Burkhead Making A Strong Impression in New England

[John Shaft]

(06-15-2017, 01:55 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: This conception isn't something that's new or revolutionary. It's on the same plane as a lack of black baseball players and white basketball players. Black golfers? It is what it is.

Ask yourself, how many white starting NFL RBs are there in today's NFL? Not many. It is what it is.

I'm a total live & let live kind of person. That said, Rex probably didn't get a fair shake while in Cincy. BB, will have us finding out the answer to that question soon enough.

You like totally didn't answer the question. Its all good.

[jowczarski]

I'll try to cycle through the entire thread but someone asked me over in the, well, 'ask me' section about Rex not returning messages, etc.

All I can say is that from what I understand, that is true to a degree. How pervasive that was (i.e. to every single player or coach) but it did occur.

As to why?

I believe that was the strategy his 'team' decided to employ once he became an unrestricted free agent. Every agent and player decides how to handle that differently. He went silent. And, he found a team that clearly likes that kind of thing even though on a day-to-day basis, I'd like to think he enjoyed talking with us.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-15-2017, 11:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: I get that, and it makes good sense.  That said, they always preach the future, and the future is this:  Hill is a turd, most likely gone after this season, and Peerman is getting old, and he's a one trick pony.  In my opinion, you spend a little this year, then next year, Hill is gone, and Rex steps in to replace him AND Peerman, and your savings at the position work out.  You have a more dynamic utility guy behind two good backs, that can play on teams......and step in at WR in a pinch if need be.  Neither Peerman nor Hill can do that.

This is exactly what I had hoped for...

You even touched on the point about them being such good receivers out of the backfield.  I will add that these three had similar versatility and the playbook is not paper-clipped open to just a few select pages when either of them is on the field.  I don't mean to dump everything at the feet of Hill, but his mere presence tips teams off as to what is coming.  Peerman I hardly even think of as a RB, just a special teams guy, albeit a good one.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-16-2017, 12:33 AM)jowczarski Wrote: I'll try to cycle through the entire thread but someone asked me over in the, well, 'ask me' section about Rex not returning messages, etc.

All I can say is that from what I understand, that is true to a degree. How pervasive that was (i.e. to every single player or coach) but it did occur.

As to why?

I believe that was the strategy his 'team' decided to employ once he became an unrestricted free agent. Every agent and player decides how to handle that differently. He went silent. And, he found a team that clearly likes that kind of thing even though on a day-to-day basis, I'd like to think he enjoyed talking with us.

That was me.  Thanks for responding, Jim.  I thought it might surprise some on here that it was like that.  Regardless of that being a strategy that the agent wanted to employ, I think the opinions of many that the Bengals didn't try to re-sign him is what I was trying to illustrate:  They weren't really given the opportunity, as I understand it.  

I liked Sexy a great deal.  He is a very versatile piece on the field and a great guy off the field, but I didn't like this strategy against the team that did draft you when every other team passed on him.

[HarleyDog]

(06-18-2017, 10:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That was me.  Thanks for responding, Jim.  I thought it might surprise some on here that it was like that.  Regardless of that being a strategy that the agent wanted to employ, I think the opinions of many that the Bengals didn't try to re-sign him is what I was trying to illustrate:  They weren't really given the opportunity, as I understand it.  

I liked Sexy a great deal.  He is a very versatile piece on the field and a great guy off the field, but I didn't like this strategy against the team that did draft you when every other team passed on him.

It's possible he just didn't want to be here anymore. He played with everything he had and carried a do or die type of mentality. Maybe he didn't see the possibilities of this team being a winner under ML and MB? Many careers have come and gone under those 2 without even a playoff win. So, if this is the case then I wont hold that against him. Sometimes silence is the best way to handle certain situations without causing a ruckus between fans and the team or wrong impressions against himself. Hard to tell? Anyway, I wish him much success in his career and hope Bill shows off his talent in ways that Marvin didn't recognize.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-18-2017, 11:31 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: It's possible he just didn't want to be here anymore. He played with everything he had and carried a do or die type of mentality. Maybe he didn't see the possibilities of this team being a winner under ML and MB? Many careers have come and gone under those 2 without even a playoff win. So, if this is the case then I wont hold that against him. Sometimes silence is the best way to handle certain situations without causing a ruckus between fans and the team or wrong impressions against himself. Hard to tell? Anyway, I wish him much success in his career and hope Bill shows off his talent in ways that Marvin didn't recognize.

