(07-31-2017, 09:52 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Agree with pretty much all of this. I can't help but think Gio would be better in a place like New England or New Orleans, etc. Or in a place with a better o-line. I don't think he's quite as talented as we (including myself) thought after his rookie year, but he could be better than what we've seen the last couple.

Now, I will say this.  If Andy starts finding multiple routes open, on any given down, you'll see the run production go through the roof (figuratively).

(07-31-2017, 09:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Now, I will say this.  If Andy starts finding multiple routes open, on any given down, you'll see the run production go through the roof (figuratively).

That's a very good possibility if Andy can stay upright. IMO, this is the best receiver depth we've had in many years.

Green, LaFell, Ross, Boyd and Eifert are all quality, and this is definitely the most speed we've had...maybe ever.

(07-31-2017, 08:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I like Gio and glad he's coming along, but I'm not exactly hyped about him anymore. His numbers have been underwhelming for awhile now. Not much of a runner and has lacked in the big plays category for a few years. Of course, the line could play into it. I'm anxious to see how Mixon looks. If we take 3 straight RBs in the 2nd round and none pan out, it's tough to believe it's a coincidence or bad luck.

Lots of folks blame Piano Man.  Lots blame the RBs.  Lots blame the scheme...

I am more in that last camp, but it isn't intentionally a poor running scheme.  It is more a function of defenses not being threatened all over the field and teeing off on the running game.  With new pieces like Ross and Mixon, and the healthy return of players like Eifert and Uzomah, I think ALL the Bengal RBs have a significantly better season. 

Ocho posted some numbers of guys like Gurley among others that were less than 4 YPC and the common thread was that their offensive firepower was lacking.  

(07-31-2017, 09:57 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Now, I will say this.  If Andy starts finding multiple routes open, on any given down, you'll see the run production go through the roof (figuratively).

Exactly....beat me to it.  

Plus, I heard someone say Fej is getting some snaps at RB now....and he is sure to become a Pro Bowl RB in addition to Pro Bowl Safety.  

(08-01-2017, 08:29 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Exactly....beat me to it.  

Plus, I heard someone say Fej is getting some snaps at RB now....and he is sure to become a Pro Bowl RB in addition to Pro Bowl Safety.  

Is Fej a relative of yours?? LoL

(07-31-2017, 07:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That sounds like a pretty good scenario, except for on thing..

If a solid, veteran OL is on the roster bubble, why would the Bengals give up a player for him?  If he's a vet, and good, he's likely on the bubble because he costs so much more than the up and comer that is going to replace him.  Why not just wait for said vets to get cut, and hire them for less?

Never said a vet. Very well could be a guy still on his rookie contract, like Hill. Plus, if the guy is subject to waivers, then we have 8 teams in front of us who could take him.

(08-01-2017, 08:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Lots of folks blame Piano Man.  Lots blame the RBs.  Lots blame the scheme...

I am more in that last camp, but it isn't intentionally a poor running scheme.  It is more a function of defenses not being threatened all over the field and teeing off on the running game.  With new pieces like Ross and Mixon, and the healthy return of players like Eifert and Uzomah, I think ALL the Bengal RBs have a significantly better season. 

Ocho posted some numbers of guys like Gurley among others that were less than 4 YPC and the common thread was that their offensive firepower was lacking.  

I lean towards all of the above, but definitely blame Paul and scheme more than lack of RB talent. You could be right about spreading the field with more weapons, but what about 2013? That year we were 8th in rushing attempts, but 28th in YPC with plenty of weapons to spread the field.

As for what Ocho said, all due respect to him...but several of those guys he listed are over the hill, while Gurley notoriously had maybe the worst line in the league. Under 4 YPC is considered bad for a reason. Talking about Gurley also reminded me of how the Rams have traditionally had a good run game despite having some of the worst sets of receivers in the league.

(07-31-2017, 04:15 PM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I think Hill would be the one traded. I don't see the team jettisoning Gio off one year after giving him an extension. We know how this team feels about dead money, and Gio would carry a $2.2 million hit. I could see us trading Hill for an OL that's on the roster bubble at the end of camp. Although, I agree that a trade is unlikely.

Would be all for this and agree that Hill would be the one traded.

He still has scored the most TD's of any RB over the last 3 years i am pretty sure.

Has to be worth something to somebody.

Also agree it isn't likely but it is possible.

(08-02-2017, 11:29 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I lean towards all of the above, but definitely blame Paul and scheme more than lack of RB talent. You could be right about spreading the field with more weapons, but what about 2013? That year we were 8th in rushing attempts, but 28th in YPC with plenty of weapons to spread the field.

