One of the most painful things is that Alexander the Great WILL not ever give up on one of his guys. So Bodine and Ogbuehi are going nowhere. I'd love to be proven wrong and both of them turn into solid lineman, but the chances of that happening seem slim.

He needs to be gone and a new OLine coach brought in. It would be nice if the scouting department were expanded as well.

(08-20-2017, 01:12 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ok, we scored 6, i felt we could score 10 without a drop.. so now please explain your NON Reality.. on the sacks.. LT are pretty much looked upon not to give up sacks... and our LT has given up zero sacks in the time he has played in two game.. reality brother.. also i gave a bit more on his overall performance than just lack of sacks.. your logic is what now.. still don;t see any in terms of Cedric ...  :andy:

See what i mean

So please help me on these areas 

Negative plays:  How many did he have tonight

Penalties:  how many did he have

Sacks:  We already know that answer

You are totally disregarding pressures. Dalton was pressured A LOT.

Also, the Bengals did quick pass routes and didn't drop back...because they know they have a poor line. Maybe that is why the guys are dropping passes.

Then there is the lack of run blocking.

Basically this thread is saying Ced is not the absolute worst LT in the league. He's improved and now maybe the 3rd worst!

(08-20-2017, 10:10 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Basically this thread is saying Ced is not the absolute worst LT in the league. He's improved and now maybe the 3rd worst!

In my opinion, he's still the worst. I think I'd rather have Dennis Roland out there than Ced.

(08-20-2017, 10:06 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You are totally disregarding pressures. Dalton was pressured A LOT.

Also, the Bengals did quick pass routes and didn't drop back...because they know they have a poor line. Maybe that is why the guys are dropping passes.

Then there is the lack of run blocking.

The thing is we only ran well to the right side when we pulled both Boling and Ced. Otherwise the right side of the line (Fisher and Hudson) could not move anyone or create a crease. The pressure mostly came from inside, I think Fisher got beat badly once, but Ced did not get beat badly at all in pass protection tonight. AD did take a 5 yard drop on 3rd and long and hit AJ for the first down.

As far as guys dropping passes, giving a pro receiver any alibi for drops is purr BS and you know it. It is 100% on them to focus and catch the damn ball.

(08-20-2017, 10:10 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Basically this thread is saying Ced is not the absolute worst LT in the league. He's improved and now maybe the 3rd worst!

Why is improvement a negative? I know why, you hate the guy and want him gone so we can throw some other LT out there to bash. Last night our OL blew chunks, but Ced was not the weakest on our OL last night, not even close but you still negatively focus on the guy improving. I don't get it.

Our offensive line is likely going to start FOUR guys who would be backups on most Playoff Teams. Chew on that.

You can get by starting 1 maybe 2...but 4!

(08-20-2017, 10:17 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Our offensive line is likely going to start FOUR guys who would be backups on most Playoff Teams. Chew on that.

You can get by starting 1 maybe 2...but 4!

Based on last night, I would agree. Our fans are so focused on one position and one guy Ced they are missing the bigger issue is if we have multiple weak OL starters, we simply can't cover up the weakness. If Ced or Fisher struggles in pass protection, we can use a TE or RB to help them, we can't cover up for multiple weakness on the OL.

(08-20-2017, 10:25 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Based on last night, I would agree. Our fans are so focused on one position and one guy Ced they are missing the bigger issue is if we have multiple weak OL starters, we simply can't cover up the weakness. If Ced or Fisher struggles in pass protection, we can use a TE or RB to help them, we can't cover up for multiple weakness on the OL.

Yep. Even if one or 2 of those guys play average...we'll still have 2 or 3 below average guys. Defenses are going to attack them early and often.

A big reason for the 90s was lack of an offensive line. It could ruin Dalton. He's not a QB that is going to be talented enough to transcend a poor line.

WTF is wrong with some of you people? Knee jerk city much? I know it's human nature and a Bengals fan's birthright...but am i the ONLY one that saw KC stacking the line and filling up the box? They were determined to stop the run and it gave them a step up on getting to the QB quicker. 

Dalton had a meh game. A couple good plays and a few terrible plays. If you want to stretch a defense and push them back, you have to beat them down the field. 

Last night was a combination of average-at-best QB play and the OC either not seeing KC crowd the line or not caring because they were just going to run their plays regardless and get the work in.

2nd preseason game, Holmes. 

Chill

(08-20-2017, 10:25 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Based on last night, I would agree. Our fans are so focused on one position and one guy Ced they are missing the bigger issue is if we have multiple weak OL starters, we simply can't cover up the weakness. If Ced or Fisher struggles in pass protection, we can use a TE or RB to help them, we can't cover up for multiple weakness on the OL.