I don't know.  I completely understand your point of view, and I have usually sided with the players that "exp;lore other options".  However, Burkhead wasn't held back from opportunities each and every season here.  He had a LOT of injuries that prevented him from getting opportunities early on.  The Bengals stood by him after using a 5th round pick on him.  He was given the opportunity to showcase his talents as a slot WR (where NE will likely use him a lot) in a playoff game no less. 

It isn't that I don't like Sexy any more, but I am disappointed that he didn't field their calls.  Agent-driven or otherwise.  That isn't how I would expect someone like him to do business.  If nothing else, maybe he could have driven up the asking price from the Pats?  When they wouldn't match the Bengals offer, it would have come out that the Bengals wanted to pay him more, but he wanted to go to New England.  At the very least, people wouldn't be saying how the Bengals didn't make an effort to sign him and they don't know talent. 

[Air Force 1]

Rex Burkhead plays for the Patriots now, so I really don't care what he does..But I'll say this, When you replace him with a player with the potential of Mixon, letting him go is an absolute "no brainer".

[Shake n Blake]

(06-15-2017, 09:39 AM)Wyche Wrote: This too.  If your plan was to get Mixon all along (and let's face it, not many other teams wanted him), then get rid of Hill.  Or, as I said earlier, why keep Peerman over Rex?

I never bought that report that only 4-5 teams had Mixon on their board. Maybe in the 1st or 2nd round...but if he kept slipping (I doubt he would've slipped much further), I have a feeling he suddenly would've magically reappeared on plenty of boards. It didn't benefit teams in any way to admit interest, with all the pre-draft negative press he was getting.

(06-15-2017, 10:11 AM)Au165 Wrote: Too many assets tied up in one position. You'd have two guys on 2nd contracts plus a high draft pick. You wouldn't get enough return from all three to justify it. In a cap league you have to use draft picks and cap judiciously in order to sustain a solid roster top to bottom. We would have had Gio, Hill, and Burkhead already for the year. You can't also spend a 2nd round draft pick on that position, you have too many other needs at that point and the 3rd and 4th back will never get enough touches to justify it.

Not about favorites it's about smart roster management. Your not paying two guys "big" money plus bringing in a high draft pick so each one can touch the ball 10 times a game, that is a waste of resources. That is forgetting that you still have Jeremy Hill for the year on a "nothing" contract and he is one of the best redzone/goaline backs in the league.

Pretty much this. Hill has a cap hit of 1.19 million this year, compared to 3.15 million for Burkhead. Why pay that much for Rex when (a) Mixon is clearly the future "bell cow" and (b) Rex won't be taking Gio's job as primary ball catcher out of the backfield? Hill is good enough to serve a placeholder or depth this year, and he comes much cheaper.

Now with all that said, I think we have somewhere around $16 million in cap space. So while in theory it's smart to not throw so much money into one position, not spending that money at all kinda makes it not matter.

(06-15-2017, 11:02 AM)Wyche Wrote: I get that, and it makes good sense.  That said, they always preach the future, and the future is this:  Hill is a turd, most likely gone after this season, and Peerman is getting old, and he's a one trick pony.  In my opinion, you spend a little this year, then next year, Hill is gone, and Rex steps in to replace him AND Peerman, and your savings at the position work out.  You have a more dynamic utility guy behind two good backs, that can play on teams......and step in at WR in a pinch if need be.  Neither Peerman nor Hill can do that.

You'll have to refresh my memory, what are they paying Peerman?

EDIT:  To be fair, I always found Rex to be vastly overrated on here.....but he wound up better than I gave him credit for.  Still not as good as some have touted, but better than I thought, nonetheless.

Peerman has a cap hit of 1.09 million this year. Assuming Rex would've taken a multi-year deal (he signed a 1 year deal) at around the same price, we'd be paying $1 million more for 1 less player. We typically carry 4 RB's though....

Fwiw, I'm with you on Rex being better than I thought but still not as good as some claim.

