(06-11-2017, 12:49 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agreed. I have no complaints with how the Bengals (usually) handle the draft or how they plug cheap draft picks into key positions, replacing more expensive players. It depends on the case, but I usually prefer it. My main complaint is what they do with the money saved.


I'm not sure what you're saying. Mixon has a cap hit of 991 K this season. 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

Spotrac also shows that the total of Mixon's contract is 4 years/5.45 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/cap/

The biggest cap hit comes in year 4 at 1.7 million...which is still well under the 3.15 million paid for Burkhead this year.

All I was bringing attention to is the fact that NE has $10.45M invested in cap space for their 4 experienced RBs.  I said that I hadn't checked the value that the Bengals had invested in the position. 

I guess to expound upon the statement, I would ask;  Do you think that NE has done a good job of managing their cap space and stocking their RB squad?  How do you feel that compares with what the Bengals are doing?

(06-10-2017, 10:04 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: No offense but I hope he doesn't even see the field. He's such a candy ass. If he comes out blazing this year, it will mean he has been screwing the pooch for the last couple years and not giving it his all. Don't need puke like that on the field. Bad for the team. Feel this way about most players who explode in a contract year but mediocre at best before. No heart, just selfish individuals.

I'm hoping Burkhead has a fantastic career in NE. What a classy balls to the wall player. This dude always gives 110% and has my respect and admiration.

Yup

(06-10-2017, 02:11 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Pretty spot on.

That is why people don't bag on Gio as much as Hill.

Gio plays with heart and determination.

Hill probably just thinks he's a scapegoat and the fans won't give him a chance.

This season will be very telling of exactly what kind of player we have in Hill.

I hope to hell that the team doesn't have the same philosophy of "who ever they draft will probably be my backup".

Hill shouldn't be given the seniority card.  Since the more he's been here the less he's shown.

He just needs to shut his pie hole and produce.  Not just endzone TDs, but actual good YPC and conversion rates.

I'm probably one of the few that couldn't care less if they would've dumped Burkhead, Hill, Gio, and started fresh anyway.

If Mixon gets some real play time and produces I'd be happy to be done with both Hill & Gio.

That would mean the O-line is fine and it was a matter of talent at the RB position instead.

And that's just what I'm afraid is going to happen. Remember Marvin saying words to the effect of "Hill's our guy, we commited to him and we're gonna stay that way". And early last season when Paul G. said we we're going to put the youngster's in on D and Marvin shot that down.

(06-11-2017, 02:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: True. I can't disagree much with anything you say. I just hate seeing us waste a year of a RB's career (RB's have short careers) sitting behind a guy who will inevitably be gone next year. I'd rather get the future started right now, and see what we have.

Agreed

If Hill is still doing his stand behind the line and get 2 yards falling on the pile routine get his @$$ outta there quick !

(06-11-2017, 02:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: True. I can't disagree much with anything you say. I just hate seeing us waste a year of a RB's career (RB's have short careers) sitting behind a guy who will inevitably be gone next year. I'd rather get the future started right now, and see what we have.

With you 100%, but I don't think they will waste it.  If I had to wager, I would guess their strategy would be to start them splitting carries almost evenly, with a gradual increase of Mixon as the season goes on.  They need Mixon to be fresh for the end of the season run, so it will likely be running back by committee in the early going and even more so once Gio is up to speed.  That being said, I don't think they would stick with Hill for long if he is averaging something like 2.9 ypc, and Mixon is over 4.  

(06-09-2017, 01:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Burkhead and Andre Smith both have just above a $3 mill cap hit.
So would you rather...
1) Let Burkhead walk, sign Andre Smith, draft Joe Mixon
or
2) Re-sign Burkhead for same contract Pats did, draft Pat Elflein at 48 instead of Mixon?

(FWIW, I think Mixon will be a better RB than Burkhead)

Or you could have used some of the rollover money to sign him.

(06-12-2017, 12:42 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Or you could have used some of the rollover money to sign him.

Could have, but the case I presented is assuming that any remaining money is reserved for extensions. In fact, the Bengals have already spent more than they said they had available for FAs for 2017. So only offering the two options I listed makes the situation simpler by removing more variables.

(06-12-2017, 12:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Could have, but the case I presented is assuming that any remaining money is reserved for extensions. In fact, the Bengals have already spent more than they said they had available for FAs for 2017. So only offering the two options I listed makes the situation simpler by removing more variables.

