There's really nothing clear about what happens behind the scenes.

Generally it's the coordinators that make the adjustments.  I've seen Guenther make changes in the game plan effectively.  My gut is that that is not one of Z's strengths.   His game plans have been really nice.  But once a team adjusts to us we do not seem to compensate.   It think the defense makes good in game adjustments.

The offense may be compromised by Marvin - I don't really know.  But I know that Marvin has allegedly been quoted as telling (Brat I think) that he wants us do send in run plays exclusively.   When I watch the Patriots and the Steelers, I do not see that kind of rigid play calling.   I see them continuing to game plan and be aggressive in their play calling.

They do not typically sit on a lead.

Last year we had a really good game plan going in.  The Pats went into the locker room and came out with a different game plan.  And they did not stop hammering us till the end of the game.  

What killed us most in that game was that we did not have the personnel to deal with the Patriot's change in game plan.  Their tight ends ate us alive.

So I apologize for going all over the place.  But I do believe our coordinators try to make adjustments - sometimes very successfully - especially on defense, I don't think Marvin is aggressive enough when we're ahead and we had some serious deficiencies in personnel last year.

(06-20-2017, 02:17 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I think a very obvious reason why is because Marvin doesn't make adjustments when clearly needed. We can see it and it really can't be argued. 

Like I said, I really can't tell when NFL teams make in-game adjustments.  I am not that good at analyzing the games.  But I look forward to the gameday threads here where you all point out these details to me.

For example 3WT just mentione the Patriots game last year.  What eaxctly did the Pats change, and what 
should Marvin have done to counter their move?

(06-20-2017, 02:17 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: I realize you're new here, and given your defense of Marv you'll be hearing a lot about Fred and drawing a lot of comparisons to him. He's currently on a temporary ban but given your thoughts, your response and some of the language you use... I think you may know exactly who Fred is 

So this guy got banned for defending Marvin?

I don't want to get in any trouble here.  What do you mean by "the language I use"?  Did I say something wrong?  I just found it surprisong that so many of you thought that Marvin never made any in-game adjustments.

(06-20-2017, 05:21 PM)3wt Wrote: There's really nothing clear about what happens behind the scenes.

Generally it's the coordinators that make the adjustments.  I've seen Guenther make changes in the game plan effectively.  My gut is that that is not one of Z's strengths.   His game plans have been really nice.  But once a team adjusts to us we do not seem to compensate.   It think the defense makes good in game adjustments.

The offense may be compromised by Marvin - I don't really know.  But I know that Marvin has allegedly been quoted as telling (Brat I think) that he wants us do send in run plays exclusively.   When I watch the Patriots and the Steelers, I do not see that kind of rigid play calling.   I see them continuing to game plan and be aggressive in their play calling.

They do not typically sit on a lead.

Last year we had a really good game plan going in.  The Pats went into the locker room and came out with a different game plan.  And they did not stop hammering us till the end of the game.  

What killed us most in that game was that we did not have the personnel to deal with the Patriot's change in game plan.  Their tight ends ate us alive.

So I apologize for going all over the place.  But I do believe our coordinators try to make adjustments - sometimes very successfully - especially on defense, I don't think Marvin is aggressive enough when we're ahead and we had some serious deficiencies in personnel last year.

Great points. Can't forgot that Marv completely overrode Paul Guenther when he wanted to make some personnel changes last year either. Also, Brat used to call the plays, but Marv told him what types of plays to run as evidenced by 2009 Hard Knocks (there was a short clip where Marv told Brat to call three run plays up the middle). 

(06-20-2017, 05:43 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Like I said, I really can't tell when NFL teams make in-game adjustments.  I am not that good at analyzing the games.  But I look forward to the gameday threads here where you all point out these details to me.

For example 3WT just mentione the Patriots game last year.  What eaxctly did the Pats change, and what 
should Marvin have done to counter their move?

You'll see what we're talking about at some point next season, I'm sure... But I hope it doesn't come to that, of course. In that patriots game we just got straight up beat by a far superior team. There was nothing about that game where the playcalling or schemes were the issue. 

