Andy just need to learn the Peyton move.....He played behind terrible OLs and just tucked it and fell to the ground when he knew his ass was going to get pummeled.... Dalton needs to stay clean, plays will come whether the OL is good or bad at times. Fast WRs and a healthy Eifert should keep teams honest on D and help with protection and the run game. Most teams will only rush 4 against us if that is the case.

I'm not sure if it was Lindy's, Athlon's or The Sporting News football preview that said that Russell Bodine was an excellent Center. I will check and see later but I couldn't believe what I was reading.

(06-14-2017, 11:05 PM)kevin Wrote: ....and out of all 16 AFC Teams rates Bengals at # 13.   The magazine says players keep leaving from the team that made 5 straight play-offs.  It says nothing Bengals are doing will mean a thing if the Offensive Line experiment blows up in their face.

Going through store, I took a look at it on Bengals.  So if you see other magazines like this, just remember what Paul Brown use to say about them. " Every summer about this time these things come out saying who's going to finish where and who will win it all. It makes you wonder why we even play the season. I have noticed though that these things are more wrong than right every year, so I think we will go ahead and play the season. "  - Paul Brown on these summer prediction magazines around 1972, give or take a year.

I do agree the offensive line was not addressed in free agency or draft very well.  The O Line Coach and O Linemen have their work cut out rebuilding into a team unit in training camp and preseason for start of season.  IF the O LINE comes together, Bengals will be one tough team.  GO BENGALS.

Well it does hinge on the O-line play so i cannot disagree if they suck, we will probably be 3rd in the North.

But i see guys like Og, Fisher, Boling and even Andre playing better this year. Og will not be better than Whitworth but even
if we brought in Ricky Wagner in FA he wouldn't of been as good as Whitworth. Og will play better this year at his natural
position where he can use that great athleticism. He is a lot stronger already according to Lap and has gotten much better in
his technique.

Fisher looks like a freak in the pics, best shape i have ever seen an Offensive Lineman in. Boling should be 100%, Andre
should be an upgrade in the running game over Zeitler and coming from RT should also be good in pass protection.

Even if we don't improve much we should improve some and own the Ravens, so i would lean closer to 2nd in the AFC North
if our O-line is still a weakness even. If these guys get better as everything alludes to though we should win the AFC North.

13-3 with an improved O-line and these weapons with this Defense and ST's is my early prediction.

Thinking around .500 if the O-line is bad again fighting with the Ravens for 2nd.

(06-15-2017, 12:04 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Too much is made of losing MLJ and Sanu. That is not why we went 6-9-1 last year.

I'd say it was 80% o-line, 10% lack of pass rush and 10% that the run game sucked. Throw in Eifert's injury somewhere as well.

It's easy (and lazy) to look at the outgoing players and correlate that to the drop off, but all the key players are still here.

It was mostly on coaching, PA was terrible last year, Zampese, Haslett, Burney and Coyle were in their first year here.

PA stuck with Og for way too frickin long at RT, took us till like week 11 to bench him. Zeitler was bad in the run game.

We didn't address the lack of a deep threat till like week 11 when we brought Core in to the games.

MJ and Hunt cannot bend and rush the passer so this is more on the players here.

My hope is the coaches going into their second year here get better, Og and Fisher get better, Andre is better in the run
game than Zeitler, our new deep threats and new RB open up the Offense, Willis and Lawson can bend and rush the passer
better than MJ and Hunt, Billings and Minter are better than Peko and Maualuga etc.

So far? Looking like these things are coming to fruition.

It's playing the odds. Odds are — based off of recent history (4-5 years) — the Steelers, Pats, Ravens and Indy are good to make the playoffs and maybe win a game; Bengals, Browns and Jags are good to not go anywhere even if they do make the playoffs.

I don't worry too much about what sites or magazines say. It's just playing the odds. But I'm repeating my stance from last year: if we keep rolling without upgrades on defense or coaching, we aren't winning in the postseason.

(06-16-2017, 01:53 PM)Benton Wrote: It's playing the odds. Odds are — based off of recent history (4-5 years) — the Steelers, Pats, Ravens and Indy are good to make the playoffs and maybe win a game; Bengals, Browns and Jags are good to not go anywhere even if they do make the playoffs.

