(08-24-2017, 09:29 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Michael Johnson had one productive pass rushing year. 
Otherwise he's been mediocre. 

Even Dunlap hasn't been that consistent of a pass rusher. 

Gilberry hasn't been productive since 2013. So I'm not sure what your point on him is. 

Go look at sack leaders in the NFL. The vast majority of EDGE RUSHERS are under 270 lbs. Most fit that 265 lbs mold. 

Ends like Watt and now Bosa, do most of their damage moving inside while the OLB rushes the edge.

Edge rushers tend to do better when they aren't incredibly tall and heavy. 

Dunlap is a very rare anomaly in that regard. 

We've seen very little production from drafted DEs since Dunlap. 
What do they all have in common? Big heavy edge guys not built for rushing from DE. 

I'm really not sure what your point is wasn't Boza just drafted last year so if we draft an edge rusher a year later that means we're behind the times again you're making no sense

Also we did try Chris Carter as an edge rusher he didn't work out yeah maybe we did a bad job but it's not like we haven't tried and had to rush in the last few years again it's not like our defensive ends have been horrible for the last decade

(08-24-2017, 09:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Reminds me of that Steeler's castoff we fell in love with a couple years back.

(08-24-2017, 10:01 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Also we did try Chris Carter as an edge rusher 

Thanks. That's who I was thinking of. 

Smith and Willis have both flashed speed off the edge but also both have shown major issues tackling and finishing up the sack.

(08-24-2017, 07:44 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not sure that would happen with the commitment to seniority over talent in our organization.

we NEED speed in the pass rush. Johnson may play in RUN situations but I ASSUME Willis and Smith  play a LOT,especially on any passing down. lawson also may help the pass rush (from LB)

(08-24-2017, 07:44 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not sure that would happen with the commitment to seniority over talent in our organization.

just not accurate... here is what I found from 2012, I am pretty sure in 2011 we were in top 5 i believe youngest.. and this off season and it seems with some of the possible cuts, we will move that needle back down i believe into the low teens.  So we started out very young in 2011 and now after a playoff run with that type of youth and talent, we are starting to turn the roster over again.. which make sense

http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2016-edition/ 

You guys are on crack. Chris Smith is the highest rated DE in all of football this pre-season. I know its only pre-season but this guy is explosive as hell. He flys off the television. Clarke, MJ are straight garbage. If Chris Smith gets cut im flying to Cincy and punching mike brown in his Vag. He belongs on the starting team. Flat out
.i dont care about the woethless MJ or Clarke throw in chris Smith.

Two seasons ago the Bengals D gave up the 2nd fewest points in the entire league. That's pretty darn good regardless of sacks. I'd take the trade off 100 out of 100 times, fewer points allowed over fewer sacks. A team can lead the league in sacks and still give up a lot of points on the score board. 
Some people seem totally transfixed on sack numbers as if it's exactly the same thing as points allowed. It isn't. Sure, they help and do add up, but they're not the totality of the defensive strategy. The bottom line really is how many points go on the score board. If these guys can get to the QB and keep the scoring low then great, but if they only get to the QB, but give up a lot of points in the process it's not going to do much for the bottom line. 
Suppose a player gets 16 sacks in one season that sounds great and in that one respect it is,  but last season they played 1038 defensive snaps. Do the math. Sacks aren't as important as giving up fewer points. That's less than 1.6% of the defensive game. 

(08-24-2017, 07:14 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Young bull: I wanna run down there and fug that cow.

Old bull: Let's walk down there and fug em all!

As it relates to our defense:  Let's have a bunch of guys rotating in with high motors, great strength, and fug them over and over again!  (Especially Piggy)

(08-24-2017, 07:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: My opinion?  They are the future, and long overdue.  This team sticks with something that worked once, way too long before they decide that another direction might yield better results.

I knew you would beat me to it

I have been clamoring for a speed option off the edge, and now we have three???  What I love best about the selection of Willis is that he (and apparently Smith) can also be impactful from the left side.  Dunlap doesn't need to play every snap.  They need fresh bodies coming in to wear out the opposition.

