The media is so full of shit and up the Steelers' asses that it's impossible to take them seriously!

Case-in-point:

Here is ProFootballTalk saying that Joey Porter called out Big Ben in 2005, and that Ben needed to "grow up fast" and "become one of us."

The reason that's hilarious is that they're suggesting that it caused Ben to mature and grow up, but yet the rape allegations were AFTER THAT in 2010 and 2012, which, even if you ignore the fact that Ben's guilty of rape in those two instances, would a man who has "grown up" really have his bodyguards lead a college girl into a bathroom to have sex in a public bar or have sex with a hotel worker after he asked her to his room to "fix his TV"?

So what change did Porter spark in Ben?

The media's a joke and just assumes that we all forget everything and that we're too stupid to see through their bullshit.

Their both stools and don't deserve a heartbeat.

why

If only the Bengals had someone in their organization who was willing to tell their players to grow up.

That said, this is a direct line from the article:

"Some would argue that the change was neither immediate nor permanent, but the anecdote from Arians confirms that Roethlisberger was once on the Ryan Leaf track and that, to Roethlisberger’s credit, he changed. Eventually if not immediately."

The author is merely reporting on an anecdote and takes it with a grain of salt.

(07-12-2017, 09:06 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: If only the Bengals had someone in their organization who was willing to tell their players to grow up.

That said, this is a direct line from the article:

"Some would argue that the change was neither immediate nor permanent, but the anecdote from Arians confirms that Roethlisberger was once on the Ryan Leaf track and that, to Roethlisberger’s credit, he changed. Eventually if not immediately."

The author is merely reporting on an anecdote and takes it with a grain of salt.

He also seems to be focused primarily on Ben's maturity in the locker room and towards his team mates. That's an area in which one could argue he DID grow in those next few years, even if other areas of his personal growth were stalled.

(07-12-2017, 09:26 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: He also seems to be focused primarily on Ben's maturity in the locker room and towards his team mates. That's an area in which one could argue he DID grow in those next few years, even if other areas of his personal growth were stalled.

Yea, context is important. I mean, he is a rapist, but he's apparently a better teammate now too.

That's *Jerry* Porter to you sir.....

(07-12-2017, 10:56 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, context is important. I mean, he is a rapist, but he's apparently a better teammate now too.

After all, Arian's relationship to Roethlisberger was as his coach, not his pastor. It only makes sense that he would speak to the side of him he knew best.

(07-12-2017, 10:56 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Yea, context is important. I mean, he is a rapist, but he's apparently a better teammate now too.

Maturity in the locker room and maturity in general aren't mutually exclusive.

(07-22-2017, 12:19 PM)THE Bigzoman Wrote: Maturity in the locker room and maturity in general aren't mutually exclusive.

Exactly......  he can act like a leader and a professional in the locker room, but that doesn't prevent him from having his bodyguards force drunk college girls into restrooms and having sex with them against their will.

(07-22-2017, 04:35 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Exactly......  he can act like a leader and a professional in the locker room, but that doesn't prevent him from having his bodyguards force drunk college girls into restrooms and having sex with them against their will.

I think most people would agree that it was at the very least a moral failure for him to have been in that situation, whether the allegations are true or not. But my point (which you are sidestepping as usual), is that your criticism of the 'Steeler-biases' media is off base. If Arians was his pastor and the outlet that printed the story a more general news source, you might have a point. But it was a sports story quoting a coach. And in that context it was not nearly as ridiculous as you originally suggested.

(07-25-2017, 10:21 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: I think most people would agree that it was at the very least a moral failure for him to have been in that situation, whether the allegations are true or not.  But my point (which you are sidestepping as usual), is that your criticism of the 'Steeler-biases' media is off base.  If Arians was his pastor and the outlet that printed the story a more general news source, you might have a point.  But it was a sports story quoting a coach.  And in that context it was not nearly as ridiculous as you originally suggested.

Say you have a boss or coworker who you see out at the bar every night, shows up late to work because he's hungover, and misses days of work because he's been in jail for public intoxication or DUI, can you still say he's a good boss and good leader?  

That rings even more true for athletes like Ben, whose actions are magnified in the news.

A leader wouldn't do those things and compromise the integrity of his team or his ability to be on the field due to suspensions for raping college girls.

So, yes, it is as ridiculous as I claimed.

(07-25-2017, 11:19 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Say you have a boss or coworker who you see out at the bar every night, shows up late to work because he's hungover, and misses days of work because he's been in jail for public intoxication or DUI, can you still say he's a good boss and good leader?  

That rings even more true for athletes like Ben, whose actions are magnified in the news.

A leader wouldn't do those things and compromise the integrity of his team or his ability to be on the field due to suspensions for raping college girls.

So, yes, it is as ridiculous as I claimed.

If that's the way you see it, you'd better give up on the league. The Steelers aren't the only team for whom money (and a chance at winning) talks. You can pretend that the Bengals are immune to that sort of thing but you're only fooling yourself. It you were really as morally outraged as you pretend to be, you wouldn't even be a football fan anymore.

(07-25-2017, 02:36 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: If that's the way you see it, you'd better give up on the league. The Steelers aren't the only team for whom money (and a chance at winning) talks. You can pretend that the Bengals are immune to that sort of thing but you're only fooling yourself. It you were really as morally outraged as you pretend to be, you wouldn't even be a football fan anymore.

In typical Steelers' fan fashion, you're now trying to move the argument to another place to avoid acknowledging that the article was a horrible joke.

Your post might make sense if I had just condemned them for even keeping them on the team, but this has nothing to do with money talking and has everything to do with Arian's ridiculous claim Ben had grown up.

"take her to the bathroom ben, it's your word against hers"

(07-10-2017, 09:45 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Here is ProFootballTalk saying that Joey Porter called out Big Ben in 2005, and that Ben needed to "grow up fast" and "become one of us."

See, what you don't get is that by telling him to grow up and "become one of us", he meant a Steeler, so being a rape-y horrible human being WAS becoming one of them. Duh.

(07-29-2017, 04:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: See, what you don't get is that by telling him to grow up and "become one of us", he meant a Steeler, so being a rape-y horrible human being WAS becoming one of them. Duh.

How do I overlook the obvious things?!

(07-29-2017, 04:21 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How do I overlook the obvious things?!

Can't see the forest for the trees sometimes, Bfritz. It happens.

(07-29-2017, 04:21 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: How do I overlook the obvious things?!

(07-29-2017, 04:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Can't see the forest for the trees sometimes, Bfritz. It happens.

See what he did there?

(07-25-2017, 11:19 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Say you have a boss or coworker who you see out at the bar every night, shows up late to work because he's hungover, and misses days of work because he's been in jail for public intoxication or DUI, can you still say he's a good boss and good leader?  

That rings even more true for athletes like Ben, whose actions are magnified in the news.

A leader wouldn't do those things and compromise the integrity of his team or his ability to be on the field due to suspensions for raping college girls.

So, yes, it is as ridiculous as I claimed.

I definitely agree with you here.  Ben wasn't much of a leader for the team during those years.  It always seemed to be someone else that was looked to for guidance and stability during the season.  Now though...Ben's the leader for this team that he should have been his entire career.