(06-20-2017, 05:49 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: So this guy got banned for defending Marvin?

I don't want to get in any trouble here.  What do you mean by "the language I use"?  Did I say something wrong?  I just found it surprisong that so many of you thought that Marvin never made any in-game adjustments.

If this is Fred I'll let you have this until your ban is up. If this profile is still active after, I'll eat some crow (but I'll remain skeptical) .

Fred is a notorious pot-stirrer who constantly went against what the masses generally agreed with here. Just to stir up some drama. He's a legitimate contrarian who I believe is a troll looking to get a rise out of folks. You didn't do that. obviously. But you did interpret a direct quote from Marv as something other than what he obviously meant and went out of your way to defend him... That's Fred to a T.

(06-20-2017, 10:23 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: But you did interpret a direct quote from Marv as something other than what he obviously meant and went out of your way to defend him.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.  Nothing about the comment Marvin made indicated that he nevere attempts to make in game adjustments.  All Marvin said was that their late game problems were due more to poor execution than not making any in-game adjustments.  He never claimed he made no adjustments.  He just said they were not the main problem

I am new here and don't want to start a fight.  But you claimed that Marvin does not make any adjustments and also does not think other teams make in-game adjustments.  As I said before, all it takes is a little google to find multiple quotes by bengal players and coaches talking about in-game adjustments made by both them and their opponents.  

 

(06-20-2017, 11:27 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.  Nothing about the comment Marvin made indicated that he nevere attempts to make in game adjustments.  All Marvin said was that their late game problems were due more to poor execution than not making any in-game adjustments.  He never claimed he made no adjustments.  He just said they were not the main problem

I am new here and don't want to start a fight.  But you claimed that Marvin does not make any adjustments and also does not think other teams make in-game adjustments.  As I said before, all it takes is a little google to find multiple quotes by bengal players and coaches talking about in-game adjustments made by both them and their opponents.  

Disagree if you'd like, I guess that quote can be interpreted in a couple of ways. But I think you're only fooling yourself. I'd also like to believe Marvin knows what he's doing and always makes adjustments but... I just don't see it.

Many of us have seen countless times that Marvin is, at the very least, terrible at making adjustments. I'm not hellbent on proving the team doesn't make adjustments nor am I saying they don't. In fact, I've already said that and you apparently don't want to acknowledge it (or provide the source that says we've been one of the better comeback teams since 2011. I'd like to see exactly what qualifies as your and/or their definition of a "comeback win"). Once again, it's just plain asinine Marvin said that adjustments are "more journalistic jargon than anything". Adjustments are not mere jargon, they are very real indeed.

I'm not looking for a fight either but at this point all your doing is nitpicking and arguing over a quote. The bigger issue is that Marvin finds ways to lose, especially in Primetime and playoffs, and we're still stuck him. I'm sick of arguing over the adjustment issue and typing the same thing over and over. Many of us have seen several games where we were on fire in the first quarter or first half, only to inexplicably fall apart in the late stages of games. Somebody adjusted, somebody else didn't or did a poor job trying. 

I guess I should have asked this earlier: are you happy with Marv as head coach?

(06-20-2017, 10:23 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Great points. Can't forgot that Marv completely overrode Paul Guenther when he wanted to make some personnel changes last year either. Also, Brat used to call the plays, but Marv told him what types of plays to run as evidenced by 2009 Hard Knocks (there was a short clip where Marv told Brat to call three run plays up the middle). 

Yep.  That's what I was talking about exactly.   Just seems too simplistic, and offense is not really Marvin's forte.




You'll see what we're talking about at some point next season, I'm sure... But I hope it doesn't come to that, of course. In that patriots game we just got straight up beat by a far superior team. There was nothing about that game where the playcalling or schemes were the issue. 






If this is Fred I'll let you have this until your ban is up. If this profile is still active after, I'll eat some crow (but I'll remain skeptical) .

