(06-07-2017, 11:15 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You also have to factor in the bengals did replace Zeitler with a former 1st round pick (Smith) and then in 2018 they will get a 3rd pick also. As was mentioned, you can't overpay to keep guys on the roster as significantly as they would have with Zeitler. Whittworth wanted more than a 1 year deal and got it, not sure it was great decision to pay him multiple years like Rams did, time will tell.

I don't have faith that a 30 year old RT coming off a big season-ending injury and not played RG before (at least in the NFL) could play near the same level as Zeitler. Again, goes back to how much of a priority is there to win now with the current core of good players. My perception is the Bengals have not done enough to try and have a Super Bowl caliber team, at least not for the past couple years.

(06-07-2017, 10:55 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand all that, no need to try to explain. But it's definitely true that the Bengals intentionally avoid signing FAs and instead more often target cut players during the initial FA period because it could affect comp picks.
And yes, when the Bengals have a top player like Whitworth, Zeitler, or even Nelson leave in FA and don't have someone in that the fans believe is at or near the same level of player, fans are skeptical. The fans don't want to see a decline at a position, especially if it means a regression in terms of W-L record.

I guess the point I was more trying to get at (which apparently I did a poor job since it seems so many people are disagreeing with me) is that the Bengals should be more active in FA by retaining their own good-to-great players or replacing them with proven veterans without worrying about what comp picks. Because at least for the past five years, none of the comp picks drafted have become starters or even big contributors on offense or defense.

This year's Comp Picks are:

4th round - Ryan Glasgow - DT
5th round - JJ Dielman - Center
6th round - Brandon Wilson - Cornerback
7th round - Mason Schreck - tight end

The ability to use Comp Picks now in Trades could add to their effective value if the Bengals started Trading Up to target Key players.

* 2017 will be a good Test to see how well they Transition losing Zeitler and Whit with the bringing back of Andre Smith coupled with the development of Cedric Ogbuehi & Jake Fisher.

** If the O-line can somehow Transition well then the Zeitler and Whit related Comp picks are a Bonus.

The Bengals have retained a lot of talented players while also having a steady yearly departure of solid players.

The Roster Peaked in 2015 and I see it heading back Up towards a new Peak especially after say a decent 2018 Draft.

In the meantime, they have to weather the Zeitler/Whitworth departures with the Plan they have in place for it.

Hopefully they can Dial it in for a new Roster Peak that occurs fairly soon.

(06-07-2017, 11:41 AM)depthchart Wrote: This year's Comp Picks are:

4th round - Ryan Glasgow - DT
5th round - JJ Dielman - Center
6th round - Brandon Wilson - Cornerback
7th round - Mason Schreck - tight end

The ability to use Comp Picks now in Trades could add to their effective value if the Bengals started Trading Up to target Key players.

* 2017 will be a good Test to see how well they Transition losing Zeitler and Whit with the bringing back of Andre Smith coupled with the development of Cedric Ogbuehi & Jake Fisher.

** If the O-line can somehow Transition well then the Zeitler and Whit related Comp picks are a Bonus.

The Bengals have retained a lot of talented players while also having a steady yearly departure of solid players.

The Roster Peaked in 2015 and I see it heading back Up towards a new Peak especially after say a decent 2018 Draft.

In the meantime, they have to weather the Zeitler/Whitworth departures with the Plan they have in place for it.

Hopefully they can Dial it in for a new Roster Peak that occurs fairly soon.

That's a good point and I would be all for trading away some of these lower comp picks to get back into Day 1 or Day 2.
You're right, we'll have to just wait and see with how the OL pans out and who steps up.
I'm just a Pessimistic Patty I guess until I see otherwise.

(06-07-2017, 11:46 AM)ochocincos Wrote: That's a good point and I would be all for trading away some of these lower comp picks to get back into Day 1 or Day 2.
You're right, we'll have to just wait and see with how the OL pans out and who steps up.
I'm just a Pessimistic Patty I guess until I see otherwise.

Since, as you say, most of the Comp picks do not pan out in a big way, then using some Comp Picks in Trade ups seems like a logical way to use some of them. Other teams may even over value them.

A combination of trading some Comps to avoid missing out on getting Key players in Drafts plus actually hitting on some of the Comp picks they do use would be ideal.

Letting some solid players leave in Free Agency to save money will likely remain a constant that we as fans have to live with though.

(06-07-2017, 12:16 PM)depthchart Wrote: Since, as you say, most of the Comp picks do not pan out in a big way, then using some Comp Picks in Trade ups seems like a logical way to use some of them. Other teams may even over value them.

A combination of trading some Comps to avoid missing out on getting Key players in Drafts plus actually hitting on some of the Comp picks they do use would be ideal.

Letting some solid players leave in Free Agency to save money will likely remain a constant that we as fans have to live with though.

(06-07-2017, 10:19 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I understand that, which is why it gets more frustrating to see proven players leave for the sake of getting a mid-late round comp pick that may or may not be any kind of solid O/D contributor (although in some cases like Sanu, I'm glad they left because IMO they got way overpaid). It just sucks that if such a good player like Zeitler leaves, the best return it can bring is the 97th pick in next year's draft. Zeitler was a first rounder, and it's very difficult to replace someone that talented with a third round comp pick (or worse).

That's true to an extent, but not all first rounders are equal and Zeitler was usually graded out as a 10-15 best guard and just got the biggest contract ever for the position and sometimes you hit on mid round guys like Atkins, Jones, Iloka and UDFA like Burfict and Erickson. You can't really fault the team for losing Zeitler or Sanu or even Jones. Both Zeitler and Sanu were grossly overpaid and Jones had the same offer from us, he just wanted to be the main guy. I think the one fault the front office had was letting Whit walk for 2-3 mil more than what they were willing to pay, but I get it, they want to see their young guys, it just might not work out that well. I guess we'll see this upcoming season.

(06-07-2017, 10:27 AM)Au165 Wrote: There are two parts of the comp pick equation there is the leaving part, but also who you replace them with. In a salary cap league you have to let top level guys league occasionally, that is how it works. I think most fans frustration is with the lack of replacing them with a slightly lower tier player at a lower price in order to garner these comp picks. I accept we have to let guys go, but I'd prefer we bring in guys like we did with Minter who are that next tier so our drop offs in the short run are limited.

I agree and while it might be nice to snag a top tier player every now and then, most of the time it just doesn't pan out that way. We've had such bad luck bringing in high priced guys in the past that I'm very hesitant to want to see the team throw out monster deals. However guys like Atkins, Green, Dunlap, Burfict have earned and deserve nice paydays and I hope we reward Atkins and Burfict as their contracts our coming up.