Yes indeed: Cedric Ogbuehi is on his way to being a solid tackle in the NFL and I was very pleased with his improvement over last season. He still needs to sustain blocks longer and find secondary blocks faster but those two skills will develop too. My hat is off to Cedric for all the work he put in over the offseason because it showed. He's committed to this team and he wants to win. If a player has those two characteristics he'll go far.

(08-12-2017, 11:06 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: After putting on my ex coaching glasses , I attempted to evaluate Cedric from the 1st half taping the game without the added advantage of a coaching session, play and line calls that you would have at your disposal in a real coaching setting.. So here it goes

I looked Run blocking, Pass Blocking and Other Areas and gave a Overall Grade and Evaluation

RUN BLOCKING
This was the strongest area of his game last nite.. he had nice push on a few blocks, seemed to know his assignment, he one bad block but that is going to happen in a game.. Overall Solid job

PASS BLOCKING
He was good on first contact, was good on movement off the ball and decent on pushing upfield on pass protection.. Where he was weak was not continue his block and continue his feet movement but he did not allow a sack and linemen also know the play call so they will adjust their blocking to that.. for example if he knows it is a quick pass read.. a tackle does not want to get beat inside so he will be content on pushing the Dline outside and may give some space upfield knowing the pass will be gone rather than be beat on a inside move that could put the rusher in line of sight of QB or Pass, that is why just trying to make evaluations from TV is much harder .

OTHER AREAS:
Penalties/Assignments:   From what i could tell his assignments were solid, he seemed to know the play, who to block etc zero penalties

Hustle;  Area of improvement for sure.. needs to stay with plays better downfield and play to the whistle

OVERALL GRADE:  C TO C+-  Good overall in run game, Great in zero penalties, assignments look good, good off the snap, lacking though in continuation of blocks and playing to the whistle.  

The big reason he really took a step forward is look where this guy was at end of last year.. ZERO CONFIDENCE... the mental game is so important in football and more than some of you know with lineman... they almost never have a play off.. and this was his first chance for real live action football ( not practice, ligh scrimmages, line drills etc) since the ending of his terrible season last year.

For him to come away with zero sacks, zero penalties, and a few very positive plays on film is such a great start to building his mental game... Munoz has said it a couple times.. he has the skills, he has to find the mental game to release those skills and last night he took a step forward on that.

Nice to see an evalaution for all a LT does like run blocking which many seem to ignore

TY for taking the time to do a complete critique.

(08-12-2017, 11:10 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I hope the kid becomes a solid LT. I want him to be good. I'm just not going to hold my breath.

It was a preseason game, so I'm not going to say he turned a corner or is improved. Once we hit the regular season, we'll see what he's got. If he improves and plays well, I'll have no problem saying I was wrong about him. However, I think there's a better chance that his play will look like last season and not last night.

So for the record, you think he will show no improvement in 2017 over 2016.

(08-13-2017, 08:00 AM)treee Wrote: Just re-watched the game last night, only paying attention to Ced when the offense was on the field. He did fine. I'm not worried.

I think those who choose to watch a game and focus only on one LT should do the same with the other 15 games each week. I think they will be surprised to learn LT's get beat numerous times every game by great defenders. 

Yep, he certainly did better. But overall he still needs quite a bit of work to become more effective. I'll wait to see his next game to become worried about him being a major liability. As someone said, we really just need him to be average and that's a huge win.

(08-13-2017, 08:00 AM)treee Wrote: Just re-watched the game last night, only paying attention to Ced when the offense was on the field. He did fine. I'm not worried.

So 1 preseason game where we threw nothing but lightning quick passes alleviated all your worries after watching 14 real games (12 starts) of total suckitude from this guy last year? I'm not saying that a drastic turnaround can't happen, but I need to see a smidge more evidence before I'm as confident as you. 

(08-13-2017, 10:12 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think those who choose to watch a game and focus only on one LT should do the same with the other 15 games each week. I think they will be surprised to learn LT's get beat numerous times every game by great defenders. 

Ogbuehi graded out as the worst tackle in the league last year, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't close. He also gave up the most pressures and sacks. 

Yes, other tackles get beat. Not quite like that though. There's good reason for skepticism with the guy and I would think everyone should understand that at the very least.

(08-13-2017, 10:07 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So for the record, you think he will show no improvement in 2017 over 2016.

I am expecting him not to show improvement. That is correct. Again, I want him to be better, but I'm not expecting it.

(08-13-2017, 10:32 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So 1 preseason game where we threw nothing but lightning quick passes alleviated all your worries after watching 14 real games (12 starts) of total suckitude from this guy last year? I'm not saying that a drastic turnaround can't happen, but I need to see a smidge more evidence before I'm as confident as you. 

Not confident by any means, I'm just not worried. He's off to a good start and we still have 3 mores tapes with increasing amounts of game time to evaluate before the season starts. He did well in the run game and good enough in the pass game (though as you stated, and I noted in the gameday thread as well, we stuck with 3 step drops).

(08-13-2017, 10:51 AM)treee Wrote: Not confident by any means, I'm just not worried. He's off to a good start and we still have 3 mores tapes with increasing amounts of game time to evaluate before the season starts. He did well in the run game and good enough in the pass game (though as you stated, and I noted in the gameday thread as well, we stuck with 3 step drops).

It was a mildly encouraging start. That's about as much as I'm willing to offer at this point. 

