Just saw that he's been cut. How long before they announce they signed the latest scrub Olineman to take his roster spot?

(08-21-2017, 02:21 AM)Shady Wrote: Just saw that he's been cut. How long before they announce they signed the latest scrub Olineman to take his roster spot?

Well he's only 33 but Nick Mangold could use a job and they may have to toy with the idea of using him or Bodine at guard if Billy Joel swares on not giving up on OL projects.  He's keeping the faith in Bodine but I don't know why they go to extremes in being too loyal or not willing to overpay for stability. 

(08-21-2017, 02:55 AM)phil413 Wrote: Well he's only 33 but Nick Mangold could use a job and they may have to toy with the idea of using him or Bodine at guard if Billy Joel swares on not giving up on OL projects.  He's keeping the faith in Bodine but I don't know why they go to extremes in being too loyal or not willing to overpay for stability. 

If they didn't go after Zuttah, I doubt they go after anyone.

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Interesting fact... with Thompson leaving, that means only 1 of the 5 early (rd1-3) draft picks the Bengals made in 2012 are still on the roster.

(08-21-2017, 02:55 AM)phil413 Wrote: Well he's only 33 but Nick Mangold could use a job and they may have to toy with the idea of using him or Bodine at guard if Billy Joel swares on not giving up on OL projects.  He's keeping the faith in Bodine but I don't know why they go to extremes in being too loyal or not willing to overpay for stability. 

Something has to be up with Mangold...The Ravens were very thin at the interior line, but Mangold visited back in may and left without a contract. Since May they've had Urschel retire and another injured, but they didn't look at a new center until Zuttah was released on the 8th? Fishy.

(08-21-2017, 02:21 AM)Shady Wrote: Just saw that he's been cut. How long before they announce they signed the latest scrub Olineman to take his roster spot?

Depends how quickly one is released from another team....

I agree that they are waiting with baited breath for a serviceable OT to replace Winston and push Ced....only problem is, no one would ever release such a player. 

There is nothing concerning to me about the interior of our O line, I am actually relatively happy with it. I think Hopkins can grow into a pretty good starter, but until he gets more game time under his belt he will have his bad moments. If you tell me there is a legit Tackle out there then we can talk, at least as a back up plan. The issue is any Tackle out there right now is there for a reason, but if one gets cut for cap issues here in the next week or two I'd be up for bringing them in.

(08-21-2017, 09:55 AM)Au165 Wrote: There is nothing concerning to me about the interior of our O line, I am actually relatively happy with it. I think Hopkins can grow into a pretty good starter, but until he gets more game time under his belt he will have his bad moments. If you tell me there is a legit Tackle out there then we can talk, at least as a back up plan. The issue is any Tackle out there right now is there for a reason, but if one gets cut for cap issues here in the next week or two I'd be up for bringing them in.

Still and always will be concerned with this guy...

(08-21-2017, 10:22 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Still and always will be concerned with this guy...

He has gotten better every year, so if that trend continues he should be roughly around the 15th best Center in the league this year. If he can end up in that 15-20 range this year then we may even resign him which will cause some around here to completely melt down.

(08-21-2017, 10:52 AM)Au165 Wrote: He has gotten better every year, so if that trend continues he should be roughly around the 15th best Center in the league this year. If he can end up in that 15-20 range this year then we may even resign him which will cause some around here to completely melt down.

He has gotten better every year? Can you provide links? He's seemed pretty stagnant to me (25th or worse).
And I will be one who will lose it if Bodine is the starter next year.

(08-21-2017, 11:05 AM)ochocincos Wrote: He has gotten better every year? Can you provide links? He's seemed pretty stagnant to me (25th or worse).
And I will be one who will lose it if Bodine is the starter next year.

You can look up his PFF, He went from worst to not worst to just below average. If we can get him to average we got other areas to worry about more so.

(08-21-2017, 11:10 AM)Au165 Wrote: You can look up his PFF, He went from worst to not worst to just below average. If we can get him to average we got other areas to worry about more so.

I can't. I don't pay for PFF premium.

(08-21-2017, 11:11 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I can't. I don't pay for PFF premium.

Me either, someone posted them a while back though....damn PFF charging for content!

(08-21-2017, 11:10 AM)Au165 Wrote: You can look up his PFF, He went from worst to not worst to just below average. If we can get him to average we got other areas to worry about more so.

I wonder how much of that is him improving, and how much of that is defenses focusing on the weakest link.