As for what Ocho said, all due respect to him...but several of those guys he listed are over the hill, while Gurley notoriously had maybe the worst line in the league. Under 4 YPC is considered bad for a reason. Talking about Gurley also reminded me of how the Rams have traditionally had a good run game despite having some of the worst sets of receivers in the league.

Good question about 2013...Was that Gruden's last year?  I am surprised that we were 8th in rushing attempts because I got pretty sick of seeing low % passes on third and two.  Groan.

There are lots of variables to a team's success in specific facets of their offense, such as the running game:  division, playing surface at home, opponents, offensive line, weapons, etc.  It is hard to say one specific thing that leads to a great rushing attack, but I will say that I am optimistic that this team's rush attack will be improved.  

Why?  Biggest reason I would say is that if teams put the so-called "8 in the box" or have safeties creeping up, that Dalton will torch them with AJ or Ross.  I am also excited to play more two TE, two WR sets and let one of the TEs help block.  Uzo, Kroft,  and Eifert are seriously big guys...they should all be able to help block.

(08-02-2017, 06:39 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good question about 2013...Was that Gruden's last year?  I am surprised that we were 8th in rushing attempts because I got pretty sick of seeing low % passes on third and two.  Groan.

There are lots of variables to a team's success in specific facets of their offense, such as the running game:  division, playing surface at home, opponents, offensive line, weapons, etc.  It is hard to say one specific thing that leads to a great rushing attack, but I will say that I am optimistic that this team's rush attack will be improved.  

Why?  Biggest reason I would say is that if teams put the so-called "8 in the box" or have safeties creeping up, that Dalton will torch them with AJ or Ross.  I am also excited to play more two TE, two WR sets and let one of the TEs help block.  Uzo, Kroft,  and Eifert are seriously big guys...they should all be able to help block.

Just wish PA could teach his lineman to run block, Boling and Andre are the only guys that have proven they can
consistently on this Line. Hewitt is a great run blocker. Hoping Andre can stay healthy this year or one of the young
guys like Westerman or Redmon can block decent.

In the end we are gonna have to go back to the trenches. But having this many weapons does help for sure.

Don't like seeing Andre banged up already, happy it is minor.

(08-03-2017, 12:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just wish PA could teach his lineman to run block, Boling and Andre are the only guys that have proven they can
consistently on this Line. Hewitt is a great run blocker. Hoping Andre can stay healthy this year or one of the young
guys like Westerman or Redmon can block decent.

In the end we are gonna have to go back to the trenches. But having this many weapons does help for sure.

Don't like seeing Andre banged up already, happy it is minor.

I remember hearing Lapham some time ago say something to the effect of the offensive line needs to stop always doing slide-blocking schemes.  He said "Let them just line up and plow the guy in front of them".  He mentioned that you never really get the firm footing on slides and the idea is to create a cut-back lane but it never seems to work in short yardage.  

For him to openly question the blocking scheme, at least for short yardage, made me really wonder why they stick to it?

(08-04-2017, 08:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I remember hearing Lapham some time ago say something to the effect of the offensive line needs to stop always doing slide-blocking schemes.  He said "Let them just line up and plow the guy in front of them".  He mentioned that you never really get the firm footing on slides and the idea is to create a cut-back lane but it never seems to work in short yardage.  

For him to openly question the blocking scheme, at least for short yardage, made me really wonder why they stick to it?

Lap is completely right. This is pretty much calling out PA.

Wish Lap was our O-line coach over this guy.

(08-04-2017, 08:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I remember hearing Lapham some time ago say something to the effect of the offensive line needs to stop always doing slide-blocking schemes.  He said "Let them just line up and plow the guy in front of them".  He mentioned that you never really get the firm footing on slides and the idea is to create a cut-back lane but it never seems to work in short yardage.  

For him to openly question the blocking scheme, at least for short yardage, made me really wonder why they stick to it?

I don't get it either.  Alexander has been attempting to replicate a zone blocking scheme for years now.  That sort of scheme, using more athletic, agile OLmen, was perfected and executed to perfection by San Francisco in the latter half of their 'Dynasty" years, as well as Denver in the late 90' and 00s.  After years of trying, it's more than evident that Alexander either can't find the right personnel to execute this scheme, or he is not nearly as good at teaching technique as some like to think he is.

You make a great point about our rushing offense's failings in critical short yardage situations.  If you ask me, the solution is simple.  Bring in straight ahead maulers for the interior 3, and turn them loose.  Let your Tackles worry about being athletic and getting downfield, those RBs will find them.

Bring back the Power attack!

