Can we hold this guy accountable for once. All I heard about him over the past couple of seasons is how great he is and how awesome this roster has been . Well it isn't anymore and he is all to blame. We overspend on average old players like V. Rey and Pacman. The only free agent we ever spend on is an average one dimensional  LB who plays 25% of the time. We have wasted at least 3 3rd Rd picks in the last 3 years. We will overpay an average player but god for bid if we go one cent over for a great player.

We had 2 great drafts. The one where we got Dalton, Green, and Boling...and Atkins and Dunlap. We've lived off of that reputation.

Our drafts since then have been average to below average to bad in the year we took Ced and Fisher.

In Tobins defense...most teams sign free agents to upgrade a roster. I don't know that any team gets much better drafting only. Teams use free agency to add starters.

I hopped off the Tobin bandwagon when he drafted Ced and Fisher back to back.

Still pisses me off.

(09-10-2017, 06:26 PM)JumboTron Wrote: I hopped off the Tobin bandwagon when he drafted Ced and Fisher back to back.

Still pisses me off.

Heh - We had 2 great drafts and everyone speculated that Katie or Tobin was calling the shots. Then the drafts got average to bad...

Maybe we just had 2 lucky drafts? Sometimes you get lucky.

Green wasn't a tough pick. Dalton or Mallet were the QB's available and Mallet had red flags.

Tobin can't make the offensive coordinator have a friggin clue, either. This team has talent and the defense played really, really well except for one illegal pick play (of course, not flagged) but the offense was pathetic at best.

I haven't seen zampese call a single play that we didn't see in the Hue Jackson offense. He's done nothing to make this offense take a step forward. In the NFL, if you aren't going forward you're going backwards.

We have some really good talent on this team. Like stated before, it's not Tobins fault MB is afraid to move on from a mediocre coach.

With no offensive line you're plays all look like they were poorly designed.

It's really all about execution. Coordinators don't just call plays that totally fool everyone. You block. You execute.

Im not a fan of Tobin myself anymore, havent been for a few years now. But how much say does Marvin have in the process, or the assistant coaches? We really dont know that to a certainty.

But we do know with a certainty who sits on top of Bengaldom, and it all trickles down from them.

(09-10-2017, 06:58 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Im not a fan of Tobin myself anymore, havent been for a few years now. But how much say does Marvin have in the process, or the assistant coaches? We really dont know that to a certainty.

But we do know with a certainty who sits on top of Bengaldom, and it all trickles down from them.

Maybe if we didn't have a woefully small scouting department compared to other teams in the AFC North...our coaches wouldn't be scouts too.

Exactly. We have the same GM in place who hasn't won a playoff game in 26+ years.

I think the problem is that the FO has determined that some positions should only be taken in certain rounds. As a result we keep picking the same couple of positions based on what round it is, regardless of what players are actually available.

(09-10-2017, 07:04 PM)blt4584 Wrote: I think the problem is that the FO has determined that some positions should only be taken in certain rounds. As a result we keep picking the same couple of positions based on what round it is, regardless of what players are actually available.

Great!  You've made the realization!  It doesn't matter who we have coaching, or directing player/personnel, when the shots are still being called from the top of the organization.  They look at it simply as a business, and only invest the minimal amount into labor, in order to put out just enough of an exciting product, to give them a return on their investment.

(09-10-2017, 06:34 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Heh - We had 2 great drafts and everyone speculated that Katie or Tobin was calling the shots. Then the drafts got average to bad...

Maybe we just had 2 lucky drafts? Sometimes you get lucky.

Green wasn't a tough pick. Dalton or Mallet were the QB's available and Mallet had red flags.

Kaepernick was available then too.

Btw, anyone notice that they picks based on need actually have been decent? It's the BPA/draft for the future picks that haven't done much.


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(09-10-2017, 06:22 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Can we hold this guy accountable for once. All I heard about him over the past couple of seasons is how great he is and how awesome this roster has been . Well it isn't anymore and he is all to blame. We overspend on average old players like V. Rey and Pacman. The only free agent we ever spend on is an average one dimensional  LB who plays 25% of the time. We have wasted at least 3 3rd Rd picks in the last 3 years. We will overpay an average player but god for bid if we go one cent over for a great player.

Who is Duke Tolbin?

(09-10-2017, 06:58 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Im not a fan of Tobin myself anymore, havent been for a few years now. But how much say does Marvin have in the process, or the assistant coaches? We really dont know that to a certainty.

But we do know with a certainty who sits on top of Bengaldom, and it all trickles down from them.

YUP !

The narrative for several years now has generally been MB has stepped back and Katie, Marvin, and Duke are calling the shots.

I've maintained and still do that's a giant load of BULL _ _ _ T ! Mike may not be sitting in on every meeting, living at the Stadium 24/7, etc. But make no mistake about who still signs the checks. 

I fully believe our current O-line train wreck was 100% MB directed.

Tobin was blown way out of proportion BTW

Didn't PA actually "stand on a table" for Ogbuehi?

(09-10-2017, 11:19 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Didn't PA actually "stand on a table" for Ogbuehi?

Yup! :paul:

(09-10-2017, 11:19 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: Didn't PA actually "stand on a table" for Ogbuehi?

Indeed he was. Also, if Ced wasn't there at 21 in 2015, guess who Marvin and Co were leaning towards?

Jake Fisher.

(09-10-2017, 09:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Btw, anyone notice that they picks based on need actually have been decent? It's the BPA/draft for the future picks that haven't done much.

True, but part of that is probably the fact that our BPA's get drafted and don't get put in because they're buried on a chart or injured. We get better results from the other guys because they show up and play.

(09-11-2017, 04:24 PM)Benton Wrote: True, but part of that is probably the fact that our BPA's get drafted and don't get put in because they're buried on a chart or injured. We get better results from the other guys because they show up and play.

I'm right there with ya. It feels like this regime thinks the team is so good that they can afford to have players sit for a couple years to groom, but in reality some of the starters desperately needed to be upgraded faster than that.