(09-02-2017, 04:10 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I literally listed guys who improved here in Cincinnati compared to the collegiate expectations. 

Your response was "it wasn't the OL coach"

How is this on me? 

No, I never said it wasn't the Oline coach. I said I didn't know if it was thanks to the OL coach or in spite of the Oline coach. I said I didn't really know, and that nobody did. And then I listed examples of players who were "PA's guys". Offering reasons why maybe... Just maybe PA doesn't have a great eye for talent. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I think it's "on you" either.

(09-02-2017, 03:57 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass could see I'm listing RECENT players. 

Anyone who doesn't have their head up Paul Alexander's ass (not sure why we had to get all rude) could see that Kyle Cook came into the NFL in 2007. Andrew Whitworth came into the league in the 2nd round of the 2006 draft. How could people see that you were listing recent players, when Whitworth was 11 full seasons ago?

I mean, how recent is that? Even then, your list still only contains 2 players (Whitworth, Boling) who became good in those 11 years, and one of them was a 2nd round pick.

(09-02-2017, 04:14 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: No, I never said it wasn't the Oline coach. I said I didn't know if it was thanks to the OL coach or in spite of the Oline coach. I said I didn't really know, and that nobody did. And then I listed examples of players who were "PA's guys". Offering reasons why maybe... Just maybe PA doesn't have a great eye for talent. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I think it's "on you" either.

You do understand how silly it is to say, I think all these guys just magically improved here but it wasn't the OL coach....

(09-02-2017, 04:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Anyone who doesn't have their head up Paul Alexander's ass (not sure why we had to get all rude) could see that Kyle Cook came into the NFL in 2007. Andrew Whitworth came into the league in the 2nd round of the 2006 draft. How could people see that you were listing recent players, when Whitworth was 11 years ago?

I mean, how recent is that? Even then, your list still only contains 2 players (Whitworth, Boling) who became good in those 11 years, and one of them was a 2nd round pick.

Because drafting has been shit. 
Coach can only work with what they draft. 

being a good coach does not make one a good scout 

(09-02-2017, 04:14 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Raw project OT. 

"Played in 50 games and started in 35. Considered to be "more polished" than former Oregon Duck and first-round guard Kyle Long by his offensive line coach. Third-team All-American and First-team All-Pac 12 in 2014 starting 13 games at left tackle after moving over from the right side. Missed Washington State game due to leg injury. Made 11 starts at right tackle in 2013, and was named honorable mention All-Pac 12 in 2012 after making 11 starts at right tackle. Received Oregon's "Pancake Club" award in 2013 and 2012 for most pancake blocks. In 2011, played 13 games as a reserve right guard. Standout tight end and defensive lineman for Traverse City West High School in Michigan. Named first-team all-state and All-Big North as a defensive lineman."

(09-02-2017, 04:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: "Played in 50 games and started in 35. Considered to be "more polished" than former Oregon Duck and first-round guard Kyle Long by his offensive line coach. Third-team All-American and First-team All-Pac 12 in 2014 starting 13 games at left tackle after moving over from the right side. Missed Washington State game due to leg injury. Made 11 starts at right tackle in 2013, and was named honorable mention All-Pac 12 in 2012 after making 11 starts at right tackle. Received Oregon's "Pancake Club" award in 2013 and 2012 for most pancake blocks. In 2011, played 13 games as a reserve right guard. Standout tight end and defensive lineman for Traverse City West High School in Michigan. Named first-team all-state and All-Big North as a defensive lineman."

More polished than Kyle Long is an important qualifier there. He played two seasons on the OL after switching from DL
Important mark to remember when talking "more polished" 

(09-02-2017, 04:19 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: More polished than Kyle Long is an important qualifier there. He played two seasons on the OL after switching from DL
Important mark to remember when talking "more polished" 

Jake Fisher was projected to be a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. I can also point to quotes that considered him the most complete exterior zone-blocker in the draft.

But you can roll with PA has gotten more out of him than expected if you want. 

(09-02-2017, 04:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Jake Fisher was projected to be a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. I can also point to quotes that considered him the most complete exterior zone-blocker in the draft.

But you can roll with PA has gotten more out of him than expected if you want. 

What does that have to do with being a raw player? Raw players get drafted in the top 10. Are they magically not raw?

Is outside zone the only play? 
His pass pro left a lot to work on. 
His power run needed refinement. 

(09-02-2017, 04:16 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: You do understand how silly it is to say, I think all these guys just magically improved here but it wasn't the OL coach....

Well I don't know if magic was involved, but you do understand how silly it is to assume they only improved because PA was involved... 

