-bengals-corner-says-bengals-are-a-cheap-team

Didn't Mike Brown help Devon Still out with something a little more serious than providing deodorant and soap?

(05-18-2017, 04:06 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Didn't Mike Brown help Devon Still out with something a little more serious than providing deodorant and soap?

(05-18-2017, 04:17 PM)HarleyDog Wrote:

sandwedge talking about while Brown was criticized by Joseph for not providing things like gatorade and soap to be taken home, Brown did keep Devon Still on the roster so that he could have health benefits while his daughter went through her cancer treatment. Point being Brown doesn't put value into materialistic things like gatorade but he will definitely help a player who is going through something big like Devon Still's family did.

(05-18-2017, 04:40 PM)ochocincos Wrote: sandwedge talking about while Brown was criticized by Joseph for not providing things like gatorade and soap to be taken home, Brown did keep Devon Still on the roster so that he could have health benefits while his daughter went through her cancer treatment. Point being Brown doesn't put value into materialistic things like gatorade but he will definitely help a player who is going through something big like Devon Still's family did.

I get that. What does this have to do with winning? There are little mom and pop organizations that do the same thing every day. However, your a rich friggin bastid with a ton of money. Doesn't excuse anything that he does wrong with this team. Nice gesture, but the same could have been done without making your players feel disgruntled. Devon Still and his daughter have nothing, and I mean nothing to do with how crappy this organization is and how in the history of Mike's ownership, has made many players want to jump ship. That's why I say WTF?

(05-18-2017, 05:04 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I get that. What does this have to do with winning? There are little mom and pop organizations that do the same thing every day. However, your a rich friggin bastid with a ton of money. Doesn't excuse anything that he does wrong with this team. Nice gesture, but the same could have been done without making your players feel disgruntled. Devon Still and his daughter have nothing, and I mean nothing to do with how crappy this organization is and how in the history of Mike's ownership, has made many players want to jump ship. That's why I say WTF?

It's hard to know those details in your head when you only posted " "

But I get your point now that you explained it.

FWIW, Mike Brown is considered near the bottom in terms of richest owners at just under $1 billion.
http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-19465

Also, unlike most NFL owners, Mike Brown is rich solely because of the Bengals, he does not have another big side deal going that brings in cash flow.

So while just under $1 billion is not poor by any means, he's (much) poorer than a majority of NFL owners and being frugal is what has helped Brown get to the wealth he has.
It should be noted that the owner of the team JJo went to (Texans) is worth more than double Mike Brown, so he can easily dump more money into amenities.
[url=http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-19465][/url]

(05-18-2017, 05:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's hard to know those details in your head when you only posted " "

But I get your point now that you explained it.

FWIW, Mike Brown is considered near the bottom in terms of richest owners at just under $1 billion.
http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-19465

Also, unlike most NFL owners, Mike Brown is rich solely because of the Bengals, he does not have another big side deal going that brings in cash flow.

So while just under $1 billion is not poor by any means, he's (much) poorer than a majority of NFL owners and being frugal is what has helped Brown get to the wealth he has.
It should be noted that the owner of the team JJo went to (Texans) is worth more than double Mike Brown, so he can easily dump more money into amenities.
[url=http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-19465][/url]

1 billion? And this cat needs to cut amenities? I guess I should ask what hotel he had the team in? Most provide amenities?

(05-18-2017, 01:59 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Here's a twist. If the Browns make it to the playoffs and lose the next year or even two? I will call that a winning culture because they improved. Although we had a great draft this year, we have also had them in the past. Talent sits on the bench while washed up vets continue to play. A winning culture is not faithful to seniority, but puts the best players on the field. Your main goal is to win every down.

Exactly Harley !

(05-18-2017, 02:02 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I'm simply saying success to one person may not be considered success to another. Doesn't make someone's opinion right or wrong.
But seeing as you are so adamant about this...the point of this thread is because of Peko saying the Bengals put their focus on winning a playoff game whereas the Broncos talk about winning Super Bowls. Would the Bengals be any better if they talked about winning Super Bowls? I don't think they would.

Ocho,

Having a winning culture is not just saying we want to win a Super Bowl, or a playoff game, or during the regular season. A winning culture is not Marvin giving a pre-game rah rah speech. A winning culture is not having pre season t-shirts with whatever sayings on them, "do your job" or whatever. And it's not my, your, or this or that guys perception.

Like Harley and Pistons are saying it's very apparent through ACTIONS. Marvin being here for 15 years and can't get over the playoff hump. The lack of activity on free agents, tenured bum at O-line coach for decades because Mikey likes him, veteran players who stink staying around waaayyyyy to long. Sub par centers still having a job because the favorite little position coach has the ear of the boss. One could go on and on.