They need to put them in the with #1s and see what they can create.  MJs ineffectiveness from the outside is such a waste of the talents of Geno and Dunlap.  Billings has not been all-world, but he has played against #1s and he has at least held his ground.  I think that is where he will need to have the most improvement in the NFL.  When Billings gets cut loose, I think he will be a very productive pass rusher especially with the likes of Dunlap, Willis, Smith, and Lawson around him.  

The future is now.  Speed, strength, rotation...and not in the fourth quarter, but right from the start.  

(08-25-2017, 08:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I knew you would beat me to it

I have been clamoring for a speed option off the edge, and now we have three???  What I love best about the selection of Willis is that he (and apparently Smith) can also be impactful from the left side.  Dunlap doesn't need to play every snap.  They need fresh bodies coming in to wear out the opposition.

They need to put them in the with #1s and see what they can create.  MJs ineffectiveness from the outside is such a waste of the talents of Geno and Dunlap.  Billings has not been all-world, but he has played against #1s and he has at least held his ground.  I think that is where he will need to have the most improvement in the NFL.  When Billings gets cut loose, I think he will be a very productive pass rusher especially with the likes of Dunlap, Willis, Smith, and Lawson around him.  

The future is now.  Speed, strength, rotation...and not in the fourth quarter, but right from the start.  

I also like the versatility that they allow the DC to call.  If we want to show a 3-4 look?  Fine, we don't need to change out half the personnel grouping.

(08-24-2017, 07:58 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: My Opinion: Do it in real football games, or all the talk/hype is meaningless.

Margus Hunt: 6 sacks in 15 preseason games with Bengals
Margus Hunt: 1.5 sacks in 44 regular season games with Bengals

To be fair, Margus was playing against scrubs more than Willis and/or Smith, but I hope they give them a shot against the Skins to prove not only can they rush the passer, but they can stop the rush.  That is, supposedly, their biggest hangup as MJ is a decent run-stuffing end.  

I can't help but wonder if Hardison could get some snaps at RDE in base, and be the rotational guy that could move inside for Willis, Smith, or Lawson.  

I liked Smith when he played against us as he was the one Jags DL who we could not block. You don't trade for a guy, then he has an exceptional preseason (one of best in NFL) and then cut him. He is a 2017 Bengal as is Willis. I am optimistic (but I am mostly optimistic) the speed we added in the draft on both sides of the ball will help us make dramatic improvements.

Looking back at 2016, we were in almost every game and lost I believe 5 or 6 by less than 7 points.That is one play needed to turn around our record. I love offense, but I have always wanted a disruptive intimidating defense capable of dominance. They have not looked close yet, but I am hopeful this is our best defense ever, if so it will be a fun season.

(08-25-2017, 08:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I liked Smith when he played against us as he was the one Jags DL who we could not block. You don't trade for a guy, then he has an exceptional preseason (one of best in NFL) and then cut him. He is a 2017 Bengal as is Willis. I am optimistic (but I am mostly optimistic) the speed we added in the draft on both sides of the ball will help us make dramatic improvements.

Looking back at 2016, we were in almost every game and lost I believe 5 or 6 by less than 7 points.That is one play needed to turn around our record. I love offense, but I have always wanted a disruptive intimidating defense capable of dominance. They have not looked close yet, but I am hopeful this is our best defense ever, if so it will be a fun season.

Why do you think that was the case?  It wasn't because of the defense, gave up less than 20 pts/game.  The problem was the offense didn't score nearly enough.  I blame the OC and Marvin Lewis for not calling games aggressively enough.

(08-24-2017, 07:57 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He'd be more of the same. base DE but has to play inside to get pass rush. 
Granted, we do need more depth inside pass rushing but we also have a desperate need for guys who can rush from the edge. 

I like Demarcus Walker as a Gilberry replacement.
Happy the Bengals got Willis and Lawson though for pure edge terror.
Only pure edge outside the likes of Garrett and Thomas I wanted more than Willis or Lawson was TJ Watt, who went earlier than I (most?) expected.