I agree that there are problems all across the line, but our legendary and esteemed Alexander the Great hand picked 3 of them! The issue goes beyond just the linemen to the coach.

I think Andy bails on his protection a bit too soon. He rarely, if ever, manipulates/moves the pocket or resets the protection. This leads to a breakdown in protection that often is blamed on the Oline when it's actually the QB's fault. I think Andy is great but this/these are flaws in his game.

I also noticed the RB's missing run lanes.

Our Oline is a concern to be sure but it's not solely their fault.

(08-20-2017, 10:42 AM)Devils Advocate Wrote: I think Andy bails on his protection a bit too soon. He rarely, if ever, manipulates/moves the pocket or resets the protection. This leads to a breakdown in protection that often is blamed on the Oline when it's actually the QB's fault. I think Andy is great but this/these are flaws in his game.

I also noticed the RB's missing run lanes.

Our Oline is a concern to be sure but it's not solely their fault.

Yeah. A bit of pressure and he's running full speed for the right sideline...every time.

Except for the time he needed to step right as a defender was barreling toward him right up the middle. So what does he do? Bolts right like he always does, right?

NO. He turns and freaking runs backwards.

WTF??

(08-20-2017, 08:47 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Ummmm the "pancake block" was against a CB who loses his balance with twisted up feet during the "pancake". Did I mention he probably has a 125 lb. weight advantage or more on the guy ?

The defender fell down but it was not a smashing, driving, pancake by any stretch.

It wasn't a horrible game by Ogbuehi and there's probably some signs of a little improvement. But using words like solid game, nice pancake block, no major mental mistakes are stretching the facts - bad !

so you going to debate how a guy fell to justify a good block or not.. i will take Munoz word .. and I started this thread with he had a decent game.. nothing terrible about his play.. and how many of us would have predicted no sacks and no penalities after 2 games... very few with the way he played last year.. mental part of game I felt he improved .. i saw more playing to the whistle,, down field on blocks.. sure he needs to get better but i see the needle up not down over his 2 games so far.. you debating "pancake" and ignoring his improved play.. now that is ignoring facts-  bad!

(08-20-2017, 10:06 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You are totally disregarding pressures. Dalton was pressured A LOT.

Also, the Bengals did quick pass routes and didn't drop back...because they know they have a poor line. Maybe that is why the guys are dropping passes.

Then there is the lack of run blocking.

I have to laugh at those that are going crazy that we like many other teams throw the ball quick, so you think we did not do that over the last few years.. and you think all the other team's don't... give me a break.. did you watch TB game, Winston threw many quick passes, and did you watch last nites game, the bengals had a couple roll outs, threw the ball downfield at least 3/4 times just with Dalton in for the 3 series.... 

(08-20-2017, 10:25 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Based on last night, I would agree. Our fans are so focused on one position and one guy Ced they are missing the bigger issue is if we have multiple weak OL starters, we simply can't cover up the weakness. If Ced or Fisher struggles in pass protection, we can use a TE or RB to help them, we can't cover up for multiple weakness on the OL.

Yep. No one really to help Bodine though, and I think he's damn near as bad as or worse than Ogbuehi.

Joe Goodberry Wrote:Nobody kills more plays or limits the guys around him on the Bengals offense more than Russell Bodine.

https://twitter.com/JoeGoodberry/status/898601570958540800

A team can compensate for one bad starter. Can't really cover two or more.

There's really nothing Ced can do to please many that have already made up their mind that he is no good. They've already stated their position with authority and will close a blind-eye to anything that contradicts that.

Two games, no sacks, and really only one miscue for a guy that is starting LT for the first time in his career. I'll take it and hope for the best. Many will not regardless what they say

For those pointing to quick pass routes as a reason to dismiss what Ced has done. Those are done for the QB's sake, not the O-line. It gives him an opportunity to establish a rhythm with his receivers.

(08-20-2017, 12:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: For those pointing to quick pass routes as a reason to dismiss what Ced has done. Those are done for the QB's sake, not the O-line. It gives him an opportunity to establish a rhythm with his receivers.

Yes, for the QB's sake, because he doesn't enjoy the broken bones that would result from frequently taking 5 and 7 step drops, or actually going through his reads progression.

(08-20-2017, 12:08 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, for the QB's sake, because he doesn't enjoy the broken bones that would result from frequently taking 5 and 7 step drops, or actually going through his reads progression.

This is just not true. I thought you knew football better than this. Tom Brady has fewer YPA that Andy. 

Like I said some folks have their minds made up and nothing is going to change it. Teams work quick passes early in PS, just like basketball players start with layup drills. But if you've got an agenda; you'll ignore this and go with what fits. 

Andy has a higher YPA in this preseason than he does in his career average. Musta spent a career covering for Whit.