Fred is a notorious pot-stirrer who constantly went against what the masses generally agreed with here. Just to stir up some drama. He's a legitimate contrarian who I believe is a troll looking to get a rise out of folks. You didn't do that. obviously. But you did interpret a direct quote from Marv as something other than what he obviously meant and went out of your way to defend him... That's Fred to a T.

Dr. Bombay does sound a lot like Fred, not sure if it is him but does sound a lot like him.

To call adjustments journalistic jargon is extremly stupid to me. Adjustments are probably the biggest deal in football.

It is not if you get hit, it is when you get hit if you get back up. Sounds like Rocky i know, but we have seen it seems like
dozens of games where we are up or in the game and just fold. This is on Marv for the most part as he is the Head Coach.

Last year when Guenther was going to change things up and Marv stabbed him in the back was a prime example.

(06-20-2017, 05:43 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Like I said, I really can't tell when NFL teams make in-game adjustments.  I am not that good at analyzing the games.  But I look forward to the gameday threads here where you all point out these details to me.

For example 3WT just mentione the Patriots game last year.  What eaxctly did the Pats change, and what 
should Marvin have done to counter their move?

In this case they started hammering us with their tight ends and we couldn't stop them.  That was not really Marvin's fault, that was a case where we just did not have the personnel to stop them.  Our linebackers could not cover them and they destroyed us.   We played a pretty darn good first half.  And if I recall we did not have AJ Green playing that day.  But when the Pats came out in the 2nd half they started gunning to Gronk and Bennett and we simply could not stop them.

I don't recall if they made adjustments to stop our offense, but they probably made adjustments, and we were missing both Eifert and Green - so again personnel had something to do with the outcome.

My connection to making adjustments was to the Pats who DID make effective adjustments and ran away with the game.

(06-21-2017, 01:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is not if you get hit, it is when you get hit if you get back up. Sounds like Rocky i know, but we have seen it seems like dozens of games where we are up or in the game and just fold. This is on Marv for the most part as he is the Head Coach.

Recently read this on another Bengal site.

"Since 2011 the Bengals are 9th in the league in come from behind victories (31). but that does not tell the entire story.  The Bengas also have the 7th best winning percentage in games in which they trailed at some point (.464).

 Only five teams in the league have both more come-from behind victories and a better winning percentage in games where they trailed.  For example the Dolphins have one more come from behind victory, but 15 more losses in games where they trailed for only a .386 winning percentage."




If you blame Marvin for "folding" then doesn't he also deserve all of the credit for this excellent come from behind record?

(06-21-2017, 05:34 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Recently read this on another Bengal site.

"Since 2011 the Bengals are 9th in the league in come from behind victories (31). but that does not tell the entire story.  The Bengas also have the 7th best winning percentage in games in which they trailed at some point (.464).

 Only five teams in the league have both more come-from behind victories and a better winning percentage in games where they trailed.  For example the Dolphins have one more come from behind victory, but 15 more losses in games where they trailed for only a .386 winning percentage."




If you blame Marvin for "folding" then doesn't he also deserve all of the credit for this excellent come from behind record?

I think is falls on everyone to perform all 4 quarters. Game plans change, and I personally, have been accustom for the game to keep carrying on, and I have been surprised a few times. I think when certain plays are on the line, they are an 'inside the box' kind of plays, where other teams/coaches gamble, Marvin gambled maybe 4 times and has a 50% w/l on his 'out of the box' chances. He's played it safer in more times than often - that you have to admit.

(06-20-2017, 05:21 PM)3wt Wrote:  The Pats went into the locker room and came out with a different game plan.  And they did not stop hammering us till the end of the game.  

What killed us most in that game was that we did not have the personnel to deal with the Patriot's change in game plan.  Their tight ends ate us alive.

The Patriots did not change their game plan.  They threw to their TEs in the first half.  That was no adjustment.

(06-21-2017, 05:34 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Recently read this on another Bengal site.

"Since 2011 the Bengals are 9th in the league in come from behind victories (31). but that does not tell the entire story.  The Bengas also have the 7th best winning percentage in games in which they trailed at some point (.464).

