(09-11-2017, 10:42 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton is what he is. He's somewhere between the 12-16th best QB in the NFL...when he has a good offensive line.

Without an offensive line and under pressure...he's going to be somewhere between the 20-25th best QB.

Really no QB is great when their line is terrible. And make no mistake, we start 4 guys who shouldn't start in the NFL on the offensive line.

A new coach may see it that way, they may not. Statistically, he was one of the worst QBs handling pressure in the NFL last year.

(09-11-2017, 10:44 AM)Au165 Wrote: A new coach may see it that way, they may not. Statistically, he was one of the worst QBs handling pressure in the NFL last year.

It reminds me of the days when we had a largely immobile QB in Palmer, and we let him get pummeled with a shoddy unit up front.  If you KNOW your QB can't move, or is shaky under pressure.....why don't you do EVERYTHING in your power to assure as minimal pressure as possible gets to them instead of saying "we don't value those positions"?

I do believe Dalton has got to be feeling his seat getting a little warm, even if it's self-imposed. Let's consider:

1.The Bengals have an option or an 'out' in Dalton's contract after this season that would only cost them 2.4 mil in dead cap.

2. The Bengals REFUSED to shop or trade McCarron, even though they may have benefitted in other areas by doing so.

I'm not saying the two are related, but who knows if the front office hasn't asked themselves....could we achieve the same level of success with McCarron that we've had with Dalton, for less money?

(09-11-2017, 11:06 AM)BMK Wrote: I do believe Dalton has got to be feeling his seat getting a little warm, even if it's self-imposed. Let's consider:

1.The Bengals have an option or an 'out' in Dalton's contract after this season that would only cost them 2.4 mil in dead cap.

2. The Bengals REFUSED to shop or trade McCarron, even though they may have benefitted in other areas by doing so.

I'm not saying the two are related,  but who knows if the front office hasn't asked themselves....could we achieve the same level of success with McCarron that we've had with Dalton, for less money?

There's the stamp of approval on that happening.....lol

(09-11-2017, 10:51 AM)Wyche Wrote: It reminds me of the days when we had a largely immobile QB in Palmer, and we let him get pummeled with a shoddy unit up front.  If you KNOW your QB can't move, or is shaky under pressure.....why don't you do EVERYTHING in your power to assure as minimal pressure as possible gets to them instead of saying "we don't value those positions"?

I don't disagree with that sentiment. However, sometimes a QB who is shell shocked from taking hits is just broken. David Carr was a good QB he simply got beat into submission in Houston. At this point I wonder if Andy is focused too much on the perception he is going to get hit that even when he has time he is off.

(09-11-2017, 10:51 AM)Wyche Wrote: It reminds me of the days when we had a largely immobile QB in Palmer, and we let him get pummeled with a shoddy unit up front.  If you KNOW your QB can't move, or is shaky under pressure.....why don't you do EVERYTHING in your power to assure as minimal pressure as possible gets to them instead of saying "we don't value those positions"?

That would cost money!

The big hole in our strategy is we draft positions to replace future free agents...and I've posted how the hit rate of a 1st Round Pick becoming a starter one day is 50%. Well the hole in that strategy is that when the guy fails, they play him anyways instead of upgrading the position in free agency.

(09-11-2017, 11:40 AM)Au165 Wrote: I don't disagree with that sentiment. However, sometimes a QB who is shell shocked from taking hits is just broken. David Carr was a good QB he simply got beat into submission in Houston. At this point I wonder if Andy is focused too much on the perception he is going to get hit that even when he has time he is off.

That's a fair point as well.....time will tell, I guess.

Dalton is an above average QB that if you give him time and weapons can be good. I'd go as far as to call him a Game Manager Plus. He's more capable than a Game Manager in my mind, but he's not that star QB that's going to throw for 400 yards to win a game.

Put pressure on him and he makes mistakes.

He's kind of the modern day rich mans Jon Kitna.

(09-11-2017, 01:19 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dalton is an above average QB that if you give him time and weapons can be good. I'd go as far as to call him a Game Manager Plus. He's more capable than a Game Manager in my mind, but he's not that star QB that's going to throw for 400 yards to win a game.

Put pressure on him and he makes mistakes.

He's kind of the modern day rich mans Jon Kitna.

I think your synopsis is spot on.  I keep going back to organizational failure.  You KNOW your guy struggles with pressure.....it goes back to his scouting report as ochocincos noted earlier.....(you still haven't coached that part of his game up) and yet, you let this happen to his o line.  As bad as Og has looked, they HAD to know he would tank again this season.  You lost Whit, make a trade, sign a FA, do SOMETHING, FFS.  I just don't get this way of thinking......unless you really don't care about winning above and beyond all else.  

(09-11-2017, 10:06 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Dropped passes? The only one I even remember was Core getting his fingertips on a ball Andy overthrew. Who else dropped a good catchable ball? 

Well, I remember Lafell having one bounce off his leg as Dalton was about to get killed.  There were several drops, and the one Core dropped was a bomb that he got both hands on, not the overthrow. 

(09-11-2017, 10:29 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The new HC thing is tricky. Marvin absolutely needs to go.

But, we're rebuilding and Mike Brown and management is comfortable working with Marvin. IF they hire a new HC, they'll have to 'train' that guy to work under the constraints they put in place.

I'm not so sure that Bengals management wants to go through that.

They are not comfortable with Marvin or they would have extended him.  This is his last year, if they continue to suck rhinoceros balls.  I would imagine Paulie G would get the HC spot and he would be bringing in a new OC.  

If this team continues to lose and play poorly and clearly won't be making the playoffs then why not give AJ a shot?

Like someone already said ... Dalton is somewhere around the 15th best QB in the league. He's solid. He's not a bad QB but he is clearly not someone who is going to put this team on his back and take them to the promise land. He's just not that guy. We're 7 years in right now, and we would have seen it.

I saw enough from AJ in 2015 to be willing to give the kid a shot.

(09-11-2017, 04:49 PM)ZWP Wrote: If this team continues to lose and play poorly and clearly won't be making the playoffs then why not give AJ a shot?

Like someone already said ... Dalton is somewhere around the 15th best QB in the league. He's solid. He's not a bad QB but he is clearly not someone who is going to put this team on his back and take them to the promise land. He's just not that guy. We're 7 years in right now, and we would have seen it.

I saw enough from AJ in 2015 to be willing to give the kid a shot.

Yeah I think that's become pretty obvious at this point. While Dalton is not bad...he's not the guy to overcome the 26+ years of adversity and lead this team to the promised land. It's the same thing with Marvin.

Winning 1 playoff game isn't some mythical mountain to climb. EVERY single team in the NFL has won one since we last have.

To win here, you have to overcome the organization though...We'd likely need an Aaron Rodgers to do that.