True, but you left out the most obvious option considering it wasn't that big of a deal.

(06-12-2017, 12:50 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: True, but you left out the most obvious option considering it wasn't that big of a deal.

Disagree on the bolded partially, as that's subjective. We don't know how much the Bengals wanted to reserve for extensions, so an extra $3 mill for a RB could have been more than the Bengals were willing to take on. Therefore, the option wasn't included because that extra $3 million may have put them over their max limit willing to spend on FAs.
However, I definitely get where you are coming from in that $3 million isn't that much given the total and available cap. The Bengals had plenty of room to retain Burkhead and also sign Smith when looking at the available cap. We'll be able to have a better understanding of how much they truly ended up having left over though once some extensions are signed later this Summer.

When Burkhead ends up being like Peyton Hillis this entire thread is going to be rather interesting to revisit. It's like the hype around here when Armon Binns left and went to another team and was going to "break out" and be a star. I am extremely critical of this team in a lot of their decisions, but this is one where I don't think they got it wrong. Mixon will be better than Burkhead, and Hill can be that short yardage back that bangs ahead for a yard here and there. The team is banking on Gio who was re-signed prior to injury to come back healthy. Where did Burkhead fit in?

I mean this really shouldn't surprise anyone but the team moved on from him sure woulda rather had him gio and mixon instead of hill but it's over with

Yet we chose to keep garbage Hill

(06-11-2017, 06:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All I was bringing attention to is the fact that NE has $10.45M invested in cap space for their 4 experienced RBs.  I said that I hadn't checked the value that the Bengals had invested in the position. 

I guess to expound upon the statement, I would ask;  Do you think that NE has done a good job of managing their cap space and stocking their RB squad?  How do you feel that compares with what the Bengals are doing?

Different situations really. I think the Pats loaded up (signing 2 RBs and trading for Brandin Cooks) knowing that Brady is nearing the end. That said, generally I would say no I probably wouldn't prefer having $10 million invested at RB...unless there is a proven stud in there somewhere.

(06-12-2017, 08:12 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: With you 100%, but I don't think they will waste it.  If I had to wager, I would guess their strategy would be to start them splitting carries almost evenly, with a gradual increase of Mixon as the season goes on.  They need Mixon to be fresh for the end of the season run, so it will likely be running back by committee in the early going and even more so once Gio is up to speed.  That being said, I don't think they would stick with Hill for long if he is averaging something like 2.9 ypc, and Mixon is over 4.  

Good point about keeping him fresh for the stretch. Sometimes rookie RBs struggle down the stretch getting used to the longer NFL schedule. Just hope that Mixon is a huge factor this year, and that we are relevant down the stretch.

(06-12-2017, 09:39 PM)Trademark Wrote: Yet we chose to keep garbage Hill

Hill was under contract, Burkhead was an unrestricted FA. This isn't a kept one over the other.

First - Burkhead had the choice to leave...it's not like the Bengals could force him to stay against his will short of using the tag...and no..just no Burkhead is not the guy you tag.

Secondly - Hill being cut would = dead money and the team doesn't do that, not too mention this is a contract year and now Mixon is here. If there was ever a reason to be motivated, this is the season for Hill to be that guy.

Hill will most likely be gone at the end of this year when his rookie contract runs out, and then it will be Gio and Mixon and perhaps Tra Carson from the practice squad or whoever they pick up next but Burkhead was not in the long term plans and it's time we move on.

(06-12-2017, 10:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Different situations really. I think the Pats loaded up (signing 2 RBs and trading for Brandin Cooks) knowing that Brady is nearing the end. That said, generally I would say no I probably wouldn't prefer having $10 million invested at RB...unless there is a proven stud in there somewhere.


Good point about keeping him fresh for the stretch. Sometimes rookie RBs struggle down the stretch getting used to the longer NFL schedule. Just hope that Mixon is a huge factor this year, and that we are relevant down the stretch.

This team has to have a consistent, strong running game down the stretch to be relevant. No doubt. The lack of one has been an Achilles heel, though a few have placed the blame on the Oline more than the RB effort. It sure does seem we have talent and pedigree. We're still looking at things on paper however, so all we can do is hope until the turf starts flying. 

(06-09-2017, 02:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: If we kept Burkhead we weren't drafting Mixon, we would have waited a year. Letting Burkhead go for Mixon may end up being one of the best things we ever did looking back.

