(08-12-2017, 10:46 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I've read two articles this morning that tend to agree with your overall take on the OL's performance, as a unit.  Both said the OL played well, but both were critical of Ogbuehi.  One of the authors went to length to criticize Og's lack of aggression, and the fact that he was walking or standing around, while run plays were still live.  Both authors were quick to point out that Ogbuehi got beaten on multiple plays in Pass Pro.

This is the thing that bothers me the most about Ogbuehi. And I'd be lying if I didn't admit he's by far my biggest concern on this team. It has nothing to do with hate, or my mind being made up. I'd love it if he has an All-Pro season.

My fear is he's the weak link not only on the O-line but the entire team. Hoping he steps it up and proves me wrong.

Is he an ongoing project? Yes. Does he still have a ways to go? Yes. Did he look better than last year? Hell yes. With game planning and play calling and TE help, we can win with him. All is not lost.

(08-12-2017, 12:32 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: This is the thing that bothers me the most about Ogbuehi. And I'd be lying if I didn't admit he's by far my biggest concern on this team. It has nothing to do with hate, or my mind being made up. I'd love it if he has an All-Pro season.

My fear is he's the weak link not only on the O-line but the entire team. Hoping he steps it up and proves me wrong.

That same author that knocked Ced for not playing through the whistle also noted that his athleticism and some of the technical aspects of his game appear to be improved.  However, he went on to mention that aggressiveness is one thing that cannot be coached.  

Now, to my way of thinking, a strong desire to physically dominate one's opponent, should be one the traits when looking to draft an offensive lineman.  Technical aspects of blocking, such as hand placement, footwork, and learning to stay balanced can all be coached, a desire to be physical cannot.

Now, I have not had the chance to watch last night's game, and decide for myself.  I've only the articles I read, and the opinions of all of you who did watch the game, to go by at this point.

(08-12-2017, 12:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That same author that knocked Ced for not playing through the whistle also noted that his athleticism and some of the technical aspects of his game appear to be improved.  However, he went on to mention that aggressiveness is one thing that cannot be coached.  

Now, to my way of thinking, a strong desire to physically dominate one's opponent, should be one the traits when looking to draft an offensive lineman.  Technical aspects of blocking, such as hand placement, footwork, and learning to stay balanced can all be coached, a desire to be physical cannot.

Now, I have not had the chance to watch last night's game, and decide for myself.  I've only the articles I read, and the opinions of all of you who did watch the game, to go by at this point.

Aggressiveness takes confidence.  His confidence was obviously destroyed last year.  It takes awhile to get that back.  Success breeds confidence but it doesn't happen overnight.  As long as he keeps taking steps forward, his confidence will grow. 

What we didn't want to see last night was him being overwhelmed.  And he wasn't.  

Obviously I want the guy to play well. I'm still hopeful it can happen. I'm still just a bit gun shy on him. He did play better last night than he did last season. I'm just going to reserve judgement until I see what he does in the regular season.

Did it hurt us last night? The answer is outside the hand off hill got tackled in the backfield it didn't hurt us. If he simply doesn't kill us all year we are fine. If he is the only issue on the line as we can use a back or TE to chip to his side. Overall I was really happy to see how the line held against a pretty good Tampa defensive front.

(08-12-2017, 11:21 AM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Ced didn't play great, he didn't play horrible either.  He knows his importance to the teams success and he was probably dealing with a big case of the jitters.  He's got 4 more weeks to correct the "correctables" after reviewing the game film.  

I'm not ready to call him a pro bowler, but I'm cautiously optimistic he can get to an average NFL starter level.

Sad! A first round selection striving to become an average NFL starter.
I would never allow piano man to have a say in the draft room.

(08-12-2017, 10:46 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I've read two articles this morning that tend to agree with your overall take on the OL's performance, as a unit.  Both said the OL played well, but both were critical of Ogbuehi.  One of the authors went to length to criticize Og's lack of aggression, and the fact that he was walking or standing around, while run plays were still live.  Both authors were quick to point out that Ogbuehi got beaten on multiple plays in Pass Pro.

I did notice him standing around some. When I say improved....I didn't mean all pro... LOL. Let's just say....serviceable. Which is light years better than last season.

He played better than Minter.

If I'm going into last night's game with no assumptions, then Ced was not an issue last night.

INT in the readzone

TB marching on our 1st team D

DB play

LB play

Now those were issues.

(08-12-2017, 09:43 AM)Wyche Wrote: I think a bit of an overreaction. I agree he isn't that hot....but at least he's better than he was.  Plus....the Bucs D aren't slouches.

(08-12-2017, 10:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: Not too shabby....albeit against backups.  Westerman and Hopkins played well, I thought.

Thanks for this Wyche, Brad scared me here. Didn't get to watch the game, just the highlights.

Lap heaped big time praise on Hopkins in the follow up of the game definately like hearing this. Said he run blocked
very well and Westerman filled in for Boling and as you said played well. I expected Og to struggle a bit against the
Bucs. As you say here Wyche, these guys ain't no slouches.

If Og continues to play bad we still could have a backup plan of Fisher at LT and Andre back to RT.

