(05-29-2017, 01:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I was looking at the Bengals draft picks on defense since 2005.
The Dennards,Sands,Atkins, Ilokas and so forth
It's going on 12 years since O'Dell Thurman that the Bengals had a DROY candidate
I'm talking a real impact player difference maker on defense
Burfict had a very nice rookie season but no rookie since even him has really been able
To come out of the gate on fire (he was undrafted I know)
Every drafted rookie on defense that was selected before rd  5 other than Thurman
That ended up a starter took a couple years to really find himself
We need a rookie on defense to really put a spark in the lineup
Whether it be Wilis or Lawson it don't matter
On offense it's been different .Green and Dalton came out guns blazing such as Hill.
But this team needs a real game changer on defense
Not 3 years from now or next year
NOW!!
look at that lb from the Falcons...huge impact player
It's time

Game changers?? We have Geno, Burfict and Carlos now. give me some great role players to help the pass rush or cover LB and we will be fine. Give me a great 8 man DL rotation and we will hold leads in the 4th quarter.

(05-30-2017, 04:11 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: That's exactly what happened to Dunlap. He wasn't taking things seriously so he saw very little action in the first half of the 2010 season. It's what's happening to PJ Dawson right now. He hasn't taken practice seriously and he's nothing more than a bubble player now.

That's right.  Did you see the recent picture of PJ in OTAs?  Don't know what he was doing but he was either clowning around or not very focused.  The fact that no one claimed him off waivers was a major indication that everyone knows he's a major problem.

Shame.  Ton of talent.

(06-02-2017, 02:03 PM)3wt Wrote: That's right.  Did you see the recent picture of PJ in OTAs?  Don't know what he was doing but he was either clowning around or not very focused.  The fact that no one claimed him off waivers was a major indication that everyone knows he's a major problem.

Shame.  Ton of talent.

Major shame no doubt. Loved the pick at the time. Dude was always around the ball in college and just made plays.

(06-02-2017, 02:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Major shame no doubt. Loved the pick at the time. Dude was always around the ball in college and just made plays.

I get if you don't show as well cuz your blood isn't at the same level as it is at game time.  But I get the idea that he thinks he is all that and blows the coaches of entirely

(06-02-2017, 02:34 PM)3wt Wrote: I get if you don't show as well cuz your blood isn't at the same level as it is at game time.  But I get the idea that he thinks he is all that and blows the coaches of entirely

That is not how you make the big bucks.

(06-02-2017, 02:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That is not how you make the big bucks.

Agreed.  If I had that guy's talent...

(06-02-2017, 02:06 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Major shame no doubt. Loved the pick at the time. Dude was always around the ball in college and just made plays.

Dawson looked good on the field during game days, but that was the only time he looked good apparently. He didn't take practice seriously in college. He came to the NFL and expected it to be the same. Unlike Dunlap, who needed half a season, Dawson never woke up. When we waived him, I believe he took a little extra time to sign to our PS because he was hoping some other team came knocking.

(06-02-2017, 03:51 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Dawson looked good on the field during game days, but that was the only time he looked good apparently. He didn't take practice seriously in college. He came to the NFL and expected it to be the same. Unlike Dunlap, who needed half a season, Dawson never woke up. When we waived him, I believe he took a little extra time to sign to our PS because he was hoping some other team came knocking.

Needs to pull his head out of his ass.

He will be out of the league with this work ethic.

Like 3wt said, what a shame.

(06-02-2017, 03:51 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: Dawson looked good on the field during game days, but that was the only time he looked good apparently. He didn't take practice seriously in college. He came to the NFL and expected it to be the same. Unlike Dunlap, who needed half a season, Dawson never woke up. When we waived him, I believe he took a little extra time to sign to our PS because he was hoping some other team came knocking.