[grampahol]

Candy ass NFL running back?  That's a contradiction in terms if ever there was one. No, c'mon. Hill just isn't very good. I've known a lot of candy asses in my life, but someone willing to get tackled by several 300 lb NFL linemen doesn't fall into the candy ass category. I know there's no way in hell I'd ever try it, but then I'm 58 and 160 lbs so I'm safe. I guess I qualify as a candy ass. I can live with that. 

As for whatever reasons Hill just isn't cutting mustard and I'm pretty sure he's hearing Mixon's footsteps in his sleep and if he has a great season then I'll be tickled pink and then some. 
As for Rex he no longer plays for us so I won't be hoping for a great career for him in NE. I don't get all gooey over former Bengals once they leave. Once they leave in free agency I hope their careers fall into oblivion never to be heard from again, but that's just me. I hope WE win the super bowl and Rex, Peko and Whit all sit crying about leaving and regret ever leaving.  
Hey, I can dream as big as I want. It's MY fantasy..lol

[Au165]

(06-19-2017, 09:47 AM)grampahol Wrote: Candy ass NFL running back?  That's a contradiction in terms if ever there was one. No, c'mon. Hill just isn't very good. I've known a lot of candy asses in my life, but someone willing to get tackled by several 300 lb NFL linemen doesn't fall into the candy ass category. I know there's no way in hell I'd ever try it, but then I'm 58 and 160 lbs so I'm safe. I guess I qualify as a candy ass. I can live with that. 

As for whatever reasons Hill just isn't cutting mustard and I'm pretty sure he's hearing Mixon's footsteps in his sleep and if he has a great season then I'll be tickled pink and then some. 
As for Rex he no longer plays for us so I won't be hoping for a great career for him in NE. I don't get all gooey over former Bengals once they leave. Once they leave in free agency I hope their careers fall into oblivion never to be heard from again, but that's just me. I hope WE win the super bowl and Rex, Peko and Whit all sit crying about leaving and regret ever leaving.  
Hey, I can dream as big as I want. It's MY fantasy..lol

Hill actually could end up being a nice trade piece as the season gets going. Once Gio is back and Mixon is entrenched, if Hill showed like he was back to what he was you may be able to move him to a team who has an injury (which there will be multiple at that position). Cheap contract and still young a team may want first crack at getting him long term. I'd look to a team like the Colts maybe who are still trying to figure out their HB situation.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-18-2017, 01:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I never bought that report that only 4-5 teams had Mixon on their board. Maybe in the 1st or 2nd round...but if he kept slipping (I doubt he would've slipped much further), I have a feeling he suddenly would've magically reappeared on plenty of boards. It didn't benefit teams in any way to admit interest, with all the pre-draft negative press he was getting.





Peerman has a cap hit of 1.09 million this year. Assuming Rex would've taken a multi-year deal (he signed a 1 year deal) at around the same price, we'd be paying $1 million more for 1 less player. We typically carry 4 RB's though....

Fwiw, I'm with you on Rex being better than I thought but still not as good as some claim.

Maybe so, but the fact that Dalvin Cook went ahead of him is pretty telling, in my opinion.  I'm sure someone would have eventually taken a flyer on him.....but with the talent he's touted as having, falling to where he did speaks volumes.  There's no guarantee anyone would have taken him after us either.....

....but are you?  You're essentially eating up two spots, and two salaries to do the same thing that ONE player could do.

[3wt]

(06-20-2017, 09:50 AM)Wyche Wrote: Maybe so, but the fact that Dalvin Cook went ahead of him is pretty telling, in my opinion.  I'm sure someone would have eventually taken a flyer on him.....but with the talent he's touted as having, falling to where he did speaks volumes.  There's no guarantee anyone would have taken him after us either.....

....but are you?  You're essentially eating up two spots, and two salaries to do the same thing that ONE player could do.

I mean in the first place I think Dalvin Cook is a heck of a back.  His film makes me just drool.  

But as many and current are HIS issues, I don't think anyone wanted to be associated with the Mixon video.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-20-2017, 04:57 PM)3wt Wrote: I mean in the first place I think Dalvin Cook is a heck of a back.  His film makes me just drool.  

But as many and current are HIS issues, I don't think anyone wanted to be associated with the Mixon video.