I don't worry too much about what sites or magazines say. It's just playing the odds. But I'm repeating my stance from last year: if we keep rolling without upgrades on defense or coaching, we aren't winning in the postseason.

I will make a bold prediction and say that Billings, Minter, Willis, Lawson will be better than Peko, Maualuga and Hunt.

Plus Burney, Haslett and Coyle getting their first year under their belt should help.

This Defense could be the best in the NFL IMHO. They were tough to pass on last year.

Meh, the anger towards the doubters doesn't play nearly as well after a 6-win season. We really need to earn some trust this year.

(06-16-2017, 01:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It was mostly on coaching, PA was terrible last year, Zampese, Haslett, Burney and Coyle were in their first year here.

PA stuck with Og for way too frickin long at RT, took us till like week 11 to bench him. Zeitler was bad in the run game.

We didn't address the lack of a deep threat till like week 11 when we brought Core in to the games.

MJ and Hunt cannot bend and rush the passer so this is more on the players here.

My hope is the coaches going into their second year here get better, Og and Fisher get better, Andre is better in the run
game than Zeitler, our new deep threats and new RB open up the Offense, Willis and Lawson can bend and rush the passer
better than MJ and Hunt, Billings and Minter are better than Peko and Maualuga etc.

So far? Looking like these things are coming to fruition.

Both of those examples pissed me off to no end, but can't forget about Mike F*****g Nugent either  . 

And it was so obvious that these simple changes needed to be made long before they actually were. Plenty of fans on these boards were calling for these changes, and certain elitist others  tried to make us feel stupid with snarky quips like "I trust our coaches to do the right thing. Do you think you know better than the coaches?"

Sadly, sometimes... YES! And the coaches proved us right by finally making moves we were clamoring for. Pathetic, isn't it? 

(06-16-2017, 02:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I will make a bold prediction and say that Billings, Minter, Willis, Lawson will be better than Peko, Maualuga and Hunt.

Plus Burney, Haslett and Coyle getting their first year under their belt should help.

This Defense could be the best in the NFL IMHO. They were tough to pass on last year.

I hope you're right, and I do think it's likely we could plug in a lot of folks folks and upgrade from peko and hunt.

(06-14-2017, 11:05 PM)kevin Wrote: ....and out of all 16 AFC Teams rates Bengals at # 13.   The magazine says players keep leaving from the team that made 5 straight play-offs.  It says nothing Bengals are doing will mean a thing if the Offensive Line experiment blows up in their face.

Going through store, I took a look at it on Bengals.  So if you see other magazines like this, just remember what Paul Brown use to say about them. " Every summer about this time these things come out saying who's going to finish where and who will win it all. It makes you wonder why we even play the season. I have noticed though that these things are more wrong than right every year, so I think we will go ahead and play the season. "  - Paul Brown on these summer prediction magazines around 1972, give or take a year.

I do agree the offensive line was not addressed in free agency or draft very well.  The O Line Coach and O Linemen have their work cut out rebuilding into a team unit in training camp and preseason for start of season.  IF the O LINE comes together, Bengals will be one tough team.  GO BENGALS.

OL was addressed in the Draft... It was just address before hand and not as a need.   We have a 1st and 2nd rounder..   They need to play and we should expect them to play at the level we believed they were capable of when we drafted them.    We tend to draft more for the future as we have had a pretty solid team.

Will say Whitworth was declining and Big Z was a much a part as the bad OL last year as everyone else.  I don't think A Smith is a given to win the spot as there are a few on the roster the coaches have been talking up.

there are ways to help the OL as well such as spreading out the field which it looks like they intend to do with the drafting of 2 speedy WRs And getting our run game back to above average

(06-16-2017, 01:53 PM)Benton Wrote: It's playing the odds. Odds are — based off of recent history (4-5 years) — the Steelers, Pats, Ravens and Indy are good to make the playoffs and maybe win a game; Bengals, Browns and Jags are good to not go anywhere even if they do make the playoffs.

I don't worry too much about what sites or magazines say. It's just playing the odds. But I'm repeating my stance from last year: if we keep rolling without upgrades on defense or coaching, we aren't winning in the postseason.

