For those who don't know the ending, stop reading here but it's an old movie and if you haven't seen it by now, sorry for the spoilers if you continue reading.

Kevin Spacey is going down the Seven Deadly Sins list and at the end there are only two Deadly Sins left being Wrath and Envy. In Spaceys characters mind he is killing those who represent Those sins being Gluttony, Greed, Lust, Sloth, Pride, Envy and Wrath.

Wrath turns out to be the character David Mills played by Brad Pitt and Envy turns out to be the character John Doe played by Kevin Spacey and Wrath kills Envy to fulfill John Does plan perfectly at the end of the movie. John Doe believes he has been chosen, assumedly by God.

John Doe is killing those he sees as bad but to get David Mills to turn into Wrath, John Doe kills Mills wife and decapitates her.

If someone was to only kill the evil in the world, why kill the innocent wife?

That's my problem with the movie and it's a big hole unless someone can explain it to me.

EDIT: I'm watching Red Dragon now and have to say that Edward Norton isn't a very good actor. He's not Nicholas Cage bad but still not very good.

I think you simply overlooked that Doe is a psychopath. At least some mental health professionals found the portrayal very accurate. Crazy people and their renderings of the universe are flawed too.

(07-29-2017, 04:43 AM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: For those who don't know the ending, stop reading here but it's an old movie and if you haven't seen it by now, sorry for the spoilers if you continue reading.

Kevin Spacey is going down the Seven Deadly Sins list and at the end there are only two Deadly Sins left being Wrath and Envy. In Spaceys characters mind he is killing those who represent Those sins being Gluttony, Greed, Lust, Sloth, Pride, Envy and Wrath.

Wrath turns out to be the character David Mills played by Brad Pitt and Envy turns out to be the character John Doe played by Kevin Spacey and Wrath kills Envy to fulfill John Does plan perfectly at the end of the movie. John Doe believes he has been chosen, assumedly by God.

John Doe is killing those he sees as bad but to get David Mills to turn into Wrath, John Doe kills Mills wife and decapitates her.

If someone was to only kill the evil in the world, why kill the innocent wife?

That's my problem with the movie and it's a big hole unless someone can explain it to me.

EDIT: I'm watching Red Dragon now and have to say that Edward Norton isn't a very good actor. He's not Nicholas Cage bad but still not very good.

The sin wasn't hers, it was his. He envied what others had, so he killed the wife to elicit wrath. We often confuse envy for jealousy, but they aren't exactly the same. Envy means you harbor ill feelings toward someone for having something you don't.

As to the edit, love the book but i preferred Manhunter better. Same story, but I liked the acting better. Outside of Phines, he was solid.

(07-31-2017, 03:24 PM)Benton Wrote: The sin wasn't hers, it was his. He envied what others had, so he killed the wife to elicit wrath. We often confuse envy for jealousy, but they aren't exactly the same. Envy means you harbor ill feelings toward someone for having something you don't.

As to the edit, love the book but i preferred Manhunter better. Same story, but I liked the acting better. Outside of Phines, he was solid.

As to the first, spot on correct.  John Doe recognizes the sin in himself with that act.  I have to say, the scene when Freeman calls him out for enjoying the killings is flawless.  You can see Spacey struggle briefly to reconcile his purpose with Freeman's revelation/challenge.  Outstanding scene.  If you haven't noticed, the weather in se7en directly coincides with Freeman's mood.  Not the only person to notice this by any means, but I did notice this on my own.  

As to Red Dragon, it sucked IMO.  The "Do you see?" scene is laughably bad.  My sister and I quote it all the time.  Ray Fiennes and PSH are outstanding actors and that scene is lball achingly bad.  Not your point, I know, but Norton is a good actor.  He won't transmute shit into gold but he can take solid and crush it.