-Three years ago, he was by far the weakest link, so he got the most attention.
-Then two years ago he and Andre Smith were both weak links, so attention spread.
-Last year there was Ogbuehi and Fisher, and Boling was hurt, so maybe he was just targeted less?

Just a theory.

(08-21-2017, 11:13 AM)Au165 Wrote: Me either, someone posted them a while back though....damn PFF charging for content!

From what I can see on PFF for Russell Bodine, he was #28 C last year (scroll to bottom of link below). That's not good.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/russell-bodine/8746

Let's say he was 32nd (or worse) originally. His "improvement" level is then 1-2 spots up each year. If that trend continues, he'll take another 5-10 years before he becomes above average as a starting C. The Bengals cannot afford to wait that long.

Let's just face it. It should be much easier and faster to draft a top 3 C next year and that player should be able to perform better than Bodine (assuming the Bengals scout properly).

(08-21-2017, 11:20 AM)ochocincos Wrote: From what I can see on PFF for Russell Bodine, he was #28 C last year (scroll to bottom of link below). That's not good.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/russell-bodine/8746

Let's say he was 32nd (or worse) originally. His "improvement" level is then 1-2 spots up each year. If that trend continues, he'll take another 5-10 years before he becomes above average as a starting C. The Bengals cannot afford to wait that long.

Let's just face it. It should be much easier and faster to draft a top 3 C next year and that player should be able to perform better than Bodine (assuming the Bengals scout properly).

Here is the thing though PFF considers a 70 to be an average player. So while against his peers he may be low ranked, it does appears they believe he is at least an average player. I am telling you, the interior of our line isn't even top3 in our biggest issues right now.

(08-21-2017, 11:44 AM)Au165 Wrote: Here is the thing though PFF considers a 70 to be an average player. So while against his peers he may be low ranked, it does appears they believe he is at least an average player. I am telling you, the interior of our line isn't even top3 in our biggest issues right now.

70 is considered the very lowest for "average". The highest for "average" is 79.9. The #11 C last year (Greg Mancz) was 79.9, so he was labeled as "average" according to PFF.
Here are some data points since I had to look up select individuals and can't just get a simple list because I don't pay for premium...

Frederick DAL - #1 C 90 rating (elite)
Mack ATL - #4 C 88.7 rating (high quality)
Whitehair CHI - #6 C 85.9 rating (high quality)
Ben Jones TEN - #8 C 83 rating (above average)
JC Tretter CLE (formerly GB) - #9 C 81.4 (above average) - signed with CLE for 3-year, $16.75 mill (~$5.5 mill per year)
Greg Mancz HOU - #11 C 79.9 rating (average)
Maurkice Pouncey PIT - #13 C 78.6 rating (average)
Jeremy Zuttah BAL - #17 C 76.7 rating (average) - resigned with BAL for 2-year, $4 mill w/ incentives to go up to $6 mill ($2-3 mill per year)
Richburg NYG - #19 C 75 rating (average)
Ryan Kelly IND - #22 C 73.8 rating (average)
Bodine - #28 C 70 rating (average)


The difference in a 70 (Bodine - #28 C) and 81.4 (Tretter - #11 C) may not seem like a lot, but what it shows to me is that it should be pretty easy to find someone that can be better than 28th in the league. And a top 10 C was able to be picked up for just over $5 mill a year to a team that is a dumpster fire. The Bengals are closer to a SB than Cleveland and likely could have gotten Tretter for about the same contract (maybe even slightly less).

Michael Johnson (#103 edge last year - poor) could have been cut to free up $4 million to go toward JC Tretter (or some other OL).

(08-21-2017, 11:53 AM)ochocincos Wrote: 70 is considered the very lowest for "average". The highest for "average" is 79.9. The #11 C last year (Greg Mancz) was 79.9, so he was labeled as "average" according to PFF.
Here are some data points since I had to look up select individuals and can't just get a simple list because I don't pay for premium...