(08-02-2017, 06:39 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good question about 2013...Was that Gruden's last year?  I am surprised that we were 8th in rushing attempts because I got pretty sick of seeing low % passes on third and two.  Groan.

There are lots of variables to a team's success in specific facets of their offense, such as the running game:  division, playing surface at home, opponents, offensive line, weapons, etc.  It is hard to say one specific thing that leads to a great rushing attack, but I will say that I am optimistic that this team's rush attack will be improved.  

Why?  Biggest reason I would say is that if teams put the so-called "8 in the box" or have safeties creeping up, that Dalton will torch them with AJ or Ross.  I am also excited to play more two TE, two WR sets and let one of the TEs help block.  Uzo, Kroft,  and Eifert are seriously big guys...they should all be able to help block.

I think your right. On paper it sounds good anyways. We just have to see how it plays out. And yes, 2013 was Jay's last year, when we went 8-0 at home. We were also 12th in pass attempts that year, but we definitely had more success passing than running.

(08-04-2017, 12:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't get it either.  Alexander has been attempting to replicate a zone blocking scheme for years now.  That sort of scheme, using more athletic, agile OLmen, was perfected and executed to perfection by San Francisco in the latter half of their 'Dynasty" years, as well as Denver in the late 90' and 00s.  After years of trying, it's more than evident that Alexander either can't find the right personnel to execute this scheme, or he is not nearly as good at teaching technique as some like to think he is.

You make a great point about our rushing offense's failings in critical short yardage situations.  If you ask me, the solution is simple.  Bring in straight ahead maulers for the interior 3, and turn them loose.  Let your Tackles worry about being athletic and getting downfield, those RBs will find them.

Bring back the Power attack!

IMO, this insistence on sticking with zone blocking scheme is another example of Paul's ego getting in the way of winning football. The other is when he sticks too long with his hand-selected pet projects. I agree on the power running, and think Hill was better suited to that.

(08-04-2017, 12:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't get it either.  Alexander has been attempting to replicate a zone blocking scheme for years now.  That sort of scheme, using more athletic, agile OLmen, was perfected and executed to perfection by San Francisco in the latter half of their 'Dynasty" years, as well as Denver in the late 90' and 00s.  After years of trying, it's more than evident that Alexander either can't find the right personnel to execute this scheme, or he is not nearly as good at teaching technique as some like to think he is.

You make a great point about our rushing offense's failings in critical short yardage situations.  If you ask me, the solution is simple.  Bring in straight ahead maulers for the interior 3, and turn them loose.  Let your Tackles worry about being athletic and getting downfield, those RBs will find them.

Bring back the Power attack!

Well, whoever ends up at RG will be a bigger body, and hopefully stronger (in the gas tank, not bench press...people just don't get that about linemen) and the RT is already 30lbs heavier and stronger than he was a year ago.  Boling is 100% and looks strong, and even everyone's favorite punching bag, Ced O, has improved his strength spending months with Jay Glazer.  

I hope Zampese interjects a couple simple iso power plays because with a healthy Hewitt and more beef on the line, nothing demoralizes a defense like a team that can just pound you to death when they have a lead, and short yardage/goal line needs to be dramatically different for this team to make the run we all want this year. 

(08-04-2017, 01:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think your right. On paper it sounds good anyways. We just have to see how it plays out. And yes, 2013 was Jay's last year, when we went 8-0 at home. We were also 12th in pass attempts that year, but we definitely had more success passing than running.


IMO, this insistence on sticking with zone blocking scheme is another example of Paul's ego getting in the way of winning football. The other is when he sticks too long with his hand-selected pet projects. I agree on the power running, and think Hill was better suited to that.

I never played offensive line, so I can't really speak to their mindset that well, but as Lap says a lineman loves firing off the ball and hitting a guy.  Stop sliding, scheming, and knock some assbags on their back!

(08-04-2017, 12:48 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't get it either.  Alexander has been attempting to replicate a zone blocking scheme for years now.  That sort of scheme, using more athletic, agile OLmen, was perfected and executed to perfection by San Francisco in the latter half of their 'Dynasty" years, as well as Denver in the late 90' and 00s.  After years of trying, it's more than evident that Alexander either can't find the right personnel to execute this scheme, or he is not nearly as good at teaching technique as some like to think he is.

You make a great point about our rushing offense's failings in critical short yardage situations.  If you ask me, the solution is simple.  Bring in straight ahead maulers for the interior 3, and turn them loose.  Let your Tackles worry about being athletic and getting downfield, those RBs will find them.

Bring back the Power attack!

Damn rights.