(05-18-2017, 05:19 PM)ochocincos Wrote: It's hard to know those details in your head when you only posted " "

But I get your point now that you explained it.

FWIW, Mike Brown is considered near the bottom in terms of richest owners at just under $1 billion.
http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-19465

Also, unlike most NFL owners, Mike Brown is rich solely because of the Bengals, he does not have another big side deal going that brings in cash flow.

So while just under $1 billion is not poor by any means, he's (much) poorer than a majority of NFL owners and being frugal is what has helped Brown get to the wealth he has.
It should be noted that the owner of the team JJo went to (Texans) is worth more than double Mike Brown, so he can easily dump more money into amenities.
[url=http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-19465][/url]

Ironically that's the reason why Art Moddell had to relocate the original Cleveland Browns to Baltimore.  He couldn't afford the team anymore so he made a deal with another billionaie to move the team and keep it.

I don't understand why people get worked up over ex-players comments like this???

He was an amazing ambassador for the Bengals and the city. He wanted to, and would have resigned and stayed if given the choice. He had to sign with a new team and is now being a great teammate and saying positive things there about that team and that city. That's what he should be doing. 100%. He didn't bash anyone or anything in Cincy or at PBS then or now. What he said is 100% true.

I find it odd that people are upset at Peko, a model citizen and player, to the point where they take something normal and reasonable he said THAT IS TRUE and we now have a thread crapping on him that's 6 pages long!

As a person and member of the local community this guy was the anti-Adam Jones and people are still crapping on him. He's not a prisoner nor is he property of the city of Cincinnati.

Frankly, I don't care about what Carson said, either. What Carson did was to publicly shame and embarrass the Bengals... RIGHTFULLY SO... and that finally resulted in fantastic organizational changes. Carson should be hoisted on our shoulders as a martyr, not crapped on. He quit because THAT was the only way to change his AND the Bengals situation. Everybody won. Good for Carson and good for Peko and good for Whitworth. Those guys were model Bengals and model people while they were in Cincy for a short period of their lives.

You guys want Pacman to be a great guy and crap on him when he isn't, and then you crap on great guys when they leave even when they didn't do anything wrong afterwards. Why the hell should anyone do anything for the fans if that's their attitude? You guys aren't loyal, either!

(05-18-2017, 05:04 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I get that. What does this have to do with winning? There are little mom and pop organizations that do the same thing every day. However, your a rich friggin bastid with a ton of money. Doesn't excuse anything that he does wrong with this team. Nice gesture, but the same could have been done without making your players feel disgruntled. Devon Still and his daughter have nothing, and I mean nothing to do with how crappy this organization is and how in the history of Mike's ownership, has made many players want to jump ship. That's why I say WTF?

So they would win more if the players got more Gatorade soap and deodorant?  Mike cares about his players sometimes way too much.  But it's like Joseph said they live off the Bengals.  Mike won't be around forever.  I hope they at least win a playoff game before he goes.

(05-18-2017, 10:11 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I don't understand why people get worked up over ex-players comments like this???

He was an amazing ambassador for the Bengals and the city. He wanted to, and would have resigned and stayed if given the choice. He had to sign with a new team and is now being a great teammate and saying positive things there about that team and that city. That's what he should be doing. 100%. He didn't bash anyone or anything in Cincy or at PBS then or now. What he said is 100% true.

I find it odd that people are upset at Peko, a model citizen and player, to the point where they take something normal and reasonable he said THAT IS TRUE and we now have a thread crapping on him that's 6 pages long!

As a person and member of the local community this guy was the anti-Adam Jones and people are still crapping on him. He's not a prisoner nor is he property of the city of Cincinnati.

Frankly, I don't care about what Carson said, either. What Carson did was to publicly shame and embarrass the Bengals... RIGHTFULLY SO... and that finally resulted in fantastic organizational changes. Carson should be hoisted on our shoulders as a martyr, not crapped on. He quit because THAT was the only way to change his AND the Bengals situation. Everybody won. Good for Carson and good for Peko and good for Whitworth. Those guys were model Bengals and model people while they were in Cincy for a short period of their lives.

You guys want Pacman to be a great guy and crap on him when he isn't, and then you crap on great guys when they leave even when they didn't do anything wrong afterwards. Why the hell should anyone do anything for the fans if that's their attitude? You guys aren't loyal, either!

so you're telling me that Peko saying the culture in the Bengals locker is solely focused on winning a (single) playoff game? BS. total BS. It's sour grapes is what it is.