I love Dalvin Cook, I'm a tad biased being a FSU fan, but I wanted him over Mixon, and I still do.

He had some dumb jock moments in the Garnet and Gold, but he wasn't on film.  That's where the outrage lies with Mixon.

[3wt]

(06-21-2017, 12:47 PM)Wyche Wrote: I love Dalvin Cook, I'm a tad biased being a FSU fan, but I wanted him over Mixon, and I still do.

He had some dumb jock moments in the Garnet and Gold, but he wasn't on film.  That's where the outrage lies with Mixon.

As far as pure running I think Cook was the best back in the draft.  He's just a stud.  He ALWAYS finds daylight.   I would have been very happy with him.

But he has a lot of fumbling issues, injuries and off the field stuff - albeit not as dramatic as what Mixon did.

Hopefully we made the right decision.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-23-2017, 06:46 PM)3wt Wrote: As far as pure running I think Cook was the best back in the draft.  He's just a stud.  He ALWAYS finds daylight.   I would have been very happy with him.

But he has a lot of fumbling issues, injuries and off the field stuff - albeit not as dramatic as what Mixon did.

Hopefully we made the right decision.

Yep.....electrifying comes to mind as a good adjective when watching Cook.

[Pat5775]

(06-26-2017, 03:21 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yep.....electrifying comes to mind as a good adjective when watching Cook.

Yep, I wanted Cook over Mixon as well. But once Minnesota jumped up and grabbed him I knew what was coming with our pick. I didn't hate the Mixon pick, but I didn't love it either. I really hope it works out for the best but I wouldn't be shocked if Cook has a better career

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-26-2017, 03:33 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Yep, I wanted Cook over Mixon as well. But once Minnesota jumped up and grabbed him I knew what was coming with our pick. I didn't hate the Mixon pick, but I didn't love it either. I really hope it works out for the best but I wouldn't be shocked if Cook has a better career

My feelings pretty much verbatim....although I was a little upset draft night over taking Mixon.  Well.....maybe a lot upset.

[Au165]

(06-26-2017, 04:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: My feelings pretty much verbatim....although I was a little upset draft night over taking Mixon.  Well.....maybe a lot upset.

Cook could very well be Aaron Hernandez, obviously odds are low but there have been comparisons to their college "inner circles". He was linked to some really bad dudes down in Florida is the rumor I heard which is what scared a lot of people off. He said he was leaving all those things behind in Florida, but it definitely scared some teams.

Talented guy for sure though, I think he will have a nice career in Minnesota. I do question his ability to run in could weather as he has never done it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-26-2017, 05:37 PM)Au165 Wrote: Cook could very well be Aaron Hernandez, obviously odds are low but there have been comparisons to their college "inner circles". He was linked to some really bad dudes down in Florida is the rumor I heard which is what scared a lot of people off. He said he was leaving all those things behind in Florida, but it definitely scared some teams.

Hernandez' problems stemmed from people back in Connecticut that were involved in gangs.  I don't think the kid will murder anyone, but you never know.  Hernandez is a strange case.....coming from a suburban household with a father, then getting into stuff like that.....Cook comes from a hard life in the streets of Miami with a single mother, then a grandmother.

Some unsavory characters were around him, but never a double shooting and brawl like Hernandez.

Here's an interesting read on him.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/25/nfl-draft-dalvin-cook-red-flags-character-concerns-scouts-florida-state-miami-dade

[Whatever]

(06-26-2017, 05:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: Hernandez' problems stemmed from people back in Connecticut that were involved in gangs.  I don't think the kid will murder anyone, but you never know.  Hernandez is a strange case.....coming from a suburban household with a father, then getting into stuff like that.....Cook comes from a hard life in the streets of Miami with a single mother, then a grandmother.

Some unsavory characters were around him, but never a double shooting and brawl like Hernandez.

Here's an interesting read on him.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/04/25/nfl-draft-dalvin-cook-red-flags-character-concerns-scouts-florida-state-miami-dade

Hernandez shot a guy while at Florida, but the victim later recanted the part about Hernandez being the trigger man.  Now, Cook hasn't shot anybody, to my knowledge, but Hernandez was off the rails and out of control in college.