(08-21-2017, 09:55 AM)Au165 Wrote: There is nothing concerning to me about the interior of our O line, I am actually relatively happy with it. I think Hopkins can grow into a pretty good starter, but until he gets more game time under his belt he will have his bad moments. If you tell me there is a legit Tackle out there then we can talk, at least as a back up plan. The issue is any Tackle out there right now is there for a reason, but if one gets cut for cap issues here in the next week or two I'd be up for bringing them in.

The good news (or bad depending how you look at it) is just about anybody would be an upgrade to what we have now!  We just need to scour the wire of teams that have great o-lines, like Dallas and Oakland.

Still, even if we pick and a good player it will be weeks/months before they can get comfortable in our system.

(08-22-2017, 09:48 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Nope, I trust the coaches. Bodine is not some 1st round pick we invested a bunch of money on, just the opposite he is low paid center on a rookie contract. Maybe Ml and PA and more so Vince Tobin disagree with you 100% and feel he is doing just fine. It amazes me how some think they have all the answers and their opinion is always correct. Maybe, you are dead wrong on Bodine, but you think rallying a bunch of other fans to share your opinion a player is "garbage" using words you use makes you right.

I look at it as the Bengals scouting and coaching department think Bodine is not an issue or as big an issue as you are trying to make it out to be. I am not worried about our interior line, I am worried big time about Ced and Fisher (who many are ignoring his shortcomings because they are so busy bashing Ced.

Dude.....we still have many instances of a "u" for our pocket.  That's definitely a Russell Bodine problem.  It seems as though Ludwig Van is too damn stubborn to admit his mistakes.  Dalton needs to be looking at an "inverted u", not the bottom of one.

(08-22-2017, 10:08 AM)Wyche Wrote: Dude.....we still have many instances of a "u" for our pocket.  That's definitely a Russell Bodine problem.  It seems as though Ludwig Van is too damn stubborn to admit his mistakes.  Dalton needs to be looking at an "inverted u", not the bottom of one.

I was just about to post about this. If the interior OL was not a concern, shouldn't there always be a pocket to step into if/when the edges give way?
I see it all the time with Drew Brees. He's had a pretty solid interior OL that he's been able to step up in the pocket consistently when pressure gets by the edge defenders and he's able to make a play.

That's actually why it's called a "pocket" anyway. Because the OL makes an inverted U around the QB. When the edges collapse, there should be room to move up assuming the interior OL does its job to keep interior defenders at bay.

The best way to describe the Bengals OL this year might be...

(08-22-2017, 10:28 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I was just about to post about this. If the interior OL was not a concern, shouldn't there always be a pocket to step into if/when the edges give way?
I see it all the time with Drew Brees. He's had a pretty solid interior OL that he's been able to step up in the pocket consistently when pressure gets by the edge defenders and he's able to make a play.

That's actually why it's called a "pocket" anyway. Because the OL makes an inverted U around the QB. When the edges collapse, there should be room to move up assuming the interior OL does its job to keep interior defenders at bay.

The best way to describe the Bengals OL this year might be...

I never said they were perfect. I watched Zeitler get beat last night and had 2 holding penalties so I guess the Browns should cut him. My point is those of you attacking Vince Tobin, PA or ML may just be wrong on Bodine, but your egos won't allow you to consider it. As I stated, the Bengals have a small investment in Bodine so not like he got a huge bonus and the team wants him to earn it. Why exactly doesn't Tobin bring in a high level center? You t hink these coaches and Tobin are morons or just don't want to win. Why else would they diasgree with Bengals fans? Help me out as I don't see the reasoning why these guys share your opinion Bodine sucks, but do nothing about it.

(08-22-2017, 10:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I never said they were perfect. I watched Zeitler get beat last night and had 2 holding penalties so I guess the Browns should cut him. My point is those of you attacking Vince Tobin, PA or ML may just be wrong on Bodine, but your egos won't allow you to consider it. As I stated, the Bengals have a small investment in Bodine so not like he got a huge bonus and the team wants him to earn it. Why exactly doesn't Tobin bring in a high level center? You t hink these coaches and Tobin are morons or just don't want to win. Why else would they diasgree with Bengals fans? Help me out as I don't see the reasoning why these guys share your opinion Bodine sucks, but do nothing about it.

Humans are flawed people. 
They have pride and ego.

They scouted him. They traded up to draft him. 
They gave him the starting job unchallenged. 

They have as much riding on him being "successful" as he does. 

What Bodine is, is durable and tough. 
He can make 16 starts a season and will grind through even his bad plays. 
The issue is how frequently the bad plays happen and how infrequently great plays happen. 

(08-22-2017, 11:12 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote:
Humans are flawed people. 
They have pride and ego.