If we go by the last 5 years bengals have better odds of making the playoffs than the ravens

As has been stated a bazillion times on here by many, I'll repeat it again myself. This season totally hinges on the O-line !

With the rest of the team/pieces we have I could totally see us going 11-5. OR, if the O-line stinks up the joint and I wouldn't be shocked, we could finish 5-11.

Hopefully the piano man can sing us a song ? But I'm not gonna bet the bank on it.

(06-16-2017, 05:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: As has been stated a bazillion times on here by many, I'll repeat it again myself. This season totally hinges on the O-line !

With the rest of the team/pieces we have I could totally see us going 11-5. OR, if the O-line stinks up the joint and I wouldn't be shocked, we could finish 5-11.

Hopefully the piano man can sing us a song ? But I'm not gonna bet the bank on it.

After what Lap said the other day about how well Og and Fisher are doing, I'm beginning to believe we have a chance.  He said that Og has been the only O-lineman that has been able to handle Lawson.

Hey, we are currently undefeated.   I will nurture my optimism until it is dashed against the rocks.  It will make the next 5 weeks a little easier to take.

I don't have any money to bet anyway...

(06-15-2017, 12:15 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: You forgot the nuge in there somewhere

Gee thanks. I'd forgotten about Nuge and you had to go and remind me.

(06-15-2017, 12:18 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I would place the blame more on losing coaches then on losing players. Losing the good and keeping the bad in the coaching ranks can not be helping things at all.

True true. Losing talent like Hue, having to reboot the offense and work in all these new coaches on defense can't help.

(06-15-2017, 04:44 AM)grampahol Wrote: We'll just have to wait and see how this season comes out.  PA takes a ton of heat here and elsewhere, but if both Ced and Jake play lights out some of the criticism will fade, but it's still on these young men to go out there and prove themselves to the league and fans alike. 
It's really easy to try to lay all the blame at the feet of coaches, but coaches aren't the guys who are 22-30 years old out there putting it all on the line every Sunday afternoon. 
If, and a big IF the Oline plays great and protects Andy and clears holes for the backs they'll deserve a lot of credit and likewise so will the coaches.. 
Just because I can I'm still going to cling to my outlandish prediction of us celebrating 50 years with a super bowl victory.. 

The problem with blaming players is that the coaches also picked these guys. So either way, it falls back on coaches. They are either failing at picking them, or failing to coach them up.

(06-15-2017, 12:28 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Andy just need to learn the Peyton move.....He played behind terrible OLs and just tucked it and fell to the ground when he knew his ass was going to get pummeled....  

If Dalton did that, people would call him soft, or claim he's anticipating pressure.

title of thread needs North at the end

I was really down on this team before the draft but now that my head's cooled down
I realized that we are not as bad of a team as I thought we were the schedule was brutal last year
We only had seven home games and the days we played we're crazy with all the prime time games
We should have been a 9-7 team if it wasn't for three missed FGs even with all the injury's and bad blocking.
We didn't have Burfict for the first four games also
So I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we will win at least 10 games and we will win this division
My reasoning for this is easier schedule and better kicking game and I feel like we upgraded all three phases of our team as far talent, team speed, this defense is going to be scary good top 5 easily !
I also think our O_line will jell by mid season and be a lot better than people thought it would be

(06-16-2017, 10:21 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Gee thanks. I'd forgotten about Nuge and you had to go and remind me.


True true. Losing talent like Hue, having to reboot the offense and work in all these new coaches on defense can't help.


The problem with blaming players is that the coaches also picked these guys. So either way, it falls back on coaches. They are either failing at picking them, or failing to coach them up.


If Dalton did that, people would call him soft, or claim he's anticipating pressure.

I agree 100% the players on the field are who has to "win the game" or lose it. The coaches don't fumble or throw interceptions, or make catches, or block etc.

But another area where our coaching has really let us down, in my opinion, and I'm quite sure I'm not alone ! Is this:

It's easy for good players to overcome coaching early in the season, Sept. Oct. early November. The weather is typically good, the film on what you're doing this season hasn't built up a lot. The injuries haven't mounted, etc.

But come late season, games you must win, crunch time and certainly the playoffs is where the great coaches/play calling/game planning really rises to the top. The weather is worse, the run game becomes increasingly more important, play calling and knowing how to use what you have and exploit the opposition's weakness is critical.

