(08-29-2017, 04:20 PM)Joelist Wrote: What made their "defense" sillier - and pretty much no one outside of Steeler fans bought it - was they constantly tried to misdirect which rule should be in play. Shazier was guilty of spearing (a.k.a targeting with the crown of the helmet) pretty flagrantly. He launched himself leading with his helmet right at Gio's head. 

I disagree. I think it was their insistence on that he never "lined up" the hit as to why it was legal even though there's not even a hint of the idea of lining up in the rules as to what made their defense "sillier".

(08-29-2017, 01:16 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You know that Burfict had 17 personal fouls in 35 games in college.

I also read a scouting report that says he leads with his head constantly when tackling. This is from college. This is why he gets so many concussions. His technique hasn't been cleaned up.

How the hell else are you supposed to tackle? I mean really, so tired of hearing this. You want his head to snap back when he tackles, so the defender gets hurt. It's always going to look like your leading head first. Unless your freakin Raydon that can fly threw the air feet first to tackle.

Shit not done! You put you damn head down (shoulder) and wrap them up. The persons body being tackled does not always cooperate. So if I bend down to tackle( cause you know can't tackle high) and the receiver lowers his head to absorb the impact, bam you just got helmet to helmet contact on a routine legal tackle.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/08/29/cincinnati-bengals-vontaze-burfict-maintains-legal-hit-on-kansas-city-fullback/612113001/

Jim O with another great article.
(Best Bengals Writer we've had in a long time.)

(08-29-2017, 03:36 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: Rugby players are laughing at these stupid "hit" rules.

Tennis players are laughing at these stupid "hit" rules.

Another twist to this http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/29/alberto-riveron-vontaze-burfict-hit-violated-two-different-rules/

The new NFL senior vp of officiating said there were two rules in question. One was the hit to head and neck (which we all pretty much agree didn't happen). And the second was it was an unnecessary hit to the receiver in question, as the ball was thrown elsewhere. Doesnt matter on whether it came from the side or rear, but that the ball wasn't thrown to him.

Quote:Initial reports suggested that Bengals linebacker Vontaze Burfict‘s five-game suspension arose solely from an illegal hit on a defenseless receiver who was in the process of running a pass route. As new NFL senior V.P. of officiating Alberto Riveron tells it, another rule comes into play.

Without delving excessively into the details of the Burfict case, which is pending on appeal, Riveron said in a Tuesday morning interview with PFT Live that Burfict also applied an unnecessary hit to Chiefs fullback Anthony Sherman after quarterback Alex Smith had thrown the ball elsewhere.

That’s an important point, because hearing officer James Thrash easily could conclude that the hit to Sherman did not land in his head or neck area, making it legal. Making it potentially illegal could be the unnecessary nature of the hit, if Thrash believes that Burfict saw or could have seen that the ball was out. If it was indeed an unnecessary hit, it wouldn’t matter that Burfict didn’t hit Sherman in the head or the neck.

Also per JimO's twitter, Marvin got a bit heated when asked about it. He clearly is pretty pissed. https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/902607785401180164

(08-29-2017, 04:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Another twist to this http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/29/alberto-riveron-vontaze-burfict-hit-violated-two-different-rules/

The new NFL senior vp of officiating said there were two rules in question. One was the hit to head and neck (which we all pretty much agree didn't happen). And the second was it was an unnecessary hit to the receiver in question, as the ball was thrown elsewhere. Doesnt matter on whether it came from the side or rear, but that the ball wasn't thrown to him.



Also per JimO's twitter, Marvin got a bit heated when asked about it. He clearly is pretty pissed. https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/902607785401180164

As he should be. This is clearly not worthy of anything close to five games. Hell, it's really not worthy of any sort of suspension but it is Burfict and we all know how much the higher ups love Burfict   I'll be shocked if this appeal changes anything. Hell I wouldn't be shocked if they added more games because "we looked further at the incident in question, from every angle possible, and in addition to our initial findings, we also determined that Mr. Burfict *insert bullshit offense here* and he *insert further bullshit here* while failing to *insert avoidable bullshit here*. Due to this, Mr. Burfict must now serve an 8-game suspension..."

