That, and not asking hall to restructure his contract were two head scratching moves from the Bengals this offseason.

Peko will make 3.7 million and was one of the worst DTS in the game last year. PFF had him in the bottom 5% of the league, so I wonder what the thought process in keeping him here was.

Hall...is in jeopardy of losing his job. Had the Bengals asked him to take a 50% pay cut or he'd be released, he would have taken the 3.8 million for the season. He never would have received more than that if he were cut.

Instead hall is going to be making 7.7 million and Peko 3.7. I see that as a waste of 7.5 million. Nick Fairley was signed for 5 million.

I'm asking cause I honestly see no value in how they played both players final year in stripes

Peko played much better than PFF gave him credit for. Shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is still a very important skill set for DTs and Peko was among the league leaders in tackles by a DT.

If Hall were released some team would pay him very well. He may not start, but he will still play over 50% of the snaps as our #3 CB. That is a very valuable position.

Fairley has never played a full season in his entire career, has had off field problems, and has never consistently played up to his potential.

(08-06-2015, 10:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Peko played much better than PFF gave him credit for.  Shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is still a very important skill set for DTs and Peko was among the league leaders in tackles by a DT.  

If Hall were released some team would pay him very well.  He may not start, but he will still play over 50% of the snaps as our #3 CB.  That is a very valuable position.

Fairley has never played a full season in his entire career, has had off field problems, and has never consistently played up to his potential.

So the stats and grades and evaluations are all wrong? And you're right?

Doubtful

I really think Peko will be the odd man out this year.

(08-06-2015, 11:01 PM)magikod Wrote: I really think Peko will be the odd man out this year.

He's better than Still and Hunt.  I can't see Peko getting cut.  Look at how long they kept Geathers around.

(08-06-2015, 10:27 PM)Blake2Pickens Wrote: So the stats and grades and evaluations are all wrong?  And you're right?

Doubtful

Le sigh....
Fred is right.

I wouldn't say Peko is a star, but he is steady. Not everyone on the team can be a star. Same with Hall (currently). Solid, but nothing spectacular.

(08-06-2015, 10:12 PM)Blake2Pickens Wrote: That, and not asking hall to restructure his contract were two head scratching moves from the Bengals this offseason.

Peko will make 3.7 million and was one of the worst DTS in the game last year. PFF had him in the bottom 5% of the league, so I wonder what the thought process in keeping him here was.

Hall...is in jeopardy of losing his job.  Had the Bengals asked him to take a 50% pay cut or he'd be released, he would have taken the 3.8 million for the season.  He never would have received more than that if he were cut.

Instead hall is going to be making 7.7 million and Peko 3.7.  I see that as a waste of 7.5 million. Nick Fairley was signed for 5 million.

I'm asking cause I honestly see no value in how they played both players final year in stripes

Umm... Because he's the best NT on our team.

Is this question a joke or something?

(08-06-2015, 11:01 PM)magikod Wrote: I really think Peko will be the odd man out this year.

That's just dumb.

Well Peko is a nose tackle while Fairley  is a 3 technique.So I am not sure even if we signed Fairley we would have released Peko. I don't think Peko is a great player but he has a nonstop motor and still makes plenty of stops and tackles (according to PFF he was ranked 19th in stops and 12th in tackles for DTs). Also Having Geno Atkins back to himself will help everyone out on the defensive line.

It's not so much as cutting him for me, but we have done nothing to push him or get younger at the nose.

We have like 4 natural 3Ts and maybe 2 could play nose along with Peko.

I don't think he'll see the final year of his deal in 2017, it'd be a good bet to expect a heir to be drafted this upcoming draft.

(08-07-2015, 12:39 AM)J24 Wrote: Also Having Geno Atkins back to himself will help everyone out on the defensive line.

Exactly, Geno Makes the whole defense better.
Maybe teams will try triple teams on him this year. I have been reading that our o-line can't stop him.

(08-06-2015, 10:27 PM)Blake2Pickens Wrote: So the stats and grades and evaluations are all wrong?  And you're right?

Doubtful

It's called a Fred Fact. 

(08-06-2015, 10:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Peko played much better than PFF gave him credit for.  Shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is still a very important skill set for DTs and Peko was among the league leaders in tackles by a DT.  

If Hall were released some team would pay him very well.  He may not start, but he will still play over 50% of the snaps as our #3 CB.  That is a very valuable position.

Fairley has never played a full season in his entire career, has had off field problems, and has never consistently played up to his potential.

What they give him "credit" for? They formed that decision due to numbers. Numbers dont lie buddy

(08-06-2015, 10:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Peko played much better than PFF gave him credit for.  Shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is still a very important skill set for DTs and Peko was among the league leaders in tackles by a DT.  

The numbers may not lie, but Mark Twain reminds us that there are "lies, damn lies, and statistics." Was John Stockton a great basketball player? Based on his points per game, you'd think not. But based on the number of points per game he was responsible for with his assists, there's no doubt.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Peko is a Hall of Famer, but there are reasons why Zimmer and Guenther value him so much. It's not just a matter of the number of blocks he sheds; it more about the number of blocks he eats up and the number of holes he just clogs up, leaving other guys free to make plays. It kind of reflects his role as a total team player on this roster.