They scouted him. They traded up to draft him. 
They gave him the starting job unchallenged. 

They have as much riding on him being "successful" as he does. 

What Bodine is, is durable and tough. 
He can make 16 starts a season and will grind through even his bad plays. 
The issue is how frequently the bad plays happen and how infrequently great plays happen. 

I know I am flawed, and I see it in others in this forum daily.

I always viewed Thompson as a rotation/relief dt at the most. Never considered him starter material though.

(08-22-2017, 11:30 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I know I am flawed, and I see it in others in this forum daily.

Can you ever stay on topic and not try redirecting the conversations to other posters? 

(08-22-2017, 11:38 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Can you ever stay on topic and not try redirecting the conversations to other posters? 

?

You brought up flawed people (so I addressed flawed people) so why did you mention flawed if you did not want flawed in the conversation.

(08-22-2017, 10:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I never said they were perfect. I watched Zeitler get beat last night and had 2 holding penalties so I guess the Browns should cut him. My point is those of you attacking Vince Tobin, PA or ML may just be wrong on Bodine, but your egos won't allow you to consider it. As I stated, the Bengals have a small investment in Bodine so not like he got a huge bonus and the team wants him to earn it. Why exactly doesn't Tobin bring in a high level center? You t hink these coaches and Tobin are morons or just don't want to win. Why else would they diasgree with Bengals fans? Help me out as I don't see the reasoning why these guys share your opinion Bodine sucks, but do nothing about it.

I hope you don't label me as one who has such an ego that wouldn't allow me to consider it, as it's simply not true. Bodine could turn around. Any player could turn around.
But I base my views on evidence and trends, not blind trust and belief. And so far in three years, Bodine is still a bottom-tier starter and hasn't progressed enough to give me confidence in that he will miraculously jump from 28th in the league to Top 15 within 2-3 years (which is the window this core has left).

(08-22-2017, 11:12 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Humans are flawed people. 
They have pride and ego.

They scouted him. They traded up to draft him. 
They gave him the starting job unchallenged. 

They have as much riding on him being "successful" as he does. 

What Bodine is, is durable and tough. 
He can make 16 starts a season and will grind through even his bad plays. 
The issue is how frequently the bad plays happen and how infrequently great plays happen. 

Yup......and Luvnit....straight from MB mouth:  "we don't value the G position that much".....it sure looks they feel the same way about C as well.  One season of decent play from Kyle Cook since Braham left.  That's pretty telling.......

(08-22-2017, 11:51 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I hope you don't label me as one who has such an ego that wouldn't allow me to consider it, as it's simply not true. Bodine could turn around. Any player could turn around.
But I base my views on evidence and trends, not blind trust and belief. And so far in three years, Bodine is still a bottom-tier starter and hasn't progressed enough to give me confidence in that he will miraculously jump from 28th in the league to Top 15 within 2-3 years (which is the window this core has left).

Couldn't have said it any better myself.  I don't get this "ego" thing that has crept in here lately.  We are fans of the team.  Some of us have played these positions and maybe even coached them a little.  We're just going off what we see on the field, and then using the FO actions and their words to speculate on their mindset regarding these guys.  I've said that Bodine has indeed improved, and that even Og has taken some steps forward.  The problem is, as you have correctly noted, we don't have time for this baby steps bullshit.  The time to get it done is NOW.  AD is 29, AJG too....the core of this team is all pushing 30 or there.  How long are we gonna wait on this organization to realize its mistakes and do something about it?  Alexander's ass should have been canned last season after that abomination up front.  He hand selected these guys, after all.  If not canned, he should at least be stripped of any say so in regards to talent evaluation, and demoted from Assist. HC.

(08-22-2017, 11:58 AM)Wyche Wrote: Couldn't have said it any better myself.  I don't get this "ego" thing that has crept in here lately.  We are fans of the team.  Some of us have played these positions and maybe even coached them a little.  We're just going off what we see on the field, and then using the FO actions and their words to speculate on their mindset regarding these guys.  I've said that Bodine has indeed improved, and that even Og has taken some steps forward.  The problem is, as you have correctly noted, we don't have time for this baby steps bullshit.  The time to get it done is NOW.  AD is 29, AJG too....the core of this team is all pushing 30 or there.  How long are we gonna wait on this organization to realize its mistakes and do something about it?  Alexander's ass should have been canned last season after that abomination up front.  He hand selected these guys, after all.  If not canned, he should at least be stripped of any say so in regards to talent evaluation, and demoted from Assist. HC.

Exactly. Let's play a hypothetical and say Bodine does get to Top 15 C by the end of his career. If it doesn't happen within the next 2-3 years, the Bengals will likely need upgrades across a multitude of other positions and the team stays in its perpetual cycle of good-not-great. If it's in five years, you'll likely not have Boling, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, maybe Burfict or Dalton. Will it be easier to replace Bodine now or those other players in 3-5 years?