Marvin tries to sit on a one score lead 10 minutes into a game. Tries to run the clock out with three minutes to go at midfield before halftime only up by 3. And this just isn't gonna cut it in todays NFL. He hasn't figured out yet that it's not 1980 anymore ! The 13-10 games, three yards in a cloud of dust and ride the defense doesn't work anymore.

(06-16-2017, 04:00 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Both of those examples pissed me off to no end, but can't forget about Mike F*****g Nugent either  . 

And it was so obvious that these simple changes needed to be made long before they actually were. Plenty of fans on these boards were calling for these changes, and certain elitist others  tried to make us feel stupid with snarky quips like "I trust our coaches to do the right thing. Do you think you know better than the coaches?"

Sadly, sometimes... YES! And the coaches proved us right by finally making moves we were clamoring for. Pathetic, isn't it? 

Was right with you Pat, i know the exact elitist you are talking about.

It is sad when the fans call for these changes a month or so before they happen and when they do we see the results.

It isn't rocket science. You start the best players and if a player sucks you pull them to help the team.

Should be done much quicker than it was, we could of made the Playoffs again last year if they made those moves earlier.

(06-16-2017, 04:16 PM)Benton Wrote: I hope you're right, and I do think it's likely we could plug in a lot of folks folks and upgrade from peko and hunt.

Barring injuries i think i will be right about this Defense Benton. They could be great this year.

We were tough to pass on LAST season and that was with Peko and Maualuga on the team and no pass rush besides Atkins and Dunlap.

The additions of Billings, Minter, Willis and Lawson are huge. These guys are extremely versatile, not one trick ponys.

(06-15-2017, 01:05 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Yep, this is what is taking its toll the most on the Bengals. 

Promoting within is not always the answer either.  It sucks because once you get a foothold in this company you are going to be in power for awhile regardless of results. 

(06-17-2017, 12:01 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I agree 100% the players on the field are who has to "win the game" or lose it. The coaches don't fumble or throw interceptions, or make catches, or block etc.

But another area where our coaching has really let us down, in my opinion, and I'm quite sure I'm not alone ! Is this:

It's easy for good players to overcome coaching early in the season, Sept. Oct. early November. The weather is typically good, the film on what you're doing this season hasn't built up a lot. The injuries haven't mounted, etc.

But come late season, games you must win, crunch time and certainly the playoffs is where the great coaches/play calling/game planning really rises to the top. The weather is worse, the run game becomes increasingly more important, play calling and knowing how to use what you have and exploit the opposition's weakness is critical.

Marvin tries to sit on a one score lead 10 minutes into a game. Tries to run the clock out with three minutes to go at midfield before halftime only up by 3. And this just isn't gonna cut it in todays NFL. He hasn't figured out yet that it's not 1980 anymore ! The 13-10 games, three yards in a cloud of dust and ride the defense doesn't work anymore.

My stance is that if players are fumbling, throwing picks, choking games away, not blocking, etc...then maybe the coaches aren't coaching them up well enough. Either that, or we picked some shitty players, and our coaches seem heavily involved with that as well. I understand blaming players. I do it myself (depending on circumstances), but I never just blame players and let coaches off the hook. When you hand pick players and your job is to get them to perform, them's the breaks. Chain of command and all that jazz. 

As to your point, it got me curious to look at how the Bengals have performed under Marvin down the stretch each year. By my count, we've been in the playoff hunt late in the season 9 times. In 7 of those seasons, we had a disappointing record down the stretch (lost last couple games, lost 3 of last 5, etc). In contrast, we've been out of the playoff chase 5 times, and in all 5 of those seasons, we've had a surprisingly good finish all 5 times. 

Simply put, Marvin's teams just can't handle pressure (news flash, I know). The only time where the Bengals really turned in a clutch run to make the playoffs was in 2012, when they started 3-5, then went 7-1 to finish the season. Outside of that, they tend to fold as pressure mounts, or bounce back (dead-cat bounce) when the pressure is off. Add all this to the terrible record against the Steelers (chief rival) and their record in prime-time and playoffs, and it's easy to see the impact a coach can have on a team.