(08-29-2017, 05:06 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: As he should be. This is clearly not worthy of anything close to five games. Hell, it's really not worthy of any sort of suspension but it is Burfict and we all know how much the higher ups love Burfict   I'll be shocked if this appeal changes anything. Hell I wouldn't be shocked if they added more games because "we looked further at the incident in question, from every angle possible, and in addition to our initial findings, we also determined that Mr. Burfict *insert bullshit offense here* and he *insert further bullshit here* while failing to *insert avoidable bullshit here*. Due to this, Mr. Burfict must now serve an 8-game suspension..."

"He will also be staked to the ground surrounded by nests of angry fire ants."

In other words the league is already beginning to spin on this because they know they got caught here and there was no basis for their action.

Was a thread at the end off last season that inferred the league is rigged. Guess what - this is just another piece off evidence. This is terribly upsetting to me as I've been a fan since 68 - have always hoped Paul's team would win an SB, and my mid-west upbringing would make me hang in there till the bitter end. But this stuff is starting to wear on me and I start too ask myself why I care anymore?. If all of Cincinnati quit watching the NFl, the new York office could care less, they'd just find another market to move the franchise to. Probably London our Mexico city just to rub salt in our wounds. Dumb big market mother effers! Pissed!

What was the original violation? They can't just go back and say oops your right it's not a head/neck shot, let's see wgat else we can find. Oh ok here we go, but he also violated this rule. Bullshit, either it was a vicious hit that warrented all this damn suspension talk or it nothing. Don't think he should be suspended a single game if they back track and say it was unnecessary roughness. Fine him and move on.

(08-29-2017, 04:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Another twist to this http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/29/alberto-riveron-vontaze-burfict-hit-violated-two-different-rules/

The new NFL senior vp of officiating said there were two rules in question. One was the hit to head and neck (which we all pretty much agree didn't happen). And the second was it was an unnecessary hit to the receiver in question, as the ball was thrown elsewhere. Doesnt matter on whether it came from the side or rear, but that the ball wasn't thrown to him.



Also per JimO's twitter, Marvin got a bit heated when asked about it. He clearly is pretty pissed. https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/902607785401180164

Really trying to say it was an unnecessary hit? What a load of crap.

(08-29-2017, 10:17 AM)Savagehenry54 Wrote: Yep.  You don't let a receiver cross your face unchecked on those shallow crossing routes, LBS are supposed to hit those guys.  Bengals staff should gather video of other lbs doing the exact same thing this preseason cuz certainly they have been, and submit it to the league.

Even more disturbing than this bullshit is that the new rule they're citing....the first example of "defenseless posture" states that "a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass, (passing posture)" is a defenseless player.  According to the rule the way it is worded, it is literally illegal to hit a qb who has begun his throwing motion.....haven't seen it called yet but the way it's written is very clear.  A qb in the act of throwing, is considered defenseless and can't be legally hit.

Spot on Savage, good to see you back on the boards.

(08-29-2017, 09:08 AM)Wyche Wrote: Thing is Murdock.....92 was only suspended ONCE for ONE game.  Let that sink in.  Fines were his punishment, and in 2010, the league actually returned some of the money.

https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/nfl-pittsburgh-steelers-news/2015/2/7/7995405/james-harrison-has-racked-up-150000-in-fines-since-2002

That literally makes me want to vomit.

The ankle twist and nut punch were bush league moves, but Harrison has gone above and beyond Burfict in terms of hits intended to end careers. He tried to kill Colt McCoy and even body slammed a fan...but Burfict is the bad guy.

(08-29-2017, 04:55 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Another twist to this http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/08/29/alberto-riveron-vontaze-burfict-hit-violated-two-different-rules/

The new NFL senior vp of officiating said there were two rules in question. One was the hit to head and neck (which we all pretty much agree didn't happen). And the second was it was an unnecessary hit to the receiver in question, as the ball was thrown elsewhere. Doesnt matter on whether it came from the side or rear, but that the ball wasn't thrown to him.



Also per JimO's twitter, Marvin got a bit heated when asked about it. He clearly is pretty pissed. https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/902607785401180164

I'm actually impressed with Marvin on this and as harsh as I have been, I have to say kudos to Marvin on this. He is pissed and defending his player and being vocal about it. Not saying "we'll let the appeal process happen" or any other politically correct stuff. Marvin is flat out saying the league is wrong and good for him.

