(08-14-2017, 07:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: For a team with such a rich history of drafting Tackles and CBs, this latest bunch hasn't really blown the world away.  Ogbuehi, Fisher, Kirkpatrick, Dennard, Jackson.  None of which produced much of anything their first couple years on the team.  However, I will say that Jackson looks promising to be a major contributor in year two.

All of them have one big thing in common. They didn't play much if at all right away.
You don't learn football sitting on a bench. You need reps. Fisher is showing improvements as he gets reps and is beginning to time things better. 
Is he perfect? No. But the base is there and the rest is catching up.

I think they have gotten enamored with a type on the OL and are really just missing the forest through the trees. This is a side effect of having coaches also do scouting, IMO. They look and like different things. So I see why coaches like big athletic OL with technique problems because you think you can coach that up. But you miss certain things along the way too. 

(08-14-2017, 07:45 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: All of them have one big thing in common. They didn't play much if at all right away.
You don't learn football sitting on a bench. You need reps. Fisher is showing improvements as he gets reps and is beginning to time things better. 
Is he perfect? No. But the base is there and the rest is catching up.

I think they have gotten enamored with a type on the OL and are really just missing the forest through the trees. This is a side effect of having coaches also do scouting, IMO. They look and like different things. So I see why coaches like big athletic OL with technique problems because you think you can coach that up. But you miss certain things along the way too. 

I agree.  With regard to the OL, they have totally overlooked the "nasty, aggressive" aspects of a players toolbox of skills, as things to look for in a prospect.  Hell, the first thing that ever caught my attention out of Whitworth, was the year he played LG.  I remember him rolling on the ground, fighting some DL man.  Immediately, I thought to myself, that guy is going to be a star for a long time.

(08-14-2017, 08:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I agree.  With regard to the OL, they have totally overlooked the "nasty, aggressive" aspects of a players toolbox of skills, as things to look for in a prospect.  Hell, the first thing that ever caught my attention out of Whitworth, was the year he played LG.  I remember him rolling on the ground, fighting some DL man.  Immediately, I thought to myself, that guy is going to be a star for a long time.

Passive players don't last on the OL. 
You can get by on size and athleticism for so long. 

Look at the other TAMU OL to jump to the NFL. Teams rave about their size and athleticism. But not much else. 
So far the only one showing out is Jake Matthews, who probably shouldn't have been drafted so high but last name!

Check out @TampaBayTre's Tweet: https://twitter.com/TampaBayTre/status/897085291864961024?s=09

(08-15-2017, 09:54 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Check out @TampaBayTre's Tweet: https://twitter.com/TampaBayTre/status/897085291864961024?s=09

Attitude and power in the hands. Good stuff. 

With Willis and Lawson coming in and showing something I don't see how MJ makes the roster this year. Expensive with not much production. Quality human being but to me his time in stripes should be done, barring injury to any of our young guys. The youth movement should continue, I'd like to see Willis and Lawson rotated at that spot. If Clarke survives cuts this year you could rotate him in on obvious running downs.

I just don't get why they're tinkering with Lawson at LB. Let him be a situational pass rusher from his NATURAL position!


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(08-15-2017, 05:08 PM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: With Willis and Lawson coming in and showing something I don't see how MJ makes the roster this year. Expensive with not much production. Quality human being but to me his time in stripes should be done, barring injury to any of our young guys.  The youth movement should continue, I'd like to see Willis and Lawson rotated at that spot. If Clarke survives cuts this year you could rotate him in on obvious running downs.

I just don't get why they're tinkering with Lawson at LB. Let him be a situational pass rusher from his NATURAL position!


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MJ might make it for his run stopping ability, he is still good at this and tipping passes.

He just shouldn't be our #1 pass rusher at all at RDE damn it! Willis and Chris Smith look completely superior in this aspect.

I agree that is a big question as Lawson is a concern in both stopping the run and coverage.

Guess they are using him at LB to add another pass rusher which might not be a bad idea.

I used to be a Michael Johnson fan but not any longer he's not the same player. I think what he brings to the team is his positive attitude leadership community service. But based on pure skills and longevity I really like what I see out of Chris Smith. I also think Dean is pretty good. The one defensive lineman to keep your eye on is Tupou. Tupou is a large defensive tackle that is a space eater I think he will surprise people he sticks on the 53-man roster but I don't think there's room he at least will be on the practice squad.

(08-14-2017, 07:45 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: All of them have one big thing in common. They didn't play much if at all right away.
You don't learn football sitting on a bench. You need reps. Fisher is showing improvements as he gets reps and is beginning to time things better. 
Is he perfect? No. But the base is there and the rest is catching up.

I think they have gotten enamored with a type on the OL and are really just missing the forest through the trees. This is a side effect of having coaches also do scouting, IMO. They look and like different things. So I see why coaches like big athletic OL with technique problems because you think you can coach that up. But you miss certain things along the way too. 

J I have shown multiple times when you look at our draft history of our high draft picks have played early with exceptions to injuries or a very good player in front of them... 

Where I am critical of the organization is not putting Cedric and Fisher at their positions now right after the draft.. they should have done that.. and to your statement "you don't learn football sitting on a bench", that is not accurate.. players learn and improve very much off season in practice and in the classroom.  Of course nothing replaces real game action but if you don;t improve your craft outside of just game action you really don;t learn much about football and your talent. 