Frederick DAL - #1 C 90 rating (elite)
Mack ATL - #4 C 88.7 rating (high quality)
Whitehair CHI - #6 C 85.9 rating (high quality)
Ben Jones TEN - #8 C 83 rating (above average)
JC Tretter CLE (formerly GB) - #9 C 81.4 (above average) - signed with CLE for 3-year, $16.75 mill (~$5.5 mill per year)
Greg Mancz HOU - #11 C 79.9 rating (average)
Maurkice Pouncey PIT - #13 C 78.6 rating (average)
Jeremy Zuttah BAL - #17 C 76.7 rating (average) - resigned with BAL for 2-year, $4 mill w/ incentives to go up to $6 mill ($2-3 mill per year)
Richburg NYG - #19 C 75 rating (average)
Ryan Kelly IND - #22 C 73.8 rating (average)
Bodine - #28 C 70 rating (average)


The difference in a 70 (Bodine - #28 C) and 81.4 (Tretter - #11 C) may not seem like a lot, but what it shows to me is that it should be pretty easy to find someone that can be better than 28th in the league. And a top 10 C was able to be picked up for just over $5 mill a year to a team that is a dumpster fire. The Bengals are closer to a SB than Cleveland and likely could have gotten Tretter for about the same contract (maybe even slightly less).

Michael Johnson (#103 edge last year - poor) could have been cut to free up $4 million to go toward JC Tretter (or some other OL).

How many other starters on our team are below a 70, serious question?

(08-21-2017, 12:00 PM)Au165 Wrote: How many other starters on our team are below a 70, serious question?

Offense:
QB: Dalton (80.8)
RB: Hill (72.4), Gio (73.0)
WR: Green (89.4), LaFell (77.5), Boyd (73.0)
TE: Eifert (86.2)
FB: Hewitt (74.7)
OT: Ogbuehi (44.2), Fisher (47.8)
OG: Boling (73.0), Smith? (42.3 at OT) - assuming Hopkins will supplant by Wk 1 though
C: Bodine (70.5)

Defense:
DE: Dunlap (83.0), Johnson (43.4), Gilberry (72.2)
DT: Atkins (88.7), Sims? (68.2) - assuming he starts, but I'm guessing will be Billings
LB: Minter (77.5), Burfict (87.1), Vinny Rey (84.2)
S: Iloka (75.0), Williams (78.5)
CB: Jones (76.7), Kirkpatrick (72.4)

Bolded are those below 70. Only MJ and the OTs (and Sims and Smith if they actually start) had worse grades than Bodine.

(08-21-2017, 12:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Offense:
QB: Dalton (80.8)
RB: Hill (72.4), Gio (73.0)
WR: Green (89.4), LaFell (77.5), Boyd (73.0)
TE: Eifert (86.2)
FB: Hewitt (74.7)
OT: Ogbuehi (44.2), Fisher (47.8)
OG: Boling (73.0), Smith? (42.3 at OT) - assuming Hopkins will supplant by Wk 1 though
C: Bodine (70.5)

Defense:
DE: Dunlap (83.0), Johnson (43.4), Gilberry (72.2)
DT: Atkins (88.7), Sims? (68.2) - assuming he starts, but I'm guessing will be Billings
LB: Minter (77.5), Burfict (87.1), Vinny Rey (84.2)
S: Iloka (75.0), Williams (78.5)
CB: Jones (76.7), Kirkpatrick (72.4)

Bolded are those below 70. Only MJ and the OTs (and Sims and Smith if they actually start) had worse grades than Bodine.

Thanks, if we can get upgrades at DE (which we have) and get better play out of the tackles I feel pretty good. If Bodine can play a little better I don't really have many worries. I know after Saturday some people think the sky is falling, but I just don't worry that much in pre season. Hell Bodine had Gerald McCoy heads up over him last week and was fine.

(08-21-2017, 12:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Offense:
QB: Dalton (80.8)
RB: Hill (72.4), Gio (73.0)
WR: Green (89.4), LaFell (77.5), Boyd (73.0)
TE: Eifert (86.2)
FB: Hewitt (74.7)
OT: Ogbuehi (44.2), Fisher (47.8)
OG: Boling (73.0), Smith? (42.3 at OT) - assuming Hopkins will supplant by Wk 1 though
C: Bodine (70.5)

Defense:
DE: Dunlap (83.0), Johnson (43.4), Gilberry (72.2)
DT: Atkins (88.7), Sims? (68.2) - assuming he starts, but I'm guessing will be Billings
LB: Minter (77.5), Burfict (87.1), Vinny Rey (84.2)
S: Iloka (75.0), Williams (78.5)
CB: Jones (76.7), Kirkpatrick (72.4)

Bolded are those below 70. Only MJ and the OTs (and Sims and Smith if they actually start) had worse grades than Bodine.

A.J. Green not a 90 after the season he was having?  What does it take to get a 90?