Jim Owczarski‏Verified account @JimOwczarski 9m9 minutes ago

#Bengals Vontaze Burfict waiting on appeal: 'It's not over yet.'
The cases have been made. No decision today.

https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/902666234331877376

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/08/29/cincinnati-bengals-vontaze-burfict-maintains-legal-hit-on-kansas-city-fullback/612113001/

Quote:Burfict and representatives for the Bengals, the NFL and the NFLPA held a conference call with Thrash on Tuesday evening.

Looks like no news on decision going to happen today. No information on when either.

(08-29-2017, 08:07 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Jim Owczarski‏Verified account @JimOwczarski  9m9 minutes ago

#Bengals Vontaze Burfict waiting on appeal: 'It's not over yet.'  
The cases have been made. No decision today.

https://twitter.com/JimOwczarski/status/902666234331877376

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/08/29/cincinnati-bengals-vontaze-burfict-maintains-legal-hit-on-kansas-city-fullback/612113001/


Looks like no news on decision going to happen today. No information on when either.

You would think the league could hire a guy with more experience as a player and more talent as a player then James Thrash. That's Mike Brown like bargain basement shopping there.

(08-28-2017, 01:05 AM)Joelist Wrote: I already detailed above how to put a stop to this nonsense. But it takes backbone and the ability to make as threat and carry it out. 

If Mikey, Katie and Troy called an emergency meeting and flat out state that unless the suspension goes away AND the bias issue is addressed they will VERY publicly call out the league on its integrity issues and hire investigators to look into not only Goodell but every ref involved with every questionable call they can find that went against the Bengals for the last ten years. State that they will make it their mission to bring down the league and personally bring down Goodell. And give them 24 hours to comply. 

Do that and the owners would panic and the suspension would disappear.

The league can script the game anyway they want as long as it's considered entertainment and not for gambling and the league can blackball any player they choose. 
The Bengals organization as a member of the cartel are in on the fix along with the rest of the team owners.
The only people who have a legitimate complaint are fans and the only recourse we have is to not buy tickets and merchandise, period which is the single biggest reason the league is opposed to legal gambling on games. Once it's known or lets say widely suspected that the league is in cahoots with gambling they're done for and they know it. 
As entertainment they're completely free to script outcomes of games any way they choose and to suspend, expell or otherwise blackball players, coaches or anyone else they deem detrimental to their profits. 
The Bengals and the Brown family might not agree with league actions, but they're not about to kill the goose laying golden eggs for a one Vontez Burfict..  

(08-29-2017, 08:45 PM)grampahol Wrote: The league can script the game anyway they want as long as it's considered entertainment and not for gambling and the league can blackball any player they choose. 
The Bengals organization as a member of the cartel are in on the fix along with the rest of the team owners.
The only people who have a legitimate complaint are fans and the only recourse we have is to not buy tickets and merchandise, period which is the single biggest reason the league is opposed to legal gambling on games. Once it's known or lets say widely suspected that the league is in cahoots with gambling they're done for and they know it. 
As entertainment they're completely free to script outcomes of games any way they choose and to suspend, expell or otherwise blackball players, coaches or anyone else they deem detrimental to their profits. 
The Bengals and the Brown family might not agree with league actions, but they're not about to kill the goose laying golden eggs for a one Vontez Burfict..  

You're missing the point behind the exercise. It isn't to protect Burflict but rather to serve notice that the bias will not be tolerated any longer. Send the message that the bias stops or you go nuclear and don't care about the consequences and the other owners will back down and reign in at least the worst of the bias. 

(08-29-2017, 09:05 PM)Joelist Wrote: You're missing the point behind the exercise. It isn't to protect Burflict but rather to serve notice that the bias will not be tolerated any longer. Send the message that the bias stops or you go nuclear and don't care about the consequences and the other owners will back down and reign in at least the worst of the bias. 

I believe that is called mutually assured destruction.

For it to work though, the threat would have to be made in private not in public at first. If the teams calls out and threatens the league, then the league backs down it validates everything and the NFL is screwed.

That threat has to happen in a private closed door meeting and has to feel sincere, and on top of it the Brown family has to be willing to give up millions of dollars if the league calls their bluff, they push forward and it causes major losses in revenue.

The only group that can make a play here....sponsors. If a company like P&G said, hey we are done buying ads during games if this crap continues, that would make a change. The league wouldn't risk losing that $$$