I see some people concerned about our pass rush...but teams generally only use vanilla defensive plays in the preseason as to not reveal all the wrinkles for the regular season.

Our defense will be fine.

It also makes it really hard to know how an offensive line is performing.

(08-12-2017, 11:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I see some people concerned about our pass rush...but teams generally only use vanilla defensive plays in the preseason as to not reveal all the wrinkles for the regular season.

Our defense will be fine.

It also makes it really hard to know how an offensive line is performing.

Just this past week, Jurrell Casey of the Titans was on the Sirius Training Camp Tour stating that they have a small playbook, and what they are showing now in the preseason will be the same thing they run during the season.  To them it doesn't matter if you already know all of their plays, which one will it be?  Even if you know exactly what the play is beforehand, their mindset is you can't stop them regardless.

I'm not trying to counter Pistons point.  I'm re-enforcing it.  Occasionally you can assemble an enormous amount of talent and have a guy like Lebeau instill that kind of confidence and be successful in doing so, but more likely you will keep the cards close to the vest as the element of surprise can sometimes be enough to topple a superior opponent.

(08-12-2017, 11:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I see some people concerned about our pass rush...but teams generally only use vanilla defensive plays in the preseason as to not reveal all the wrinkles for the regular season.

Our defense will be fine.

It also makes it really hard to know how an offensive line is performing.

Yup. That's why i just stood and watched as the 'omg, defense suxorz!!' train went steaming by. 

Was disappointed in the middle of the field being so wide open. That's Been a problem for a few years frankly. But I'm going to enjoy watching Willis (FAST) and Lawson rushing the QB this year. Anyway Michael Johnson actually makes the team on his play alone at this point?

Vanilla defenses are the easiest schemes to run and it's the best way to evaluate talent in game situations. Also, defensive coordinators know if a new player can't handle vanilla schemes he will not be able to master advanced techniques.

To use a musical analogy, I remember auditioning for a trumpet spot in jazz band in college even though I was a physics major. I prepared a hard audition piece but the band director just said, "Play a G major scale."

(08-12-2017, 11:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I see some people concerned about our pass rush...but teams generally only use vanilla defensive plays in the preseason as to not reveal all the wrinkles for the regular season.

Our defense will be fine.

It also makes it really hard to know how an offensive line is performing.

I was not concerned about our pass rush. I am concern about us leaving the middle of the field wide open and poor play at LB, unless vanilla D's do that too. 

(08-13-2017, 09:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I was not concerned about our pass rush. I am concern about us leaving the middle of the field wide open and poor play at LB, unless vanilla D's do that too. 

Kinda makes you miss Rey Maualuga a little, doesn't it?

(08-12-2017, 11:52 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I see some people concerned about our pass rush...but teams generally only use vanilla defensive plays in the preseason as to not reveal all the wrinkles for the regular season.

Our defense will be fine.

It also makes it really hard to know how an offensive line is performing.

I agree about vanilla defenses, but I want our DL to be able to beat their man and get sacks because of speed and power and not just gimmicks or coverage sacks more often. I was not happy last night with our pass rush from the DL and Lawson, but I am far from worried after 1 game. I think we can be dominant, but only if we win the man on man DL matchups and dominate them, not just win them.

(08-13-2017, 10:12 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Kinda makes you miss Rey Maualuga a little, doesn't it?

Rey was part of the reason the middle of the field was always open

(08-13-2017, 09:59 AM)bfine32 Wrote: I was not concerned about our pass rush. I am concern about us leaving the middle of the field wide open and poor play at LB, unless vanilla D's do that too. 

I did not like leaving the middle open either. Rey M. was attacked from all sides about being too slow and bad in pass coverage. Minter looked like a smaller version of Rey M. Fridy night so is it the player or the scheme?

(08-13-2017, 10:17 AM)Clep Wrote: Rey was part of the reason the middle of the field was always open

I know. I was being facetious. I loved Rey against the run but covering tight ends was a joke. Rey's 40 yard dash was timed with a sundial.

I'm concerned about our coverage. Our corners were pretty awful against the first stringers Friday night. Adam Jones needs to turn around and look for the ball instead getting lucky and getting away with PI twice. Cmon man, it is the corner of the endzone, it ain't like you're going to lose your man. Dennard needs to be demoted to our last place CB. He is a liability on special teams and in coverage. Can't man up. Looks slow and lost. Those other teams that passed on him knew something we didn't cuz this guy is one of the worst corners I've ever seen.

Oh and even in a vanilla defense I expect better run coverage from our LBs and DL. Everyone should be sent back to the weight room. Billings is a freaking joke getting pushed around in traffic like that. Or maybe he didn't realize how out of position he was? Maybe the weight room and the film room. And Marquis Flowers looked like a wimp on special teams. Got in traffic and was pushed away from the runner and couldn't even get his arms up. Have him spend extra hours on the weight room on his upper body. I realize he's supposed to be our Nickel backer, but being light on your feet is only part of that job -- you do have to actually be able to tackle people. Get your freaking arms up and show some muscle! I've seen defensive backs get pushed around less/tackle better.

Also Derron Smith had a pretty bad night.

(08-13-2017, 10:12 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Kinda makes you miss Rey Maualuga a little, doesn't it?

Kinda makes me think he never left.