At what point do we stop hoping for the best and start demanding action taken to actually make it happen?

Staying on topic and not getting sucked in by all the ego maniacs here, lol, but it's to bad for Thompson, I had high hopes for him. He looked good a lot of times before the injuries but I agree it was time to move on.

(08-22-2017, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly. Let's play a hypothetical and say Bodine does get to Top 15 C by the end of his career. If it doesn't happen within the next 2-3 years, the Bengals will likely need upgrades across a multitude of other positions and the team stays in its perpetual cycle of good-not-great. If it's in five years, you'll likely not have Boling, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, maybe Burfict or Dalton. Will it be easier to replace Bodine now or those other players in 3-5 years?

At what point do we stop hoping for the best and start demanding action taken to actually make it happen?

Do you honestly believe MB gives 2 shits what you or I or any other fans not employed by him demand?? You are kidding yourself if you do...

(08-22-2017, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly. Let's play a hypothetical and say Bodine does get to Top 15 C by the end of his career. If it doesn't happen within the next 2-3 years, the Bengals will likely need upgrades across a multitude of other positions and the team stays in its perpetual cycle of good-not-great. If it's in five years, you'll likely not have Boling, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, maybe Burfict or Dalton. Will it be easier to replace Bodine now or those other players in 3-5 years?

At what point do we stop hoping for the best and start demanding action taken to actually make it happen?

Absolutely.  It may not matter what is said in here to MB, but the whole purpose of a message board is to discuss ideas and opinions.  We had a censored version on the mothership where you had to somewhat toe a company line.  Thank goodness that isn't the case here. 

(08-22-2017, 12:14 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Do you honestly believe MB gives 2 shits what you or I or any other fans not employed by him demand?? You are kidding yourself if you do...

No, I think MB only cares if/when it affects his revenue. But I also personally care to analyze players, do my own research, and form my own opinions of the players and team (whether they line up with others' or not) because I like to and believe I've become a knowledgeable football fan.

I sure expected more out of Thompson than what he showed. 

(08-22-2017, 12:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Exactly. Let's play a hypothetical and say Bodine does get to Top 15 C by the end of his career. If it doesn't happen within the next 2-3 years, the Bengals will likely need upgrades across a multitude of other positions and the team stays in its perpetual cycle of good-not-great. If it's in five years, you'll likely not have Boling, Green, Atkins, Dunlap, maybe Burfict or Dalton. Will it be easier to replace Bodine now or those other players in 3-5 years?

At what point do we stop hoping for the best and start demanding action taken to actually make it happen?

It is always a fan's choice to abandon the team for any reason. But demands from fans will fall on deaf ears until they have no fan base. Right now, they do still have an acceptable fan base. The idea every player needs to be top 15 in their position for us to be successful is far reaching to me. I also don't buy we are in a small window. QB's play to they are 40 today. AJ can easily play 5 more years, but even if he does not, most teams with elite receivers never seem to win it all. The best WR on the NFL in my opinion is A. Brown and while the Steelers are highly competitive yearly, they have not been Super Bowl contenders each year. 

the 2017 draft picks, the 2018 draft picks and so on are our future as this team chooses to build primarily through the draft. Our OL is a major worry of us all right now, that  is the bad news. The good news is these guys are extremely young and just maybe they do develop into a very good unit over time. I look at our defense the past couple of years and guys have not stepped up in a big way to help Atkins, Dunlap and Burfict thus we are not an elite defense. An elite defense can win championships still with an average offense. So, we need to either be very good on both offense and defense or elite on one of them and then average to good with the other to start winning playoff games and be a true Super Bowl contender.

(08-22-2017, 12:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: No, I think MB only cares if/when it affects his revenue. But I also personally care to analyze players, do my own research, and form my own opinions of the players and team (whether they line up with others' or not) because I like to and believe I've become a knowledgeable football fan.

A lot of us do research and many like me watch all 16 games every week so not just our team, but see others as well to be able to compare the level of play of them versus us. We all form opinions and we state them. Then we disagree on each other;s opinions and in most cases have civil conversations realizing in most cases "no one will ever change my opinion" it is just that, a back and forth where neither side gives much ground.

Some believe our owner and coaches are morons and that plays into their opinion which is their right. Some believe the owner and coaches would run their mother put of town to win a Super Bowl and that is their right as well.

You always present your opinions based on your research, I respect that, but it does not mean I agree with the facts you presented as I may see something though a totally different 
lens. Posters with 2 different opinions can still be correct even though they disagree and have far different opinions.