(08-15-2017, 10:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: MJ might make it for his run stopping ability, he is still good at this and tipping passes.

He just shouldn't be our #1 pass rusher at all at RDE damn it! Willis and Chris Smith look completely superior in this aspect.

I agree that is a big question as Lawson is a concern in both stopping the run and coverage.

Guess they are using him at LB to add another pass rusher which might not be a bad idea.

Unless that is all he can do. If he can't be an average defender in run support and in pass coverage then he is useless as a LB. Every time he trots out on the field the offense is going to know that he is coming in to rush the QB, which allows them to audible into a play running at him or passing to where he blitzed from. I like the pass rushing ability he shows, but the rest of his game has to improve to warrant being active.

(08-15-2017, 10:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: MJ might make it for his run stopping ability, he is still good at this and tipping passes.

He just shouldn't be our #1 pass rusher at all at RDE damn it! Willis and Chris Smith look completely superior in this aspect.

I agree that is a big question as Lawson is a concern in both stopping the run and coverage.

Guess they are using him at LB to add another pass rusher which might not be a bad idea.

MJ rated 103 out of 120 eligible edge defenders last season.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/16/16144356/time-bengals-move-on-michael-johnson

So maybe he's still better at run stopping compared to pass rush, but he's still overall too terrible to justify keeping.

I'd rather have Gilberry over MJ at this point.

(08-15-2017, 09:54 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: Check out @TampaBayTre's Tweet: https://twitter.com/TampaBayTre/status/897085291864961024?s=09

Made him look like a 12 year old, taking on his 16 year old brother..

Its really funny to me when people prop up a guys run coverage or pass rushing as a reason to keep a guy. You can do that with pass rushers because there are situations where everyone knows the other team MUST pass.


But having a guy who is average at run coverage and shitty at pass rushing as a starter is STUPID.


So we have you in to contain runs.....what if the other team passes 3 straight times? You were basically worthless that whole drive. And with MJ starting that's the situation we were in on a lot of drives. Had a shitty DE playing hella snaps with little production

Theres a reason so many vets come here and sign 2 and 3 year deals.

Because they know the Bengals aren't gonna cut you no matter how much you suck. Why do you think MJ signed a 4 year deal when he came back. He knew he messed up going to Tampa and knew only 1 team in the whole league was going to give him more than 2 years.......the Bengals.

(08-16-2017, 04:12 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Unless that is all he can do. If he can't be an average defender in run support and in pass coverage then he is useless as a LB. Every time he trots out on the field the offense is going to know that he is coming in to rush the QB, which allows them to audible into a play running at him or passing to where he blitzed from. I like the pass rushing ability he shows, but the rest of his game has to improve to warrant being active.

Completely agree, hope Lawson improves in these other aspects but him being a superior pass rusher is a damn good start.

(08-16-2017, 04:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: MJ rated 103 out of 120 eligible edge defenders last season.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/16/16144356/time-bengals-move-on-michael-johnson

So maybe he's still better at run stopping compared to pass rush, but he's still overall too terrible to justify keeping.

I'd rather have Gilberry over MJ at this point.

Woof 

(08-16-2017, 05:03 PM)Housh Wrote: Its really funny to me when people prop up a guys run coverage or pass rushing as a reason to keep a guy. You can do that with pass rushers because there are situations where everyone knows the other team MUST pass.


But having a guy who is average at run coverage and shitty at pass rushing as a starter is STUPID.


So we have you in to contain runs.....what if the other team passes 3 straight times? You were basically worthless that whole drive. And with MJ starting that's the situation we were in on a lot of drives. Had a shitty DE playing hella snaps with little production

Same problem we had with Peko and Maualuga, one trick ponies. Get rid of these type of players.

I don't know if MJ might be better as a backup rotational player though. But what we saw Friday sure don't look good.

What Ocho shows here is pathetic. 103 out of 120?

(08-16-2017, 05:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Completely agree, hope Lawson improves in these other aspects but him being a superior pass rusher is a damn good start.


Woof 


Same problem we had with Peko and Maualuga, one trick ponies. Get rid of these type of players.

I don't know if MJ might be better as a backup rotational player though. But what we saw Friday sure don't look good.

What Ocho shows here is pathetic. 103 out of 120?

I thought it all the time when Rey was playing nickel linebacker last few years.

Like as a QB if I see Peko, MJ, and Rey on the field at the same time, im passing 100% of the time or doing play action.


We have a history of playing mediocre players a lot of snaps. Yeah our younger players may not be good but playing them over guys like Peko and MJ should've been a no brainer.

Is basically worthless at this point. But we'll keep him and start him to honor his contract. That's the way Mikey rolls ! To hell with the results.

Hey it's something to hang your hat on

(08-16-2017, 04:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: MJ rated 103 out of 120 eligible edge defenders last season.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2017/8/16/16144356/time-bengals-move-on-michael-johnson

So maybe he's still better at run stopping compared to pass rush, but he's still overall too terrible to justify keeping.

I'd rather have Gilberry over MJ at this point.

Do you realize they named him a captain for this game...

(08-19-2017, 11:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Do you realize they named him a captain for this game...

I'll have to go back and watch again but I don't think he ever crossed the LOS on a rush besides getting washed completely out of play outside.

Holy shit, there is noway Johnson should start. I would rather see Smith get the start over him and Willis. This D is horrible. I know its pre season but damn.