(05-18-2017, 03:50 PM)McC Wrote: Did Palmer ever say, "I sukked so bad against the Jets in the playoff game, even an epic performance by CB32 couldn't get us a win."

Did Peko say, "If we could have stopped Danny Woodhead from running all over us, maybe we could have won the home playoff game against the Chargers." 

These guys seem to forget that every time you point a finger at someone else, four of them are pointing right back at you.

It isn't that what they're saying isn't true, mofo's that live in glass houses have a lot of nerve tossing stones.

Name five Bengals who have raised their level of play for the playoffs.  Of course it ultimately falls in the lap of the bosses, but how do the players get a free pass for so much sukking?

 No matter how much Gatorade you get to pilfer, you still have to go out and perform.  And if you do perform, then you can tlk shit.

A vast majority of our recent playoff losses has seen an epic collapse by nearly the entire team. When the whole team, except maybe one or two players, plays like a steaming pile of crap it's incredibly obvious you have a coaching problem. 

(05-18-2017, 11:18 PM)Aquapod770 Wrote: A vast majority of our recent playoff losses has seen an epic collapse by nearly the entire team. When the whole team, except maybe one or two players, plays like a steaming pile of crap it's incredibly obvious you have a coaching problem. 

No doubt there's a coaching problem.  But who is out there on the field?   Block your f ing man.  Catch the f ing ball.  Don't fumble.  Tackle the guy with the f ing ball.  It always comes down to the guys on the field.   It's in their hands.  Players have to make plays.
 
If I've lost five straight playoff games, how do I dare blame anyone else but me?  And if I'm one of the so called leaders of the team, isn't the culture what I'm supposed to be leading?

How the hell is Marvin making 47 guys collectively and simultaneously freak out?  It defies logic.

(05-18-2017, 05:04 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: I get that. What does this have to do with winning? There are little mom and pop organizations that do the same thing every day. However, your a rich friggin bastid with a ton of money. Doesn't excuse anything that he does wrong with this team. Nice gesture, but the same could have been done without making your players feel disgruntled. Devon Still and his daughter have nothing, and I mean nothing to do with how crappy this organization is and how in the history of Mike's ownership, has made many players want to jump ship. That's why I say WTF?

You would onlt have a point if every single player that came through here whined and ran away.  But they don't.  We have a lot of very reputable players who love to play here. 

When JJ starts whiningh about how the Texans helped whne he lost his baby he is acting like the Bengals would not have done that.  but everything the Bengals ever do with players families seems to prove that they would.  

You can't just say "Everything negative isimportant, but everythin good is meaningless". 

And the funniest thing about the people who are ahgreeing with Peko is that many of them pointed at HIM as PROOF that the bengals "Do not even try to win".

Finally, I have heard bengals coaches and players talk about winning much more than just winning a playoff game.  So I really jhave no clue what he is talking abiout.  Wouldn't a team prepare EXACTLY the same to win a playoff game as they would to win a championship?

(05-19-2017, 08:25 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Finally, I have heard bengals coaches and players talk about winning much more than just winning a playoff game.  So I really jhave no clue what he is talking abiout.  Wouldn't a team prepare EXACTLY the same to win a playoff game as they would to win a championship?

That's questionable because many of the playoff games we went into, the players and coaches seemed very unprepared. In addition, being prepared also gives you a plan B, which we rarely seem to have or display. There's really no reason to try and pick up off field tidbits to try and build a case about the team and their attitude towards winning. We can bring the best of the best players into our house, pay them whatever they want, and our record will be close to the same. Without the proper leadership, they are all equally beatable. Therefore - their attitude towards winning is not equal to most teams. Our record in the playoffs display this. Marvins tenure displays this and so does our failure to plan accordingly.

 

(05-18-2017, 06:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Exactly Harley !


Ocho,

Having a winning culture is not just saying we want to win a Super Bowl, or a playoff game, or during the regular season. A winning culture is not Marvin giving a pre-game rah rah speech. A winning culture is not having pre season t-shirts with whatever sayings on them, "do your job" or whatever. And it's not my, your, or this or that guys perception.

Like Harley and Pistons are saying it's very apparent through ACTIONS. Marvin being here for 15 years and can't get over the playoff hump. The lack of activity on free agents, tenured bum at O-line coach for decades because Mikey likes him, veteran players who stink staying around waaayyyyy to long. Sub par centers still having a job because the favorite little position coach has the ear of the boss. One could go on and on.

I get your point, but your point is not related to what Peko said, which is the entire purpose of this thread. All the things you mentioned have no relevance to whether the focus is to win a playoff game or win a championship.