.....but why?  Just move on from Peerman, keep Rex, draft Mixon.  I thought the idea was to get the most talent you can on a roster, not play favorites.

(06-09-2017, 03:16 PM)3wt Wrote: Because I didn't like either.   I admit I don't know if those were truly the only two options we had, but if asked to choose one I'd have kept Mixon.  The guy's talent is ridiculous.

But I would rather have signed Dre, kept Rex and cut Hill if necessary - as long as we had the cap room.

And I think we would have based on what folks have been saying.   I mean if we definitely did not have the cap room - and I realize that would mean saving enough to sign Eifert and Tez down the road - I'd rather have had both Dre and Rex and let Hill go.

I think that may have cramped the cap a little, but mostly I think that they were not ready to throw the towel in on Hill yet.

This too.  If your plan was to get Mixon all along (and let's face it, not many other teams wanted him), then get rid of Hill.  Or, as I said earlier, why keep Peerman over Rex?

(06-09-2017, 03:48 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: We did have cap room for Rex, but I think Rex had no intention of re-signing here, which is why we didn't aggressively pursue him. He seemed to know that he was going to remain the #3 RB here, especially after Marvin endorsed Jeremy in the offseason.

Another in a long line of stupid Bengals moves.......

(06-15-2017, 09:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....but why?  Just move on from Peerman, keep Rex, draft Mixon.  I thought the idea was to get the most talent you can on a roster, not play favorites.

Too many assets tied up in one position. You'd have two guys on 2nd contracts plus a high draft pick. You wouldn't get enough return from all three to justify it. In a cap league you have to use draft picks and cap judiciously in order to sustain a solid roster top to bottom. We would have had Gio, Hill, and Burkhead already for the year. You can't also spend a 2nd round draft pick on that position, you have too many other needs at that point and the 3rd and 4th back will never get enough touches to justify it.

Not about favorites it's about smart roster management. Your not paying two guys "big" money plus bringing in a high draft pick so each one can touch the ball 10 times a game, that is a waste of resources. That is forgetting that you still have Jeremy Hill for the year on a "nothing" contract and he is one of the best redzone/goaline backs in the league.

(06-15-2017, 10:11 AM)Au165 Wrote: Too many assets tied up in one position. You'd have two guys on 2nd contracts plus a high draft pick. You wouldn't get enough return from all three to justify it. In a cap league you have to use draft picks and cap judiciously in order to sustain a solid roster top to bottom. We would have had Gio, Hill, and Burkhead already for the year. You can't also spend a 2nd round draft pick on that position, you have too many other needs at that point and the 3rd and 4th back will never get enough touches to justify it.

Not about favorites it's about smart roster management. Your not paying two guys "big" money plus bringing in a high draft pick so each one can touch the ball 10 times a game, that is a waste of resources. That is forgetting that you still have Jeremy Hill for the year on a "nothing" contract and he is one of the best redzone/goaline backs in the league.

I get that, and it makes good sense.  That said, they always preach the future, and the future is this:  Hill is a turd, most likely gone after this season, and Peerman is getting old, and he's a one trick pony.  In my opinion, you spend a little this year, then next year, Hill is gone, and Rex steps in to replace him AND Peerman, and your savings at the position work out.  You have a more dynamic utility guy behind two good backs, that can play on teams......and step in at WR in a pinch if need be.  Neither Peerman nor Hill can do that.

You'll have to refresh my memory, what are they paying Peerman?

EDIT: To be fair, I always found Rex to be vastly overrated on here.....but he wound up better than I gave him credit for. Still not as good as some have touted, but better than I thought, nonetheless.

(06-09-2017, 04:19 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: Meh.... He just isn't the right persuasion for a RB, or a second Rd pick. Some coaches aren't willing to admit that they make mistakes. Merv being one of those.

If you truly believe this "he just isn't the right persuasion" then why would they have draft Burkhead in the first place ? 

(06-15-2017, 11:28 AM)John Shaft Wrote: If you truly believe this "he just isn't the right persuasion" then why would they have draft Burkhead in the first place ? 

This conception isn't something that's new or revolutionary. It's on the same plane as a lack of black baseball players and white basketball players. Black golfers? It is what it is.

Ask yourself, how many white starting NFL RBs are there in today's NFL? Not many. It is what it is.

I'm a total live & let live kind of person. That said, Rex probably didn't get a fair shake while in Cincy. BB, will have us finding out the answer to that question soon enough.