(08-13-2017, 11:12 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: I'm concerned about our coverage. Our corners were pretty awful against the first stringers Friday night. Adam Jones needs to turn around and look for the ball instead getting lucky and getting away with PI twice. Cmon man, it is the corner of the endzone, it ain't like you're going to lose your man. needs to be demoted to our last place CB. He is a liability on special teams and in coverage. Can't man up. Looks slow and lost. Those other teams that passed on him knew something we didn't cuz this guy is one of the worst corners I've ever seen.

Oh and even in a vanilla defense I expect better run coverage from our LBs and DL. Everyone should be sent back to the weight room. Billings is a freaking joke getting pushed around in traffic like that. Or maybe he didn't realize how out of position he was? Maybe the weight room and the film room. And Marquis Flowers looked like a wimp on special teams. Got in traffic and was pushed away from the runner and couldn't even get his arms up. Have him spend extra hours on the weight room on his upper body. I realize he's supposed to be our Nickel backer, but being light on your feet is only part of that job -- you do have to actually be able to tackle people. Get your freaking arms up and show some muscle! I've seen defensive backs get pushed around less/tackle better.

Also Derron Smith had a pretty bad night.

I agree. He's been here for awhile now and has looked like nothing more than a huge disappointment since he arrived. What really gets me is didn't Marvin claim Dennard was the best corner he's ever seen? Or something along those lines... I think it wasn't long after Dennard was drafted. Maybe the injuries ruined him? 

(08-13-2017, 11:12 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: I'm concerned about our coverage. Our corners were pretty awful against the first stringers Friday night. Adam Jones needs to turn around and look for the ball instead getting lucky and getting away with PI twice. Cmon man, it is the corner of the endzone, it ain't like you're going to lose your man. Dennard needs to be demoted to our last place CB. He is a liability on special teams and in coverage. Can't man up. Looks slow and lost. Those other teams that passed on him knew something we didn't cuz this guy is one of the worst corners I've ever seen.

Oh and even in a vanilla defense I expect better run coverage from our LBs and DL. Everyone should be sent back to the weight room. Billings is a freaking joke getting pushed around in traffic like that. Or maybe he didn't realize how out of position he was? Maybe the weight room and the film room. And Marquis Flowers looked like a wimp on special teams. Got in traffic and was pushed away from the runner and couldn't even get his arms up. Have him spend extra hours on the weight room on his upper body. I realize he's supposed to be our Nickel backer, but being light on your feet is only part of that job -- you do have to actually be able to tackle people. Get your freaking arms up and show some muscle! I've seen defensive backs get pushed around less/tackle better.

Also Derron Smith had a pretty bad night.

Lol if you can't spar with a guy like Evans youre gonna get tossed aside like a bag of bagels. Jones did exactly what he was supposed to do on those two end zone passes, and the second one was clearly OPI on Evans.

(08-13-2017, 11:24 AM)treee Wrote: Lol if you can't spar with a guy like Evans youre gonna get tossed aside like a bag of bagels. Jones did exactly what he was supposed to do on those two end zone passes, and the second one was clearly OPI on Evans.

Maybe. I guess the result was OK. It just seemed like the 2nd time they threw at him in the endzone was exactly the same as the first and a smart CB might've picked that off.

My other complaint was that Guenther didn't double Evans after he started burning us but that might be a pre-season thing I guess. More about evaluation than winning the game. 

(08-13-2017, 11:12 AM)BoomerFan Wrote: I'm concerned about our coverage. Our corners were pretty awful against the first stringers Friday night. Adam Jones needs to turn around and look for the ball instead getting lucky and getting away with PI twice. Cmon man, it is the corner of the endzone, it ain't like you're going to lose your man. Dennard needs to be demoted to our last place CB. He is a liability on special teams and in coverage. Can't man up. Looks slow and lost. Those other teams that passed on him knew something we didn't cuz this guy is one of the worst corners I've ever seen.

Oh and even in a vanilla defense I expect better run coverage from our LBs and DL. Everyone should be sent back to the weight room. Billings is a freaking joke getting pushed around in traffic like that. Or maybe he didn't realize how out of position he was? Maybe the weight room and the film room. And Marquis Flowers looked like a wimp on special teams. Got in traffic and was pushed away from the runner and couldn't even get his arms up. Have him spend extra hours on the weight room on his upper body. I realize he's supposed to be our Nickel backer, but being light on your feet is only part of that job -- you do have to actually be able to tackle people. Get your freaking arms up and show some muscle! I've seen defensive backs get pushed around less/tackle better.

Also Derron Smith had a pretty bad night.

Jones was by far the best CB we had Friday night. Jones was shoved and pushed by Evans, not once but twice and I had a bird's eye view as it was literally right in front of me and I watched them from the time the ball was snapped as my seats are at the start of that end zone on the Bengals side of the field.

(08-13-2017, 02:06 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Maybe. I guess the result was OK. It just seemed like the 2nd time they threw at him in the endzone was exactly the same as the first and a smart CB might've picked that off.

My other complaint was that Guenther didn't double Evans after he started burning us but that might be a pre-season thing I guess. More about evaluation than winning the game. 

Evans is huge and strong and got away with pushing Jones, not once but twice on back to back plays. It is hard to intercept or catch when interfered with like happened blatantly.

(08-13-2017, 02:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Evans is huge and strong and got away with pushing Jones, not once but twice on back to back plays. It is hard to intercept or catch when interfered with like happened blatantly.

Interesting. Will be rewatching the game off my DVR soon and I'll watch for this. If that's the case then that is probably the best way to deal with him. 

(08-13-2017, 11:14 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Kinda makes me think he never left.