 Only five teams in the league have both more come-from behind victories and a better winning percentage in games where they trailed.  For example the Dolphins have one more come from behind victory, but 15 more losses in games where they trailed for only a .386 winning percentage."




If you blame Marvin for "folding" then doesn't he also deserve all of the credit for this excellent come from behind record?

You sound so much like Fred man it isn't funny.

0-7 is Marv's percentage when it matters.

Sure, Marv is good at putting a talented team together and winning in the regular season but in big games his teams choke
all the time with different coordinators, QB's, WR's and Defenses. Hell even with the great Zim he couldn't pull off a playoff
win. Plus he sucks against the Steelers, which cannot happen against your Division rival. Have to atleast split with them.

(06-22-2017, 07:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote:  in big games his teams choke all the time with different coordinators, QB's, WR's and Defenses. Hell even with the great Zim he couldn't pull off a playoff win.

And none of those different coordinators, QBs, WRs and defenses have won anything anywhere else they have played or coached.

The "great Zim" was a DC for 8 seasons before coming to the Bengals and only made the playoffs once.  With Marvin he made it 4 out of 6 years.

(06-23-2017, 01:04 AM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: And none of those different coordinators, QBs, WRs and defenses have won anything anywhere else they have played or coached.

The "great Zim" was a DC for 8 seasons before coming to the Bengals and only made the playoffs once.  With Marvin he made it 4 out of 6 years.

I want to see Zimmer in the playoffs with the Vikes when Marv is not around. Bet his team plays much better and doesn't
have that deer in the headlights look when shit happens. Fred, like i have said many times and will say once again, Marv is
very good at putting a talented roster together, he is one of the best at this but his teams consistently choke once they get
in the Playoffs and this is not a coincidence.

(06-23-2017, 12:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I want to see Zimmer in the playoffs with the Vikes when Marv is not around. Bet his team plays much better and doesn't have that deer in the headlights look when shit happens.

The only time Zim's Vikings made the playoffs they blew a two score lead in the fourth quarter.

(06-23-2017, 12:52 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I want to see Zimmer in the playoffs with the Vikes when Marv is not around. Bet his team plays much better and doesn't
have that deer in the headlights look when shit happens. Fred, like i have said many times and will say once again, Marv is
very good at putting a talented roster together, he is one of the best at this but his teams consistently choke once they get
in the Playoffs and this is not a coincidence.

Since it's pretty obvious that Dr Bombay is Fred (or someone on the same spectrum as Fred), I think it's best to simply not feed the Fred... Or, feed the Bombay or whatever.

He's back to his old ways. He's trolling, trying to get a rise out of people. Just ignore him. Don't give him the satisfaction. 

Besides, during our struggle last season Fred couldn't help himself and became candid, saying something like "maybe Marv should go". He's not a Marv fan, hell I doubt he was even really a Chuck Bresnahan fan. He knows damn well Marv is not the guy to get us to a super bowl, he's just being a contrarian and playing devils advocate because it's fun for him. 

Let him throw out any BS he wants, let him try to use his mental gymnastics when he applies stats, just keep on scrolling. Odds are he'll get himself banned again soon anyway.

(06-20-2017, 05:21 PM)3wt Wrote:  But I know that Marvin has allegedly been quoted as telling (Brat I think) that he wants us do send in run plays exclusively.   When I watch the Patriots and the Steelers, I do not see that kind of rigid play calling.   I see them continuing to game plan and be aggressive in their play calling.

What game was this were we never threw the ball?

(06-23-2017, 10:58 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Let him throw out any BS he wants, let him try to use his mental gymnastics when he applies stats, just keep on scrolling. Odds are he'll get himself banned again soon anyway.

Do they really ban people around here just for not agreeing with the majority?

Or using facts and statistics to prove a point?

(06-23-2017, 11:43 PM)Dr. Bombay Wrote: Do they really ban people around here just for not agreeing with the majority?

Or using facts and statistics to prove a point?

As if you don't know


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