Sounds like it is nw or never for Dawson, we waived him with less talent around. Now we have Evans, Minter and some others. If he is not motivated to prove he belongs, he will head to retirement at a young age from the  NFL

(06-02-2017, 03:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sounds like it is nw or never for Dawson, we waived him with less talent around. Now we have Evans, Minter and some others. If he is not motivated to prove he belongs, he will head to retirement at a young age from the  NFL

I don't see us keeping Dawson unless he plays like the best LB in preseason. We typically keep 6 LBs and 5 spots are locked up, with Evans probably getting #6 since he's rookie.

(06-02-2017, 03:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Sounds like it is nw or never for Dawson, we waived him with less talent around. Now we have Evans, Minter and some others. If he is not motivated to prove he belongs, he will head to retirement at a young age from the  NFL

Burfict
Minter
Vigil
Lawson
Vinny
Evans (i truly think this guy will make the team on ST's alone, he is what Guenther wanted Lamur to be and is a Simmons pick)

Plus Fej is being talked about as a Nickel backer and we already know Shawn can play Nickel in a pinch.

Even if Dawson works his ass off he might not make the team. Crazy.

(06-02-2017, 04:01 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I don't see us keeping Dawson unless he plays like the best LB in preseason. We typically keep 6 LBs and 5 spots are locked up, with Evans probably getting #6 since he's rookie.

I think PJ will be on his way out of Cincy this year. Doesn't appear to get it or just isn't intelligent enough.

(06-02-2017, 04:17 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I think PJ will be on his way out of Cincy this year. Doesn't appear to get it or just isn't intelligent enough.

Sure looks like it, too bad, talented fella.

I have no problem at all with making rookies earn their way into the lineup. It's not a very good sign to see half of the defense being either rookies or 2nd year players. If they stand out head and shoulders above everyone else that's one thing, but starting them just because they're young doesn't make sense. .
Think about it in terms of your own life and jobs. Suppose you've been at the same job 5 or 6 years..you have the routine down really well..
One day the boss hires some snot noses kid who has no clue how things work and suddenly you've been relegated to go clean the toilets and replaced by the snot nose kid..
It's happened to me and I gotta say, I didn't stick around to find out how happy the snot nose kid was 6 months later..

(05-29-2017, 01:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I was looking at the Bengals draft picks on defense since 2005.
The Dennards,Sands,Atkins, Ilokas and so forth
It's going on 12 years since O'Dell Thurman that the Bengals had a DROY candidate
I'm talking a real impact player difference maker on defense
Burfict had a very nice rookie season but no rookie since even him has really been able
To come out of the gate on fire (he was undrafted I know)
Every drafted rookie on defense that was selected before rd  5 other than Thurman
That ended up a starter took a couple years to really find himself
We need a rookie on defense to really put a spark in the lineup
Whether it be Wilis or Lawson it don't matter
On offense it's been different .Green and Dalton came out guns blazing such as Hill.
But this team needs a real game changer on defense
Not 3 years from now or next year
NOW!!
look at that lb from the Falcons...huge impact player
It's time

# 1...I think the 2005 team is over rated. You would think we won the Super Bowl the way fans talk. We squeaked out a win early December by the skin of our teeth against Steelers, but Steelers took 2 out of 3 and THEY went on to win Super Bowl.   

# 2....I certainly don't see Defense as the Bengals problem. Bengals went to 6 play-offs in last 8 seasons mostly due to their defense holding it together as the offense would go 1, 2, 3, kick.   Defense put us in play-offs in 2012 win over Steelers. Defense was only reason we were in the last play-off game to take the late lead. If Hill doesn't cough up the ball, huge mistake, we are no longer talking about no play-off wins in 26 years, over half of the Bengals 50 year Anniversary. 

# 3....Thurman is more of a bad news story.  Pollack we lost to injury. Thurman we lost to stupidity. Losing both hurt. Thurman, Henry, Stanley Wilson fall into the WHAT IF bucket.   Talent wasted on the night club strippers, booze and drugs, just a waste. ...Thurman IS NOT a WE NEED MORE PLAYERS LIKE HIM story.  Just the opposite. 