There are a lot of factors that go into improving as a player. Personally, I believe the likes of Andrew Whitworth would have become an All Star if my sister was his position coach. 

(09-02-2017, 04:26 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Well I don't know if magic was involved, but you do understand how silly it is to assume they only improved because PA was involved... 

There are a lot of factors that go into improving as a player. Personally, I believe the likes of Andrew Whitworth would have become an All Star if my sister was his position coach. 

My argument was never ONLY him, yours was it was in spite of him 
He played a role it in it.

Willie Anderson has said as much about him. 

(09-02-2017, 04:24 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: What does that have to do with being a raw player? Raw players get drafted in the top 10. Are they magically not raw?

Is outside zone the only play? 
His pass pro left a lot to work on. 
His power run needed refinement. 

Dude played in 50 games in college started 35 and you consider him a raw prospect that PA molded. We'll just let that stand on its own merit. 

(09-02-2017, 04:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dude played in 50 games in college started 35 and you consider him a raw prospect that PA molded. We'll just let that stand on its own merit. 

Again, games played does not equate to refined technique. 
if that were the case, Ereck Flowers wouldn't have issues. 

(09-02-2017, 03:53 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Both Gilberry and Clarke are terrible. So I dont get that logic either. 

He is terrible from the edge and while his only snaps should come from inside, he's not a DT. So when Geno needs a series off and we have 2 NT on the field teams will march up the field passing. 

No, I wanted to keep him over Sims. Who is regressing. 

Just heard we cut Clarke so my post was pretty much moot anyways.

I guess i agree with everything you said here, i just hope either Billings or Glasgow can show some pass rush.

Sims has been regressing no doubt, i just didn't see them cutting him as they started him all Preseason next to Geno
even though he looked bad. Just want to see Billings playing next to Geno, been calling for this for years it seems and
it is very frustrating.

(09-02-2017, 03:54 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Is it official we are keeping Clarke ??  if we keep 8 and count Lawson as a End .. Clarke is cut.. also this could be the waiver wire pickup.. a DE or a OT for depth

Might be able to find some good ones out there no doubt Essex.

Surprised they went heavy on TE with the UDFA. Also not impressed with DT depth. Thought Williams should have made it with Billings and Glasgow untested.

(09-02-2017, 04:28 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: My argument was never ONLY him, yours was it was in spite of him 
He played a role it in it.

Willie Anderson has said as much about him. 

Again, I never said it was in spite of him. I questioned it (there is a difference). And you're not dong yourself any favors with your other responses in this thread.

Honest question, are you related to PA or something? 

(09-02-2017, 04:36 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Again, I never said it was in spite of him. I questioned it (there is a difference). And you're not dong yourself any favors with your other responses in this thread.

Honest question, are you related to PA or something? 

No?

What responses?

With bfine? Eh. I gave up on actually talking with him when he kept lying about me. Im just bored today. 

(09-02-2017, 04:09 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Clarke and Hardison gone

Thought Hardison had a ton of potential when we drafted him.

I will give PA a little credit on one player, Hopkins has looked good especially in the run game.

And he was an UDFA which is saying a lot.

But i agree with the others as usual about PA, he needs more polished players coming out of the draft to work with.

It is not a coincidence Whit and Boling are very good Lineman, they were pretty polished coming out. Boling was a steal
in the 4th round. I also like Westerman who is also looking good. But he was also a pretty polished pass blocker and so
was Zeitler. We need to get a polished Center or even better another O-line coach.

(09-02-2017, 04:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I will give PA a little credit on one player, Hopkins has looked good especially in the run game.

And he was an UDFA which is saying a lot.

But i agree with the others as usual about PA, he needs more polished players coming out of the draft to work with.

It is not a coincidence Whit and Boling are very good Lineman, they were pretty polished coming out. Boling was a steal
in the 4th round. I also like Westerman who is also looking good. But he was also a pretty polished pass blocker and so
was Zeitler. We need to get a polished Center or even better another O-line coach.

Name me one OL coach who consistently churns out players without "polish" from college

(09-02-2017, 04:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Dude played in 50 games in college started 35 and you consider him a raw prospect that PA molded. We'll just let that stand on its own merit. 

Remind me to give you a rep once you're not longer in bad boy status.   :andy:


Bengals Rushing YPA in the Lewis era...
2016: 24th
2015: 23rd
2014: 10th
2013: 27th
2012: 20th
2011: 27th
2010: 32nd
2009: 16th
2008: 29th
2007: 26th
2006: 26th
2005: 9th
2004: 14th
2003: 14th

Breathe in that Paul Alexander genius.

(09-02-2017, 04:39 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Name me one OL coach who consistently churns out players without "polish" from college

Dante Scarmecchia