(08-25-2017, 09:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why do you think that was the case?  It wasn't because of the defense, gave up less than 20 pts/game.  The problem was the offense didn't score nearly enough.  I blame the OC and Marvin Lewis for not calling games aggressively enough.

Exactly. Cincinnati was 12th in offensive yards per game but was 24th in points per game. Outside of Jeremy Hill, the team was really bad at getting into the end zone. Dalton only had 18 passing TDs, which is the lowest season in his career.

Hopefully John Ross and Joe Mixon along with a healthy Eifert and AJ Green vastly improve this ranking this year. While people talk about Ross's ability to stretch the field, he was actually a dominant weapon in the red zone.

Quote:The spot where Ross (5' 11", 188 pounds) is better than his physical profile may suggest is in the red zone. Among his 17 touchdowns were a healthy dose of home-run plays, but Ross also is an effective weapon closer to the goal line. That’s a nod to his quickness as a route runner, as well as his ability to find and adjust to the football. Washington did not have to replace him with a larger receiver inside the 20.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/03/john-ross-nfl-draft-scouting-report

Quote:Ross himself led the FBS with 12 receiving touchdowns on red-zone plays in 2016.

http://www.espn.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/130084/what-you-need-to-know-about-combine-speedster-john-ross

(08-25-2017, 08:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I knew you would beat me to it

I have been clamoring for a speed option off the edge, and now we have three???  What I love best about the selection of Willis is that he (and apparently Smith) can also be impactful from the left side.  Dunlap doesn't need to play every snap.  They need fresh bodies coming in to wear out the opposition.

They need to put them in the with #1s and see what they can create.  MJs ineffectiveness from the outside is such a waste of the talents of Geno and Dunlap.  Billings has not been all-world, but he has played against #1s and he has at least held his ground.  I think that is where he will need to have the most improvement in the NFL.  When Billings gets cut loose, I think he will be a very productive pass rusher especially with the likes of Dunlap, Willis, Smith, and Lawson around him.  

The future is now.  Speed, strength, rotation...and not in the fourth quarter, but right from the start.  

This is why I think we can dominant as a game wears on so by 4th quarter we have fresh DL against tired OL. I also think our DL may be more versatile than our past DL's going from a 4-3 to a 3-4 for example because of the speed.

(08-25-2017, 09:34 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Why do you think that was the case?  It wasn't because of the defense, gave up less than 20 pts/game.  The problem was the offense didn't score nearly enough.  I blame the OC and Marvin Lewis for not calling games aggressively enough.

I blame no Burfict early and a slightly out of shape Burfict when he returned. I blame our OL that when from top 5 to 10 in the league to one of the worst in the league. An OC can't call plays at will if the OL can't block. I also think we can't forget the losses of Eifert, Green and Gio. I am not blaming 2016 on our defense, I am simply saying a much better defense in 2017 would allow our offense which we know is a work in progress (our OL) to keep us in and win games while the offense hopefully progresses each week.

I love how serious Willis is.

Didn't even bother trying to be funny for the talent show.

Dude lives eats and sleeps football.

(08-25-2017, 10:19 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is why I think we can dominant as a game wears on so by 4th quarter we have fresh DL against tired OL. I also think our DL may be more versatile than our past DL's going from a 4-3 to a 3-4 for example because of the speed.

True.  I just don't want to wait until the fourth quarter.  Marvin seems to hope to keep games close and pull it out in the fourth.  I want the offense and defense to attack.  Offense, try to score every time you get the ball....regardless of the score.  That sounds common sense, but we have all seen the weak-ass drives that were meant to only keep the clock running and result in a punt.  

Defense?  Create turnovers.  Sacks, fumbles, interceptions.  I think we have the potential to see a LOT more of that this year.

And, for the love of God, if you get up by two TDs in the first half, go for a three TD lead, then a four TD lead, etc.  

Keep the damn foot on the gas.