Happy to hear about the Guards playing well in both the run and passing game against a very good D-line.

(08-12-2017, 10:26 AM)bfine32 Wrote: You're not overreacting it's just how we wired. In your mind you have already decided the Ced in terrible at LT. Anything you see to support this assumption will automatically channel you to focus on that and ignore any data that contradicts your assumption.

Ced and the rest of the online (to include Bodine) had a fine night. I don't think Andy or AJM got touched and the running game was productive. Now of course I could be saying this because my mind has decided that these kids are going to be alright. 

Thanks Bfine, really nice hearing Bodine having a fine night. If we can finally get some solid play at Center we will
be more than okay. Sounds like Brad is overreacting actually.

Game wasn't aired here, but from what I've seen/heard he didn't do horrible.

And this is coming from a guy (me) who thought at the time he was drafted thAt ogb would be considered a top 10 bust when people talk about the bengals 20 years from now. Last season didn't change that opinion, but what I'm hearing now (and won't know until I can watch a full game) is that he's at least serviceable.

As always, don't put a ton of stock in preseason.

(08-12-2017, 01:20 PM)Benton Wrote: Game wasn't aired here, but from what I've seen/heard he didn't do horrible.

And this is coming from a guy (me) who thought at the time he was drafted thAt ogb would be considered a top 10 bust when people talk about the bengals 20 years from now. Last season didn't change that opinion,  but what I'm hearing now (and won't know until I can watch a full game) is that he's at least serviceable.

As always, don't put a ton of stock in preseason.

Put it this way--he didn't have disaster written all over him.  At this point, that's what we were hoping to see.  He just might not doom another season.  Now, if he can just get better each week, we might be okay.

(08-12-2017, 01:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If I'm going into last night's game with no assumptions, then Ced was not an issue last night.

INT in the readzone

TB marching on our 1st team D

DB play

LB play

Now those were issues.

Not to derail the Ogbuehi suckfest, but you say there was a concern with the LB play?  Did an individual or two have a poor outing, or was it the unit as a collective whole?

(08-12-2017, 01:06 PM)Derrick Wrote: Sad! A first round selection striving to become an average NFL starter.
I would never allow piano man to have a say in the draft room.

Possibly.  But there have been several first round ol busts also.  And I meant for this year only.  After the disaster that he was last year, improving to average at a tougher position would be a nice jump.  I would expect further improvement for next year.  

Try a little optimism bro

(08-12-2017, 01:23 PM)McC Wrote: Put it this way--he didn't have disaster written all over him.  At this point, that's what we were hoping to see.  He just might not doom another season.  Now, if he can just get better each week, we might be okay.

I spent a lot of time watching Ced last night. I didn't think he did too bad. Outside the whiff that led to Hill's tackle for loss, he seemed to do ok. And As I see it, he didn't look lost like he did so often last season. And that's what we want...improvement. He doesn't have to be great, he just needs to hold his own and improve. I think he did that last night. He didnt give up a sack last night, and TB has a decent starting DL. So to me, as long as he shows improvement through the pre season, I will not bash him. Just hold your own and keep getting better big guy.

(08-12-2017, 01:28 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Possibly.  But there have been several first round ol busts also.  And I meant for this year only.  After the disaster that he was last year, improving to average at a tougher position would be a nice jump.  I would expect further improvement for next year.  

Try a little optimism bro

You know me, I'm generally about as optimistic as they come.  However, I am of the mindset that it's do or die for Cedric Ogbuehi.  His only listed backup is an undrafted rfa from ND State..  Add in the fact that Fisher hasn't officially blown everyone away, and the only two others with Tackle experience are the often injured Andre Smith, and the "going over the hill fast" Eric Winston.  

I'm thinking that if Cedric Ogbuehi doesn't make some major strides at showing he can competently handle the job, the Bengals might have to do the unthinkable, and make a deal for an existing veteran off of another roster.

Ced survived. and Dalton wasn't mauled like he was in the 2016 preseason and throughout last year. The real question is if he can hold up when Dalton has to hold the ball longer than 1.5 seconds. I think Fisher calmed some nerves.

(08-12-2017, 01:34 PM)Beaker Wrote: I spent a lot of time watching Ced last night. I didn't think he did too bad. Outside the whiff that led to Hill's tackle for loss, he seemed to do ok. And As I see it, he didn't look lost like he did so often last season. And that's what we want...improvement. He doesn't have to be great, he just needs to hold his own and improve. I think he did that last night. He didnt give up a sack last night, and TB has a decent starting DL. So to me, as long as he shows improvement through the pre season, I will not bash him. Just hold your own and keep getting better big guy.

Yep.  At the very least, he showed there is hope.  That's all I was looking for.

It is possible that as Cincinnati Bengals fans we became quite spoiled by having Andrew Wittworth at that tackle position for so long and anyone not named Andrew Wittworth will always be seen as 39 steps backwards even if they actually play better. 
We had Munoz and Witt for a long time. That's some tough shoes to step into. 
Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but I think he'll be ok and keep improving. He's got a LONG LONG LONG way to go to get to Canton.. I don't think he'll ever get there, but it's still early in his football career.