# 4.....We go into 2017 with Atkins and Dunlap. We had nothing like them in 2005.  I like that they kept Kirky at CB.  We should be one of the better defenses in the NFL.   The huge problem going into 2017 is The Offensive Line with Whitworth and Zeitler gone.  Other than bringing Andre Smith back, we really didn't address it in off season.  We didn't draft Offensive Line as we needed to in 3rd, 4th rounds as we took extra WR and a kicker. We took one offensive lineman in almost the 6th round with our 8th pick.  That could be a huge mistake. Still, we have the top pick tackles from 2015 draft. We do have Smith back.  I'm hoping the undrafted Texas O Lineman who is a 4 year starter and can bench press more than anybody in draft, I'm hoping he is a Burfict type steal after the draft. .....If they can coach up the O Line this summer, we can win.  We have the defense and passing and running and our BLOCKING will make or break our season.  

# 5 and last....I'ld rather have a good long career player than rookie of the year.  Was Thurman even rookie of the year in the NFL ?  No, that went to Brian Urlacher.  Again, fans thinking we won Super Bowl in 2005 and Thurman was D rookie of year.  Never Happened. ....I'll take the longer careers of Atkins and Dunlap and Maualuga we just lost over the one year and done Thurman.   On Defense, it helps to be a veteran. Not a rookie but a seasoned Pro, not some dude out of college. Experience on Defense is Huge.  Just watch top quarterbacks pick apart rookies all game long.  I was worried about losing Kirky and Pacman legal trouble and only having the 2 unproven college boys at CB.  Keeping Kirk a good move.   The free agent linebacker should help.  I think we are fine on defense and can be a great defense in 2017.   If this team can BLOCK so we can use all these finesse players on offense, score some and not keep the D on the field all game......WE have a good D,  if the O doesn't go 1, 2, 3, kick all game due to no Blocking.   You win with defense, but the best defense is a good offense, and the best offense is the ones that line up and block people off the line of scrimmage as LOmbardi, Parcells teams and days of Munoz and Montoya. ..........I think we have a very good D, if we can Block, Score, and eat some Clock. 

With the draft class entering the NFL this season, our rookies on defense won't stand a chance at DRY. Jamal Adams would be my leading candidate heading into the season. Ross and Mixon might each have a shot at ORY. I don't much care. At the end of the season, individual awards don't matter much. Do you have a Lombardi or don't you?

I'm just saying it's been while we have had a defensive rookie come in and just tear it up right out the gate and make his presence felt.
What I meant as far as Odell....it was his on the field play not his
Off field issues
The guy was truly a force in 2005.
Would be nice to have a defensive bring that kind of difference making this year

Lots of opinions that differ on starting rookies. Very interesting. IMO we need to play these guys if they show promise and earn the spot. However, Marvin will play a subpar vet over a rookie busting nuts and playing better due to loya. We know it exists in Cincy, sad but true.

(06-01-2017, 11:21 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I know it was from 2015. That's why I put (2015) next to it. 

I was unable to find a PFF link from 2016, trust me I tried. I did link the article from the Cardinals fansite, which called him inconsistent in coverage in 2016, which is the same thing PFF says in a nutshell. If you want to be positive, you can say it was a sign of progress. The few great games could also be a fluke. Kinda odd that he would grade great in some games and terrible in others. Makes me wonder why. I've heard many say that coaches game planned to help Minter in this area. Synric is probably right about zone/man.

Fwiw, I'm not trying to bash Minter to death. I liked the signing and still do. He's young, capable of calling out plays, and while not quite fast in any way, he's certainly an upgrade from washed up Maualuga (who is still a free agent BTW) in that department. I just know he's probably not going to be a flawless player. Coverage is a question mark at best, and missed tackles were mentioned more than anything.

We should be used to those issues based on the last few seasons.

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