Fwiw, it's hard to imagine him being as bad as he was last year, but it's also tough to imagine him being an asset. He certainly won't be as good as the guy who manned his spot last year.

(08-13-2017, 11:00 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It was a mildly encouraging start. That's about as much as I'm willing to offer at this point. 

Fwiw, it's hard to imagine him being as bad as he was last year, but it's also tough to imagine him being an asset. He certainly won't be as good as the guy who manned his spot last year.

I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly. Whit left some gigantic shoes to fill, and more like than not Ob will not live up to those standards for quite a while, if ever.

The O-line in general looked better thsnk goodness.

Not ready to say they are good yet though.

(08-13-2017, 11:20 AM)treee Wrote: I agree with your last sentence wholeheartedly. Whit left some gigantic shoes to fill, and more like than not Ob will not live up to those standards for quite a while, if ever.

This as well ^^^^^^^^^^^^

IMO, Ced will be a work in progress this year. I expect improvement over last year for sure, but I also expect some serious facepalm moments as well. Truth is, he still has a lot of work to do and still has areas where he has to get better...and he has to do these things while all eyes are on him as he protects Andy's blindside. 

I expect growth and improvement. I expect ups and downs. I expect some really rough moments. My hope is that he can continue to develop at a satisfactory rate without getting Andy killed in the process. I'm not sure what else you can ask for or expect at this point.

(08-13-2017, 11:00 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: It was a mildly encouraging start. That's about as much as I'm willing to offer at this point. 

Fwiw, it's hard to imagine him being as bad as he was last year, but it's also tough to imagine him being an asset. He certainly won't be as good as the guy who manned his spot last year.

I'm not too encouraged at all right now. Still saw the same sort of issues he had last year that will inevitably be a problem this year. 
Until he stops opening his hips and firing wide, he will be a liability. 

I'm not impressed that he looked marginally better as the backups rotated in for Tampa. 

Trey Hopkins and Christian Westerman were the standouts on the OL yesterday. 
Alex Redmond showed some promise too. 

(08-13-2017, 01:28 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: IMO, Ced will be a work in progress this year. I expect improvement over last year for sure, but I also expect some serious facepalm moments as well. Truth is, he still has a lot of work to do and still has areas where he has to get better...and he has to do these things while all eyes are on him as he protects Andy's blindside. 

I expect growth and improvement. I expect ups and downs. I expect some really rough moments. My hope is that he can continue to develop at a satisfactory rate without getting Andy killed in the process. I'm not sure what else you can ask for or expect at this point.

No doubt, a 3rd year pro who is playing in 2nd year in the NFL due to injury needs training and will not be an all pro like Whittworth. Fisher will not be as good as A. Smith on right side either when Smith was playing well.

I do think PA is smart enough to tell him to hold or take  guy down if he is beat off the snap on a pass drop back. I know many think Ced will be beat and AD will get killed, I see holding penalties being a bigger issue than QB safety.

(08-13-2017, 01:37 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I'm not too encouraged at all right now. Still saw the same sort of issues he had last year that will inevitably be a problem this year. 
Until he stops opening his hips and firing wide, he will be a liability. 

I'm not impressed that he looked marginally better as the backups rotated in for Tampa. 

Trey Hopkins and Christian Westerman were the standouts on the OL yesterday. 
Alex Redmond showed some promise too. 

Hey, you've been pretty spot on with the o-line stuff for awhile and I know you do your homework. So I don't doubt what you say.

When I say I was mildly encouraged, I mean I've seen much worse from him. If he's not flat on his back or getting thoroughly man-handled, then that's a good day for him. If you say his technique is still flawed though, I believe you.

(08-13-2017, 01:37 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I'm not too encouraged at all right now. Still saw the same sort of issues he had last year that will inevitably be a problem this year. 
Until he stops opening his hips and firing wide, he will be a liability. 

I'm not impressed that he looked marginally better as the backups rotated in for Tampa. 

Trey Hopkins and Christian Westerman were the standouts on the OL yesterday. 
Alex Redmond showed some promise too. 

Trey Hopkins was great and no one is talking about how Jake Fisher was just as good.

(08-13-2017, 03:41 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Hey, you've been pretty spot on with the o-line stuff for awhile and I know you do your homework. So I don't doubt what you say.

When I say I was mildly encouraged, I mean I've seen much worse from him. If he's not flat on his back or getting thoroughly man-handled, then that's a good day for him. If you say his technique is still flawed though, I believe you.

I get the "results" looked better aspect, but plays were often designed to nullify any impact the tackles could have and there are still issues in the technique that might look like a good play but if you know what you are looking for with the technique, you often see the results aren't a repeatable thing. 

It's a process and the process ain't over. If he stops improving, then we got a problem. If he keeps improving, his confidence will grow and so will his game. Way too early to declare anything long range about him.

The bottom line is, on that night, the offense was able to make it work. Yes, it will get tougher but the offense will be getting better too.

If we can run the ball well, that helps a lot.

(08-12-2017, 11:10 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: I hope the kid becomes a solid LT. I want him to be good. I'm just not going to hold my breath.

It was a preseason game, so I'm not going to say he turned a corner or is improved. Once we hit the regular season, we'll see what he's got. If he improves and plays well, I'll have no problem saying I was wrong about him. However, I think there's a better chance that his play will look like last season and not last night.

Good.  Holding your breath is only a good idea if you're underwater.