That's the only reason I can figure out for understanding why he's so valued. It's not just his leadership qualities. 

(08-07-2015, 03:10 AM)Element Wrote: What they give him "credit" for? They formed that decision due to numbers. Numbers dont lie buddy

They form that decision by a subjective opinion that they assign numbers to. Mike Zimmer has said he (Peko) is the best at what he does in the entire NFL, and that was even after he was gone. Zimmer has also said the problem with PFF is they have no clue what a guy is supposed to do on any given play. They can make an educated guess, but they don't know.

I am going to side with Mike Zimmer....

(08-06-2015, 10:27 PM)Blake2Pickens Wrote: So the stats and grades and evaluations are all wrong?  And you're right?

Doubtful

(08-07-2015, 03:06 AM)Utts Wrote: It's called a Fred Fact. 

(08-07-2015, 03:10 AM)Element Wrote: What they give him "credit" for? They formed that decision due to numbers. Numbers dont lie buddy

Peko was 7th in the league in tackles among DT/NTs.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&season=2014&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

How is that not a fact?

Another fact is that DTs that get blocked don't make tackles.  Shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is a very important skill for DTs, and Peko is still among the best in the league at this.

Total tackles is not the only way to grade DTs, but it also can not be ignored.  DTs that constantly get blown up and blocked off the ball don't make tackles.

(08-07-2015, 09:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Peko was 7th in the league in tackles among DT/NTs.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&season=2014&seasonType=REG&experience=&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Go

How is that not a fact?

Another fact is that DTs that get blocked don't make tackles.  Shedding blockers and getting to the ball carrier is a very important skill for DTs, and Peko is still among the best in the league at this.

Total tackles is not the only way to grade DTs, but it also can not be ignored.  DTs that constantly get blown up and blocked off the ball don't make tackles.

Okay, let's put it this way. NOTE: ***these aren't actual figures (for the first part), I'm just using these as an example to prove a point, so don't flip out about the exact figures because I'm making them up for my example***

NT1: 800 snaps. 50 tackles. When he isn't making one of his 50 tackles during the year, he's usually getting blown up badly and pushed heavily off the LOS, leading to the offense having more success.

NT2: 800 snaps. 40 tackles. When he isn't making one of his 40 tackles during the year, he's still in position and winning his matchup a reasonable percentage of the time. He rarely gets blown off the line and while he isn't leading the league in tackles, he's not getting beaten enough to directly correlate to the offense making big plays.

Which NT do you want on your team? NT1 is similar to how Peko has played over the last 1-2 years. I'm not saying he's always been a mediocre or worse NT, I'll admit that he used to be pretty good. Over the past 2 years, he's been below average and I don't understand why you debate that so much.

Fred, you love facts, so here are 2 facts that you may enjoy. Here are some real numbers from last year....

1. In 2014, the Bengals defensive line ranked 27th in the league in letting opposing ball carriers get to the 2nd level.

2. In 2014, the Bengals defensive line ranked 26th in YPC up the middle.

Are those the signs of having a good NT?? Ironically enough, it seems that most of the teams ranked highly in those categories have very good NTs. If you think total tackles tell part of the story, I'd hope that you're willing to admit that those figures tell part of it as well.

(08-06-2015, 10:12 PM)Blake2Pickens Wrote: That, and not asking hall to restructure his contract were two head scratching moves from the Bengals this offseason.

Peko will make 3.7 million and was one of the worst DTS in the game last year. PFF had him in the bottom 5% of the league, so I wonder what the thought process in keeping him here was.

Hall...is in jeopardy of losing his job.  Had the Bengals asked him to take a 50% pay cut or he'd be released, he would have taken the 3.8 million for the season.  He never would have received more than that if he were cut.

Instead hall is going to be making 7.7 million and Peko 3.7.  I see that as a waste of 7.5 million. Nick Fairley was signed for 5 million.

I'm asking cause I honestly see no value in how they played both players final year in stripes

I think Peko is a great person and leader and he's a guy I'd love to see the bengals offer some type of coaching job or mentor job outside of this he just isn't very good and he doesn't offer any thing that should keep him on the playing field, unfortunately the bengals staff have this mentality that rookies shouldn't play over veterans and that they should keep players who have been with the team for a long time on the field, there is a reason why we can't get over the hump and it is the coaches not realizing how to put the best players out there. Look at the patriots and how they take a team approach, no one player is the team they cut whoever whenever even if they are good players or solid vets. The bengals need to start doing this, peko, rey m. both need to be replaced they are mediocre at best, as far as hall he needs to be restructured, he's on the tail end of his career but could still offer some solid play especially if he plays safety at times and comes of the bench as our number 4 cb.

I doubt Peko gets cut. However, if any DT (young, undrafted, or otherwise) outplays him during the preseason, they deserve a fair shot at his spot. We can't keep cutting good DT prospects to save his spot. Just not smart business. Financial or otherwise. I like Peko, and he's a great locker room guy, but loyalty doesn't win championships.